Would it be too much to also ask for Gorton to remove some of AV's remaining toys such as Holden, Staal, Kampfer...?
A 3rd pairing PPQB, such as Clendening?
Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXIX: Countdown to the draft (and the other draft)
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Would it be too much to also ask for Gorton to remove some of AV's remaining toys such as Holden, Staal, Kampfer...?
A 3rd pairing PPQB, such as Clendening?
Staal won't go anywhere this summer, i'm resigned to this. Holden should be traded, Kampfer will be here as 7/8 D.
And yes, but we need to find a new one since AV hates Clendo for whatever dumb reason.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Yes, offense important. But defense is just as important to me. Maybe it's because I played in a defensive role when I was playing rugby. I look at that to judge players as well. It's one of the reasons I have defended Nash and Fast (when he was bumped up to the top-6). I focus a bit more on defense than some, maybe.
Stepan is a different type of player and needs to be judged as such.
I get the point your trying to make, but NHL GMs value goals more then almost anything else, definitely more then some slightly better defence from a C.
Carter being seen as a potential Rocket Richard winner with 3 30+ goal seasons and 1 45+ goal season matters so much to his trade value, and i think you know that
Amazing Kreiderman
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I get the point your trying to make, but NHL GMs value goals more then almost anything else, definitely more then some slightly better defence from a C.
Carter being seen as a potential Rocket Richard winner with 3 30+ goal seasons and 1 45+ goal season matters so much to his trade value, and i think you know that
It's okay. I can see your point as well. We just disagree.
We can still be friends though
Amazing Kreiderman
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UAGoalieGuy
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I'm assuming we won't know any of,the details on the side deals until after the picks are announced on Wednesday night.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I'm still hoping that there's some back room plan in place to get the Staal band back together in Vegas. Think of the marketing opportunities!
Amazing Kreiderman
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All 4 Staals to Vegas and both Hayes to Vegas, Pierre will only do Vegas games
Reilly and Brendan Smith
Cal and Ryan O'Reilly
Dylan, Ryan and Matt Strome
Michael and Mark Stone
James and Trevor van Riemsdyk
Endless possibilities.
Let's not overrate the legitimately well regarded Manson.
No for Hayes.
No 1:1 for Stepan, though certainly as part of package
Amazing Kreiderman
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Are you kidding me? If we can get Manson for Hayes, we can count ourselves lucky. Manson is the more valuable asset. If that offer is on the table, GMJG should take it and run
Haha seriously. I'll say it again, people are extremely over valuing him. The ARZ GM isn't going to get fleeced. (this isnt MTL we are talking about)
Yeah... At the same time, Yotes fanbase is severely undervaluing Stepan. The truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in the middle.
This is ridiculous, if we can get Manson for Hayes 1 for 1 we take it and run, i'd add quite a bit to get it done.
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Amazing Kreiderman
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Haha seriously. I'll say it again, people are extremely over valuing him. The ARZ GM isn't going to get fleeced. (this isnt MTL we are talking about
There's a difference between saying Stepan is worth so and so, and saying we should only trade him for so and so.
This isn't a team trying to get rid of a player. The Rangers can keep Stepan and go to war with the same group of forwards, and improved defense. With Klein retiring, I wouldn't be surprised if our team would look a bit like this:
Nash-Stepan-Zuccarello
Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Miller-Hayes-Vesey
Grabner-Lindberg-Fast
McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Smith
Staal-Bereglazov
Holden
Lundqvist
FA goalie to replace Raanta
There is no harm in turning down proposals and keeping Stepan. I don't think Gorton trades him UNLESS it's an overpayment, which is what I've been saying all along.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
NYR Viper
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Cater when traded was more of a hybrid from what I remember. He was playing both center and wing because of his defensive deficiencies. He was all offense, no defense.
Well, what we really don't know is how much of an asset or a burden Stepan becomes when the clauses kick in. If you think that having him on your roster in the last two years of his contract is a problem, then yes, you MIGHT be getting rid of a player now (and take the loss) in order to prevent being ties down later.
We don't know how the league will look in three years... And maybe the Rangers simply want options, and don't want to be tied down.
NYR Viper
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Stepan is 27 as of a few days ago. Shattenkirk is 28. If the Rangers turn Stepan into the type of deals we've been discussing AND sign Shattenkirk for the same contract Stepan got, 6 years at 6.5m, that's a huge net add for this organization.
Same premise as when they traded Gomez and signed Gaborik.
Same premise as when they traded Gomez and signed Gaborik.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Preferably, we need someone who can play both the PP and PK like Jacob Trouba, but thats not happening. So if we can only pick one or the other, we need a RH PP QB. I don't see the big purpose Manson serves. He'd be an upgrade, but Vatanen would help more. This is the defense I'd like to see at this point.
