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Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVI: It's All Happening

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Mac n Gs said:
Still really intrigued to see why we made the move to open up an expansion protection spot on D. Could be as simple as keeping B Smith, or it could be a trade.

This week will be fun.
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It'd be a little weird to get Smith signed though, no? They could just wait to sign him until after the draft and not have to use a protection spot on him.

Perhaps they're a little higher on Holden than we think, but I think they're going to bring in a D that needs to be protected. They might be able to poach one for a song because they don't have to wire up some complicated deal where a lot of pieces and cap is involved. 1st and a prospect for Dumba, then recoup the pick with a Stepan trade? I thought I read an article a few days ago about the Wild wanting to get back into the first round badly.
 
Trxjw said:
It'd be a little weird to get Smith signed though, no? They could just wait to sign him until after the draft and not have to use a protection spot on him.

Perhaps they're a little higher on Holden than we think, but I think they're going to bring in a D that needs to be protected. They might be able to poach one for a song because they don't have to wire up some complicated deal where a lot of pieces and cap is involved. 1st and a prospect for Dumba, then recoup the pick with a Stepan trade? I thought I read an article a few days ago about the Wild wanting to get back into the first round badly.
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I would hope that Gorton can at least grab someone like Beaulieu for a very small cost before expansion if others aren't moving (Dumba, Brodin, Demers, Pysyk, Petrovic, etc)
 
jas said:
Yeah, I'm not paying a premium price for a player the Wild can lose for nothing.
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I don't think a 1st is a premium price. I think most would be excited to get a player of his caliber at that spot, and while there's value in getting a player on an ELC, Dumba is only 22. Plus you have to consider that there will be a number of teams in on him.

That being said, in my mind it would hinge on getting another 1st back in a different deal.
 
Anthony5967 said:
Stepan for Ryan Ellis deal. NSH had Fish as their 1 when Jo went down. That wasn't winning a Cup. Protect Ellis and Grabs.
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The problem with Ellis is that he only has 2 years left on his contract. He'll be great for those 2 years at only a 2.5 mil cap hit, but how much will he want and how many years will he want on his next contract? If he were an RFA and we were signing him to a 6 or 7 year deal this summer, that would be good, as it would take him to 32/33. Signing him as a UFA until he is 34/35 is a little worrisome. The AAV will be higher and there is more of a chance he will break down before the contract ends. Now, if he would sign for something like 4-4.5 mil x 5 years, I'd be on board with that.

I would ideally like to get someone who is a bit younger, that we can lock up on an RFA contract long term until his early 30s. For example Trouba. He will be 24 next year. Sign him for 7 or even 8 years, that only takes him to 31/32. We keep him for 6 or 7 years and then trade him before he declines for the next Trouba.
 
NYR Viper said:
I would hope that Gorton can at least grab someone like Beaulieu for a very small cost before expansion if others aren't moving (Dumba, Brodin, Demers, Pysyk, Petrovic, etc)
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Isn't Beaulieu kind of a mess though? Plus, where does he fit unless the Rangers move one of Staal, Skjei, or McDonagh?
 
Trxjw said:
Isn't Beaulieu kind of a mess though? Plus, where does he fit unless the Rangers move one of Staal, Skjei, or McDonagh?
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Yes he is although the tools are there. Like I said, he would be the type of guy a team may not want to lose for nothing, but may not cost much.

I am still hopeful Staal is gone...
 
i make a legit offer to minny :

derek stepan plus ryan graves for matt dumba and Alex tuch or luke kunin. either of those guys would instantly become our top forward prospect. we get our young righty man and a talented forward kid.

i dont offer a 1st at all in that deal.

ryan graves seems to have dropped with the addition of bereglazov and pionk. plus we have zboro waiting.

not interested in any deal for galchenyuk if it involves a 1st round pick as he's not a center and he's clueless away from the puck. he's a winger and i prefer buchy and vesey get those minutes,

im 100% ok with doing something like this up the middle when we break camp

mika
hayes
oscar
nieves or f/a checking centerman with some sandpaper.

sounds like theres a chance we dont resign brendan smith- he wants to get paid, and if thats true, it opens up the possibility the the right side of the defense and the top 4 looks like this.

