Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXIX: Countdown to the draft (and the other draft)

[Ola]

I doubt they would have soured on Strome after he went back and had a fantastic year developmentally, and is now living and training in the valley in preparation for trying to make the team. It's true that Strome is a bit of a stepchild to Tippett, he wanted that pick traded for Dougie Hamilton. But after not putting in the work in previous summers, he put in some major work and continues to do so. He's a tremendously valuable prospect, as is Keller. Domi is probably the face of the franchise. There'd be no bigger 1-2 dick punch than pushing Doan out and then trading Domi. Dvorak is Tippett's favorite youngster out of the lot. I don't think any of them are reasonable targets.

I know Stepan would "hurt", that's why we're talking about 7 overall as a starting point, plus lots of useful other things, including good young players. Good players get traded for top 10 picks. This draft lacks high end generational talent but the top 10 is as strong as ever. I also really don't see someone like Crouse as off limits, if you want him. But the trade has to be good for both teams and align with their goals. I see Rangers fans fabricating reasons (some completely absurd) as to why an unreasonable ask will be palatable for a GM that doesn't really make a habit of overpaying for anything. I think your position is that Stepan won't be moved under any circumstances unless it's an extreme overpay, and I don't agree.

What is the situation at RD if Klein retires?

I think you make very well written posts. But you miss the point here. Derek Stepan is just 4-5 years older than Max Domi, and there are no guarantee that the later ever will become as good or achieve as much as Stepan has. Although I hands down would take a 22 y/o Domi over a 22 y/o Stepan, its not guaranteed that would be a good choice and the prediction must be that they will call it quits with perfectly comparable careers.

Max Domi is of course off the table for Stepan, like you say. But put together a package you would accept for Max Domi, then maybe adjust it slightly and you will come closer to what it takes to get a perfectly serviceable No 1 center or great 2nd line center that is 27 y/o.

Would you take the 3rd overall pick and a good young player or two for Max Domi? Of course not.

 

[JC704]

I got REALLY bored tonight (no work in the AM), so I did this. I would be massively satisfied with this.

Notes:
- Derek Stepan wasn't traded (gosh darn it).
- However, J.T. Miller (sigh), Nick Holden and Antti Raanta were. I also tried my hardest to make every trade as realistic as possible.
- This assumes Vegas selects Jesper Fast; once they actually make their decision, I'll change this up again for fun.
- Went with 4 X $4.75 million for Mika Zibanejad (RFA) and 6 X $6.25 million for Kevin Shattenkirk in Free Agency. I let Brendan Smith walk, effectively making last season's trade for Shattenkirk instead. Tried to make the signings as realistic as possible. Kadri got $4.8 million per season, so I went close to that figure.
- Placed Kevin Klein on LTIR, his salary cap figure is gone if he "retires," so this assumes that rumor isn't just smoke.

https://capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/363449

P.S. -- CapFriendly is dangerously addicting, not good for your mental health.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think the team would be more inclined to move Perlini or Duclair over Fischer, given that RHS is a huge need. There's also multiple later picks, Murphy, DeAngelo, Merkley, Dineen, Wood, useful roster players like Martinook and Rieder, future picks.

Hickey's rights were acquired for the Rangers, I feel. I think the Rangers could get a really damn good aggregate value package but not one that includes one of the absolute core young players. Crouse/Perlini/Duclair is probably as high as AZ would go.

Yeah, and I'd be more willing to move Tambellini over Stepan.

I'd be happy to take Perlini+ or Duclair+, but that won't be in a deal for Stepan. That's more a Hayes-type return.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If Lawson Crouse is the best roster asset we get back in a Stepan trade then i'll scratch my eyes out, he's awful.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Everyone is getting worked up, and watch Stepan won't even be traded

And I'd be perfectly fine with that. Aside from an overpayment, I don't see a reason for us to trade Stepan

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I got REALLY bored tonight (no work in the AM), so I did this. I would be massively satisfied with this.

