Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXIX: Countdown to the draft (and the other draft)

[Boris Zubov]

They are nowhere even close to being able to compete.

Agreed. The only thing they are competing for is reaching the cap floor.

 

[JT Kreider]

They already have Seguin and Spezza as their top 2 centers, doubt they want their 3rd line center making 6.5

They are already paying Eakin just under $4 million but they've been trying to dump him for awhile now. The $2.5 million or whatever the difference is of cap hit is worth the massive upgrade from Eakin to Step.

 

[JT Kreider]

Agreed. The only thing they are competing for is reaching the cap floor.

If they don't start trying to improve and convince OEL to sign long term, they may never be ready to compete ever again.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If they don't start trying to improve and convince OEL to sign long term, they may never be ready to compete ever again.

They'll be in a new city before they're ready to compete.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

They are already paying Eakin just under $4 million but they've been trying to dump him for awhile now. The $2.5 million or whatever the difference is of cap hit is worth the massive upgrade from Eakin to Step.

Their immediate need is the wings and d, not C

 

[JT Kreider]

Their immediate need is the wings and d, not C

And the Habs are desperate for a center but they just traded their most valuable asset for a winger. Because Drouin was as good as it was going to get for them in terms of scoring upside.

Stepan is probably the best player available outside of the Ducks and Wild defenseman that Vegas is getting in the ED.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

And the Habs are desperate for a center but they just traded their most valuable asset for a winger. Because Drouin was as good as it was going to get for them in terms of scoring upside.

Stepan is probably the best player available outside of the Ducks and Wild defenseman that Vegas is getting in the ED.

Not sure what the Habs have to do with the Stars. Also, Drouin also doesn't make 6.5.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I was looking at the players available in the expansion draft, and I think that if Las Vegas wants to be competitive right away, they could be.

I think they should take a mixture of picks, and also keep some of the players available to them. They don't need every good player available. I'd think like 3 or 4 1st's is good enough, and then they can also field a competitive team.

 

[Synergy27]

I was looking at the players available in the expansion draft, and I think that if Las Vegas wants to be competitive right away, they could be.

I think they should take a mixture of picks, and also keep some of the players available to them. They don't need every good player available. I'd think like 3 or 4 1st's is good enough, and then they can also field a competitive team.

It's going to be really upsetting if the SC gets paraded down the LV strip before the Canyon of Heroes.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I was looking at the players available in the expansion draft, and I think that if Las Vegas wants to be competitive right away, they could be.

I think they should take a mixture of picks, and also keep some of the players available to them. They don't need every good player available. I'd think like 3 or 4 1st's is good enough, and then they can also field a competitive team.

Also got to look at the players available and their contracts..
There's a lot of big names that are like 10 days away from being ufas

 

[bsbarmchairgm]

Is Stepan to Vegas a possibility?

Could something around Stepan for Manson, Kruger, and Dano be an option?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Could something around Stepan for Manson, Kruger, and Dano be an option?

That would be a nice return if Vegas picks Manson. With the talks about a deal being in place to protect both Manson and Vatanen, I'm really curious what that package is. Two 1st round picks, Theodore and prospect would be something that makes me seriously consider it as a GM. Given that the offer is to not pick 2 players, it has to be huge

 

[Ola]

I like the template but i think Stepan holds a bit less value then those players, so tone it down a bit and i think ur ball park.
Definitely agree that we need a young roster player as the main piece though.

Who knows, but the writing was on the wall for Jeff Carter. He was very questionable when traded, and his horrible performance for CBJ was definitely not unexpected. Prolly would have kept icing horrible performances had he not been traded to LA.

 

[bsbarmchairgm]

I suppose we'll find out in a few days about the Anaheim offer to Vegas, and that we thus can forget about Manson/Vatanen.

Some other more or less interesting exposed signed/RFA RHDs are Matt Dumba, Jason Demers, Colin Miller, Dylan DeMelo, Andrej Sustr, Trevor van Riemsdyk, Ville Pokka, Ryan Sproul, Alex Biega, .....

Brock Nelson is exposed as well.

 

[Ola]

I like that Dvorak came through the London program. His fitness is very high.

Strome has one of the highest hockey IQ's out there.... same with the hands... but is he athletic enough is the question? He doesn't play a power game, and doesn't have top end wheels.

Kid's super smart, and can break down d-zone structures. Unlike Kreider who has a very high IQ off the ice, but is rather limited on the ice, DStrome is smart on the ice.

Boppob can chime in, but methinks they value Keller a lot more than Strome.

Strome wasn't a Chayka guy either.

Sounds a lot like how people spoke about Tavaras when he came into the league..

Nah, the problem Dylan Strome is that he needs so much room on the ice to function well. A lot of people are down on him, and I think the biggest reason for that is because like when you watch him in the WJCs against better teams he was not only not a factor, he was a negative factor at times too. When he didn't get room on the ice he completely vanished and his unit struggled a lot.

When it comes to a player like Strome -- I do however think that there is a risk to become too negative if you get what I mean. He has a little potential to become a corner stone player. He has a bit more potential to become like a Jeff Carter type, ie more of a role player than someone that leads a line. And he could end up like becoming a Steve Bernier. Someone who destroyed juniors but just didn't found the ice in the NHL to be an offensive player. From a 3rd overall point of view, I am down on him. And I think he could fall deep and more or less bust, there is a substantial risk for that. But he still has a good upside, he is not like Virtanen for example.

 

[Ola]

"That was the bigger surprise yesterday, because we were expecting this mass redistribution of players that really didn't happen, which we were really happy about," McPhee said.

https://www.nhl.com/goldenknights/news/mcphee-has-yet-to-pull-the-trigger-on-any-trades/c-289977058

NHL GMs are just doing a horrible job. McPhee was scared ****less for teams screwing him. Many teams have protection issues and many teams have a bunch of worthless players taking up protected spots -- McPhee of course feared the GMs would take advantage of this. Nobody did.