27/dumba
76/shatty

im good with that.

3 things

i think the time to move on stepan is now. he's gonna become very expensive and hell be locked in going forward and what i saw at the end of the season and the playoffs scare me. if he slows down even a little bit more, he's toast. the brassard deal seems like a template now for gortons vision.

matt dumba is NOT perfect but he's soon to be 23 and skates like the wind. he has a cannon for a shot and plays with some snarl. he would add alot to this defense and certainly is mobile, dependable and can play huge minutes.

i think gorton has a vision that shattenkirk makes us better immediately. so much so, that he's willing to pass on smith to add the offense thats shatty brings. improving the pp point is #1 priority.

if smith leaves, that says to me that shatty is 100% coming here.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Beaulieu reminds me of John Moore
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Eh, I think Beaulieu has a bit more skill than Moore did. I think it's an attitude thing with Beaulieu. He had a bad season last year and still had 28 points in 74 games. Moore has never had over 22 in 63 (last year with Devils).

Beaulieu will also drop the gloves if he needs to (couple of fights last year) and he plays a chippy game from the back end.

Again, I'm not saying it has to be Beaulieu, but a player like him where a team isn't exactly super high on him but they may not want to just lose them for nothing. Find a happy medium and add some cheap depth (ala Holden last year)
 
offdacrossbar said:
i think the time to move on stepan is now. he's gonna become very expensive
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He's got the same deal for the next four seasons.... So. We're trading him now to avoid re-signing him in four years?

Trading Stepan for the sake of trading Stepan is dumb. Doing Minnesota any favors is also dumb. Call up MN and say give us Dumba and Tuch and we'll give you Stepan. Minnesota has to make a deal. If they don't want to make that one, tell them to find another club, or enjoy losing Dumba for free. Thing is, how many other clubs have an open expansion slot like the Rangers do? Slim pickins for MIN.

Worst case scenario, we keep Derek Stepan.

Solid spot for NYR.

Although, come to think of it, with Koivu and Staal, Stepan doesn't even fit on MIN. So. Does this conversation even make sense?
 
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offdacrossbar said:
i make a legit offer to minny :

derek stepan plus ryan graves for matt dumba and Alex tuch or luke kunin. either of those guys would instantly become our top forward prospect. we get our young righty man and a talented forward kid.

i dont offer a 1st at all in that deal.

ryan graves seems to have dropped with the addition of bereglazov and pionk. plus we have zboro waiting.

not interested in any deal for galchenyuk if it involves a 1st round pick as he's not a center and he's clueless away from the puck. he's a winger and i prefer buchy and vesey get those minutes,

im 100% ok with doing something like this up the middle when we break camp

mika
hayes
oscar
nieves or f/a checking centerman with some sandpaper.

sounds like theres a chance we dont resign brendan smith- he wants to get paid, and if thats true, it opens up the possibility the the right side of the defense and the top 4 looks like this.

27/dumba
76/shatty

im good with that.

3 things

i think the time to move on stepan is now. he's gonna become very expensive and hell be locked in going forward and what i saw at the end of the season and the playoffs scare me. if he slows down even a little bit more, he's toast. the brassard deal seems like a template now for gortons vision.

matt dumba is NOT perfect but he's soon to be 23 and skates like the wind. he has a cannon for a shot and plays with some snarl. he would add alot to this defense and certainly is mobile, dependable and can play huge minutes.

i think gorton has a vision that shattenkirk makes us better immediately. so much so, that he's willing to pass on smith to add the offense thats shatty brings. improving the pp point is #1 priority.

if smith leaves, that says to me that shatty is 100% coming here.
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I just don't see how Dumba is worth Stepan especially considering the Expansion Draft coming up. Now Dumba + Kunin/Tuch may be too much but I don't see the Rangers moving Graves. He will be needed in the near future. 30 points in 76 games in the AHL on a HORRIBLE team plus he brings a nice edge to his game the team needs more of
 
silverfish said:
He's got the same deal for the next four seasons.... So. We're trading him now to avoid re-signing him in four years?