Notes:
- Derek Stepan wasn't traded (gosh darn it).
- However, J.T. Miller (sigh), Nick Holden and Antti Raanta were. I also tried my hardest to make every trade as realistic as possible.
- This assumes Vegas selects Jesper Fast; once they actually make their decision, I'll change this up again for fun.
- Went with 4 X $4.75 million for Mika Zibanejad (RFA) and 6 X $6.25 million for Kevin Shattenkirk in Free Agency. I let Brendan Smith walk, effectively making last season's trade for Shattenkirk instead. Tried to make the signings as realistic as possible. Kadri got $4.8 million per season, so I went close to that figure.
- Placed Kevin Klein on LTIR, his salary cap figure is gone if he "retires," so this assumes that rumor isn't just smoke.

https://capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/363449

P.S. -- CapFriendly is dangerously addicting, not good for your mental health.

Sign Brendan Smith, move Miller down to 3RD and it doesn't look bad.

If Lawson Crouse is the best roster asset we get back in a Stepan trade then i'll scratch my eyes out, he's awful.

Yeah, I doubt Gorton will trade Stepan for anything less than an overpayment.

If Brassard (a 2C) returns a 5-year younger similar player + a 2nd rounder I expect Stepan (a 1C) to return either a package of 2 premium assets and a secondary asset (7OA, Dvorak, Hickey) or a player younger than Stepan with upside to be as good and a 2nd (Domi, 35OA)

 

[GAGLine]

It seems like people are forgetting that there are other teams interested in Stepan. If Arizona won't give up what Gorton wants, maybe one of the others will. If not, then we'll keep Stepan and go to plan B, whatever that is.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It seems like people are forgetting that there are other teams interested in Stepan. If Arizona won't give up what Gorton wants, maybe one of the others will. If not, then we'll keep Stepan and go to plan B, whatever that is.

Yeah, funny how supply and demand works. Gorton has his price. All it takes is one team to meet it.

 

[Vitto79]

Would the coyotes take Klein and his contract in case he doesn't retire ?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It seems like people are forgetting that there are other teams interested in Stepan. If Arizona won't give up what Gorton wants, maybe one of the others will. If not, then we'll keep Stepan and go to plan B, whatever that is.

That has been my message from the start and some people won't understand. The reason people want 7OA + Dvorak + Hickey is because that is what it will take to trade away a prime 1C with 4 years left on his deal. This isn't a cap dump or a team desperate to get rid of a player.

Yeah, funny how supply and demand works. Gorton hs his price. All it ties is one team to meet it.

I would love a bidding war between Arizona and Dallas, for instance.

Would the coyotes take Klein and his contract in case he doesn't retire ?

I wouldn't be surprised if they do. They can even buy him out and have a cap-hit for a player not on the team.

 

[bernmeister]

So XX notes Strome is finally putting in the work, but is unwanted stepchild to Tippett. Still, high risk/reward.

Here is a package deal in 2 parts with precursor scenario, also 2 parts.

precursor -
Strome to LVGK
for
6OA + side deal after draft...
{Dumba for Wood}
ADDITIONAL FACET OF THIS DEAL
LV agrees to select _____________(AZ ideal choice)
and
LV agrees to select Matt Puempel as NYR selected in the exp draft [for which NY owes AZ]

This works for LV, cause Strome plays now, does not require development; and has 3OA cache status.


Package phase 1: (immediately)
Stepan + Tambellini
for
Chychrun + Hickey

Package phase 2: (right after draft)
what NY owes on the precursor
7OA
Dumba
+ 35OA

for
Raanta + Holden + Klein [in case he does not retire]
+ NYR 2017 1st [=21OA] + NYR 2018 1st
+ Buchnevich

-------------------------------
'yotes keep nearly all their Fs, add Buch
add D + G
add 2 picks 'middle' firsts this year and next for early 1st + 2nd this yr

Rangers
get Chychrun for 1RD
get Dumba
maybe sign Shatty 1 yr stop gap only
other deals also, but this addresses immediate needs

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

When you propose some of these trades ask yourselves, "would Gorton let my 1-2 center go for 'tis return"?