McDonagh-Bereglazov
Skjei-Vatanen
Staal-Graves
Holden
Thats still not ideal, only 1 righty and no real top pairing RHD, but would have to do for now, as we aren't getting Trouba. I think Vatanen will bounce back offensively next year, and if Skjei can stay in the 30 point range, that could give us three 30 point defensemen. There's also a chance Graves has a big points season. Would much rather trade for Vatanen than sign Shattenkirk to that terrible contract.
And then someone will mention Smith, but I don't really see the purpose. Again, he's an upgrade on at least one or two of those defensemen like Manson would be, but he would require a big contract, and unless we are getting rid of Staal, I don't really see the point in another older defenseman on a big contract. We'll just have to do with Staal instead of Smith. Gotta get the younger defensemen incorporated here the next year. That should've always been the plan. I'll always take younger defensemen with something to prove in the NHL over average older defensemen who require big contracts.
Eventually, we could transition to this defense after the upcoming season. Thats a pretty well balanced defense, although it might be one defensive guy light.
McDonagh-Bereglazov
Skjei-Vatanen
Graves-Pionk
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here is something for those who didn't want to trade Skjei, but said value would never be higher; a parallel w/Zib.
1. SJS 1st = 19OA + Bergman for Nash
2 McD at half, Zuc + Halverson + 19OA + NYR 2017 1st = 21OA for Sam Reinhart + EKane + 8OA, + Buf 2017 and 2018 2nds
3 handshake deal w/LVGK pt1, McPhee agrees to select Puempel; continues later
4. 'yotes want Cs, pref righty, + net help; Stepan + Zib + Holden + Raanta for Cychrun, (four) AZ 1sts for 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020; 35OA this year; throw-in Hickey and our choice of one other nice prospect not named Strome
5. Montreal wants size/tufness badly. EKane + 35OA for Galy, Mont 2017 1st [mid-20s?] + a 2018 2nd [they own several]
7. part 2, deal w/McPhee-LGK: AZ 2018 2nd + Montreal 2017 1st + expiring Klein if he does not retire for Dumba, payment on what we owe for taking Puempel, handshake we get first dibs at Manson if, which is unlikely, they acquire and choose to flip; and for having to take Marc Staal at 50% IF we are unable to send him to FL or elsewhere [would be effective first day Staal's NMC dissolves and he can be moved].
8. Hanzal 1 yr only as a stop gap. Ditto, Shatty
results:
Kreider-Reinhart-Miller
Hanzal-Hayes-Vesey
Gropp - Galy - Buch
Nieves - Lindy - Fast
Skjei - Chychrun
Smith - Shatenkirk
Beargloves - Dumba
Graves - Bergman
Lots of picks to restock = future restored
currently fields a competitive team
recovers salary to max deal Miller, etc so we volume discount annual salary
See what we have in Galy, build on his talent or move the hot potato
....enjoy
1. SJS 1st = 19OA + Bergman for Nash
2 McD at half, Zuc + Halverson + 19OA + NYR 2017 1st = 21OA for Sam Reinhart + EKane + 8OA, + Buf 2017 and 2018 2nds
3 handshake deal w/LVGK pt1, McPhee agrees to select Puempel; continues later
4. 'yotes want Cs, pref righty, + net help; Stepan + Zib + Holden + Raanta for Cychrun, (four) AZ 1sts for 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020; 35OA this year; throw-in Hickey and our choice of one other nice prospect not named Strome
5. Montreal wants size/tufness badly. EKane + 35OA for Galy, Mont 2017 1st [mid-20s?] + a 2018 2nd [they own several]
7. part 2, deal w/McPhee-LGK: AZ 2018 2nd + Montreal 2017 1st + expiring Klein if he does not retire for Dumba, payment on what we owe for taking Puempel, handshake we get first dibs at Manson if, which is unlikely, they acquire and choose to flip; and for having to take Marc Staal at 50% IF we are unable to send him to FL or elsewhere [would be effective first day Staal's NMC dissolves and he can be moved].
8. Hanzal 1 yr only as a stop gap. Ditto, Shatty
results:
Kreider-Reinhart-Miller
Hanzal-Hayes-Vesey
Gropp - Galy - Buch
Nieves - Lindy - Fast
Skjei - Chychrun
Smith - Shatenkirk
Beargloves - Dumba
Graves - Bergman
Lots of picks to restock = future restored
currently fields a competitive team
recovers salary to max deal Miller, etc so we volume discount annual salary
See what we have in Galy, build on his talent or move the hot potato
....enjoy
Manson is a stud, but reg sized
Hayes has far more upside, size, reach, better speed in stride. Can't teach that.
Besides we need Hayes when Stepan goes
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
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