Trading Stepan for the sake of trading Stepan is dumb. Doing Minnesota any favors is also dumb. Call up MN and say give us Dumba and Tuch and we'll give you Stepan. Minnesota has to make a deal. If they don't want to make that one, tell them to find another club, or enjoy losing Dumba for free.

Worst case scenario, we keep Derek Stepan.

Solid spot for NYR.
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expensive ala rick nash. all players are measured on a basis of production vs cost.

i see stepan production slipping rather than improving. his deal is fair based on the AAV but for his production going forward, which imo, will begin to trend downward- the time to move on him is now.

plus he'll have restrictions. well be stuck.
 
silverfish said:
He's got the same deal for the next four seasons.... So. We're trading him now to avoid re-signing him in four years?

Trading Stepan for the sake of trading Stepan is dumb. Doing Minnesota any favors is also dumb. Call up MN and say give us Dumba and Tuch and we'll give you Stepan. Minnesota has to make a deal. If they don't want to make that one, tell them to find another club, or enjoy losing Dumba for free. Thing is, how many other clubs have an open expansion slot like the Rangers do? Slim pickins for MIN.

Worst case scenario, we keep Derek Stepan.

Solid spot for NYR.
Click to expand...

The other thing we don't know is if Vegas has interest in Stepan. if they do and the conversations have been had, Gorton may know that Vegas would select Dumba and he could get a better deal from them after expansion. In which case it's up to Minnesota to call the Rangers bluff and possibly lose him for nothing AND not get Stepan
 
silverfish said:
He's got the same deal for the next four seasons.... So. We're trading him now to avoid re-signing him in four years?

Trading Stepan for the sake of trading Stepan is dumb. Doing Minnesota any favors is also dumb. Call up MN and say give us Dumba and Tuch and we'll give you Stepan. Minnesota has to make a deal. If they don't want to make that one, tell them to find another club, or enjoy losing Dumba for free. Thing is, how many other clubs have an open expansion slot like the Rangers do? Slim pickins for MIN.

Worst case scenario, we keep Derek Stepan.

Solid spot for NYR.
Click to expand...

Spot on. That open protection spot is a valuable asset, as is Srepan. I do not understand why our fanbase is willing to give up the leverage the Rangers have in both instances.
 
offdacrossbar said:
expensive ala rick nash. all players are measured on a basis of production vs cost.

i see stepan production slipping rather than improving. his deal is fair based on the AAV but for his production going forward, which imo, will begin to trend downward- the time to move on him is now.

plus he'll have restrictions. well be stuck.
Click to expand...

I don't see Stepan slipping at all. His price goes down every time the cap goes up. He has full restrictions for two years (27, 28) and then modified restrictions for two years (29, 30). They're not hugely inhibiting.

The only bad thing about the Stepan contract is that he's UFA at age 30.

NYR Viper said:
The other thing we don't know is if Vegas has interest in Stepan. if they do and the conversations have been had, Gorton may know that Vegas would select Dumba and he could get a better deal from them after expansion. In which case it's up to Minnesota to call the Rangers bluff and possibly lose him for nothing AND not get Stepan
Click to expand...

This is a very good point.
 
NYR Viper said:
I just don't see how Dumba is worth Stepan especially considering the Expansion Draft coming up. Now Dumba + Kunin/Tuch may be too much but I don't see the Rangers moving Graves. He will be needed in the near future. 30 points in 76 games in the AHL on a HORRIBLE team plus he brings a nice edge to his game the team needs more of
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if i can turn stepan into dumba and graves into alex tuch im all over that.

im just not confident that derek stepan is the horse to hitch your wagon to when you've got mika and hayes there that can play the 1 and 2 C.

im a skating/speed guy. big time. and derek has neither. im sorry, he scares me.

matt dumba has always been an iterating player. loved him in his draft year.

he checks alot of boxes and seems like a gorton guy.

graves to me is a nice prospect but where will he play ?
 
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