The logical conclusion on most proposals is no deal. GMJG will want a big return IF he makes a deal. While I still think the chances of a deal are small, it is not contract driven. It would be return driven.

Ah a voice of reason from someone that would have a better idea then most of us posters on this site!

Thank you!

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This works for LV, cause Strome plays now, does not require development; and has 3OA cache status.

I will only respond to this part because the rest of the post is the usual trade-tsunami stuff.

Draft position means NOTHING once a player is drafted. For instance: Nobody cares Aho was a 2nd rounder and he won't be traded based on the fact that he was a 2nd rounder.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Ah a voice of reason from someone that would have a better idea then most of us posters on this site!

Thank you!

Bobbop just confirms what some of us have been saying. If Gorton trades Stepan it's because he got his price. There are multiple suitors. That tilts this process in Gorton's favor. The price of Stepan has already been established, and it's not what Coyote fans want to dump on the Rangers.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Bobbop just confirms what some of us have been saying. If Gorton trades Stepan it's because he got his price. There are multiple suitors. That tilts this process in Gorton's favor. The price of Stepan has already been established, and it's not what Coyote fans want to dump on the Rangers.

Exactly. I've been saying this for days now.

Stepan is not actively shopped. Gorton is simply listening to offers. We do not HAVE to trade him, which means Gorton only agrees to an offer if it is worth it. In a vacuum, 7OA, Dvorak and Fischer is too much for a guy like Stepan, but there are more factors involved here.

- Arizona needs a player like Stepan
- 1st line centers aren't available often
- Chayka has already said in a conference call he wants a center and the team lacks RH shots
- The cap floor problem for Arizona might come into play as well

Pair that with Gorton trading Brassard+6th for Zibanejad+2nd and it isn't that far-fetched that the price for which Gorton is willing to part ways with Stepan is higher than what Stepan is worth at the moment. If we trade Stepan to Arizona, I was 7OA+Dvorak+prospect. I've said that from the beginning. Is that too much? Maybe. If it is, I rather keep Stepan and go to war with the forwards we have, sign 2 of Franson/Smith/Shattenkirk and improve our defense, which was the real issue last season anyway.

All things considered (The market, quality of the player, cap hit, term) it's not that ridiculous to want a package similar to what Carter got when he was traded by Philly

 

[Ghost of jas]

What if GMGM offers Dumba and the Isles and CBJ's 1st rounders? Chayka isn't giung to be able to put a meager offer on the table. Carolina could put Lindholm, their 1st and a good prospect. Montreal could offer Galchenyuk and their 1st. And then there's the Wild. Gorton has the leverage here.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What if GMGM offers Dumba and the Isles and CBJ's 1st rounders? Chayka isn't giung to be able to put a meager offer on the table. Carolina could put Lindholm, their 1st and a good prospect. Montreal could offer Galchenyuk and their 1st. And then there's the Wild. Gorton has the leverage here.

Yes, exactly. There's a market for a 27-year old, 55-point, 2-way, 1st line center with 4-years on his contract at 6.5m

 

[E-Train]

What if GMGM offers Dumba and the Isles and CBJ's 1st rounders? Chayka isn't giung to be able to put a meager offer on the table. Carolina could put Lindholm, their 1st and a good prospect. Montreal could offer Galchenyuk and their 1st. And then there's the Wild. Gorton has the leverage here.

All good options. One of the top guys could fall to the Carolina pick like a Pettersson. I wouldn't mind a deal like that.

 

[Trxjw]

There are definitely more reasons for Arizona to trade for Stepan than there are reasons for the Rangers to trade him. So I think it's fair to say Gorton has a high price in mind. However, I don't think it's quite as high as some folks hope it will be. It won't be peanuts, but it won't be the fleecing some imagine.

As for the #7 pick from last year, keep in mind that most considered it a stronger class. The deal supposedly got pulled on the draft floor, which indicates they were looking for a specific player to fall to #7. Most of those players have cracked the NHL already, or are about to. Tkachuk made an immediate impact and I think he was the guy they wanted. I'm not sure there are any guys outside of the top-2 who are going to be NHL ready next season, so that seriously devalues the pick compared to last year.