I have said it for a long time, there is no excuses for how many GMs run their teams. The Cap excuse is just a bad excuse, teams have always had budgets. They are extremely risk advers and so many GMs have zero incentives to make the proper moves even if they include a little risk. I think Gorton is doing his best but he has nobody to dance with.

Where is media in all this?

 

[Ola]

Something could be off with this comment, but if its not its a huge bomb. Not sure why it hasn't been reported more:

Vegas Golden Knights‏Verifierat konto @GoldenKnights 13 timför 13 timmar sedan
Mer
George McPhee says he has not yet pulled the trigger on any trades.

"We don't have anything," McPhee said. "We have lots of things lined up. But until we see everything, we don't have anything."

""We're going to make all of our final decisions late because we don't know what kind of calls we're going to get today. They may be different than the calls the same manager may have different things to talk about today, now that we're in the expansion window, than he did the last few days."

https://www.nhl.com/goldenknights/news/mcphee-has-yet-to-pull-the-trigger-on-any-trades/c-289977058

Extremely shrewd move by GMGM if this is the case. Gorton should be on him about Manson.

 

[Ola]

Shipashov plus Soderberg, Kreuger and Lindberg are roughly the best centers available for Vegas. Derek Stepan should make a lot of sense for them. Shipashov takes the PP and offensive shifts. Derek Stepan is very experienced and capable of playing tough minutes in this league. Vegas will get a lot of players that are very good and valuable, but also very few players used to playing bigger roles. Stepan corrects that flaw.

If GMGM still is playing GMs against each other -- and will take the best offer, or keep someone not protected if it suits him best -- Gorton should be all over him to make a Stepan for Manson trade.

From 2012:
https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/read-george-mcphee-talks-about-dealing-with-glen-sather/149637444

Washington Capitals GM George McPhee had this to say about his dealings with Rangers President and GM Glen Sather:

"Glen is easy to have a conversation with but hard to make a trade with because he really grinds it out. I've done just one trade with him, for [Jaromir] Jagr, and it took forever."

"I don't think anybody tried to fleece me off the top, but I remembered Glen Sather saying to me, 'Now, listen. I'm going to try to pick your pocket and you are going to try and pick mine.' He was real frank about it."

Slats and GMGM has been colleagues for 20 years in this league. There are many younger GMs in this league. Slats will have good access to GMGM.

 

[bsbarmchairgm]

Let's keep our fingers crossed Gorton can work it all out...

Perhaps something around Stepan to Vegas for Manson, and Vegas selects Klein in expansion?

Or should we try to get Kruger as well?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I really hope Stepan is not traded, this place will go into meltdown, i think these packages you guys are making up here are pretty ridiculous overpayments and not realistic at all.

I really hope i'm wrong but i can't see it.

Stepan is a great player but i think his value isn't really that close to ROR, Carter or Staal, shave off a full asset from those trade and you might be ball park, maybe a bit more.

Edit: Feel free to disagree with me, i just really think we need to temper our expectations a bit here.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Who knows, but the writing was on the wall for Jeff Carter. He was very questionable when traded, and his horrible performance for CBJ was definitely not unexpected. Prolly would have kept icing horrible performances had he not been traded to LA.

Sure, but Carter also had 3 30+ goal seasons, 3 60+ point seasons, 1 ~PPG season and Rocket Richard upside.

I love Stepan, but he's a ~20 goal scorer, Carter was a ~35 goal scorer, goals really do matter A LOT in trade value.

 

[bsbarmchairgm]

Better with Hayes to Vegas for Manson, and Vegas selects Raanta in expansion?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Better with Hayes to Vegas for Manson, and Vegas selects Raanta in expansion?

That would be absolutely amazing.

Then say "Sorry bud" to Shattenkirk, re-sign Smith, promote Skjei to PP1 over McDonagh (or add a 3rd pairing PPQB somewhere), grab a good bargain bin C and we're pretty close to set, add some depth players to fight it out at camp.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sure, but Carter also had 3 30+ goal seasons, 3 60+ point seasons, 1 ~PPG season and Rocket Richard upside.

I love Stepan, but he's a ~20 goal scorer, Carter was a ~35 goal scorer, goals really do matter A LOT in trade value.

*all these stats are 5-on-5, the last 4 years prior to being traded.

Carter (2007-2011) and Stepan (2013-2017)

GF%
Carter 56.3
Stepan 59.7

P/60
Carter 2.03
Stepan 1.97

CF%
Carter 49.8
Stepan 50.0

CF% RelTM
Carter 0.9
Stepan 0.7

I have not gone through all the stats yet, but that's pretty damn close

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

*all these stats are 5-on-5, the last 4 years prior to being traded.

Carter (2007-2011) and Stepan (2013-2017)

GF%
Carter 56.3
Stepan 59.7

P/60
Carter 2.03
Stepan 1.97

CF%
Carter 49.8
Stepan 50.0

CF% RelTM
Carter 0.9
Stepan 0.7

I have not gone through all the stats yet, but that's pretty damn close

Sure, but goals matter A LOT and Carter was seen as a potential Rocket Richard winner at that point in time, he had (atleast perceived) upside that Stepan doesn't have.

I'm a stats guy, so i see your point, but the stats doesn't usually applyt to actual trade value, as you well know.

Also, Carter on the PP >>>>>>>>> Stepan on the PP and Stepans PKing and defensive abilities 5v5 does not weigh up for that, not even close sadly.

Edit: All Sits in the same years you looked at;

G/60
Carter: 1.41
Stepan: 0.77

P/60
Carter: 2.58
Stepan: 2.39