 

[Tawnos]

And I'd be perfectly fine with that. Aside from an overpayment, I don't see a reason for us to trade Stepan

I don't think Gorton is looking for an overpayment. Not that he wouldn't take one. He's looking for a fair deal.

Dvorak, 7OA and Hickey is not an overpayment. It's a fair deal.

 

[NYR Viper]

Can someone give me a scouting report on:

Fischer

Hickey

I know next to nothing about either of them

 

[GAGLine]

There are definitely more reasons for Arizona to trade for Stepan than there are reasons for the Rangers to trade him. So I think it's fair to say Gorton has a high price in mind. However, I don't think it's quite as high as some folks hope it will be. It won't be peanuts, but it won't be the fleecing some imagine.

As for the #7 pick from last year, keep in mind that most considered it a stronger class. The deal supposedly got pulled on the draft floor, which indicates they were looking for a specific player to fall to #7. Most of those players have cracked the NHL already, or are about to. Tkachuk made an immediate impact and I think he was the guy they wanted. I'm not sure there are any guys outside of the top-2 who are going to be NHL ready next season, so that seriously devalues the pick compared to last year.

Which likely means that Gorton is leaning more toward getting back at least one player who can play immediately. If the return ended up being Dvorak + #23, I think that would be good. Arizona gets vet leadership and experience, a right-handed shot and closer to the cap floor. Dvorak may well surpass what Stepan brings to the table, but right now, Stepan is the better all around player.

If you look at the Brass/Zib trade, this is on par with that. Dvorak isn't as established as Zib was, so the Rangers are getting a higher pick.

 

[Ghost of jas]

There are definitely more reasons for Arizona to trade for Stepan than there are reasons for the Rangers to trade him. So I think it's fair to say Gorton has a high price in mind. However, I don't think it's quite as high as some folks hope it will be. It won't be peanuts, but it won't be the fleecing some imagine.

As for the #7 pick from last year, keep in mind that most considered it a stronger class. The deal supposedly got pulled on the draft floor, which indicates they were looking for a specific player to fall to #7. Most of those players have cracked the NHL already, or are about to. Tkachuk made an immediate impact and I think he was the guy they wanted. I'm not sure there are any guys outside of the top-2 who are going to be NHL ready next season, so that seriously devalues the pick compared to last year.

So, that would mean the other assets in the deal would have to have more value. And, frankly, if the Rangers have a player in mind, I don't think it matters if that player can step in right away. I think Gorton is looking to make the best deal regardless of how immediate the impact on the NHL roster is.

 

[Fugazy]

It seems like people are forgetting that there are other teams interested in Stepan. If Arizona won't give up what Gorton wants, maybe one of the others will. If not, then we'll keep Stepan and go to plan B, whatever that is.

Gorton should operate in a position of power when it comes to Stepan. Actively look for deals but have enough restraint to pull back and keep him in the right offer isn't on the table.

 

[Trxjw]

Which likely means that Gorton is leaning more toward getting back at least one player who can play immediately. If the return ended up being Dvorak + #23, I think that would be good. Arizona gets vet leadership and experience, a right-handed shot and closer to the cap floor. Dvorak may well surpass what Stepan brings to the table, but right now, Stepan is the better all around player.

If you look at the Brass/Zib trade, this is on par with that. Dvorak isn't as established as Zib was, so the Rangers are getting a higher pick.

I think that's the hangup. I see all of the reasons Step is beneficial to the Yotes, but how beneficial is he if they deal a guy like Dvorak who is as proven commodity? Strome could use some time in the AHL, but if they deal Dvorak for Stepan, he's almost forced to step in right away. It makes more sense for them to deal the unproven Strome, than the somewhat proven Dvorak. It's the opposite for the Rangers. Hence why I think that's the hangup in the deal. Could very well be Strome and #7 or Dvorak and #23 as the base of each option, with another piece added in.

The Brassard deal had some other considerations though. They wanted a lefty who could create plays, as opposed to a righty who preferred to shoot. They also had Turris already and didn't need to insulate younger players.