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Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXIX: Countdown to the draft (and the other draft)

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NYR Viper said:
I hear what you're saying but you must know that trading for a player like Stepan is going to hurt a little. In the same way losing Stepan is going to hurt the Rangers. Both sides rearrange their chairs.

I am thinking Arizona management has possibly soured on someone in that group you listed even if just a little bit and are looking to get a longer term asset in Stepan to help augment their young players.
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I doubt they would have soured on Strome after he went back and had a fantastic year developmentally, and is now living and training in the valley in preparation for trying to make the team. It's true that Strome is a bit of a stepchild to Tippett, he wanted that pick traded for Dougie Hamilton. But after not putting in the work in previous summers, he put in some major work and continues to do so. He's a tremendously valuable prospect, as is Keller. Domi is probably the face of the franchise. There'd be no bigger 1-2 dick punch than pushing Doan out and then trading Domi. Dvorak is Tippett's favorite youngster out of the lot. I don't think any of them are reasonable targets.

I know Stepan would "hurt", that's why we're talking about 7 overall as a starting point, plus lots of useful other things, including good young players. Good players get traded for top 10 picks. This draft lacks high end generational talent but the top 10 is as strong as ever. I also really don't see someone like Crouse as off limits, if you want him. But the trade has to be good for both teams and align with their goals. I see Rangers fans fabricating reasons (some completely absurd) as to why an unreasonable ask will be palatable for a GM that doesn't really make a habit of overpaying for anything. I think your position is that Stepan won't be moved under any circumstances unless it's an extreme overpay, and I don't agree.

What is the situation at RD if Klein retires?
 
Geoff Gorden said:
I will say this as kindly as i possibly can.

You're delusional if you think that even comes close and that is a good aggregate package.

Arizona will have to give up at least 2 pieces that they really don't want to give up, probably 3. The Rangers are not going to trade their most consistent forward for a bunch secondary and tertiary pieces.
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I don't know how many times it can be posted, but the value of a player of Stepan's caliber has already been established. It's going to be the 7th pick, and probably Strome, with either Crouse, Perlini or DeAngelo as the 3rd piece. And if Rantaa's in the deal, then the 35 pick is likely coming back, since his value is likely a 2nd round pick. That's not a superstar package. A superstar package is four assets.
 
Coyotes don't have a RHD to trade the Rangers for Stepan.

If 7 overall is in the deal you would have to think Makar or Liljegren would be in frame.
 
Alluckks said:
They could only dream. That franchise swims in sewage runoff.
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I think you're still being kind. If they don't want to put up significant assets... fine. Toil in the bowels of the NHL standings until the franchise is relocated elsewhere. Garbage like Crouse won't cut it. We aren't doing a quantity for quality deal.
 
XX said:
I doubt they would have soured on Strome after he went back and had a fantastic year developmentally, and is now living and training in the valley in preparation for trying to make the team. It's true that Strome is a bit of a stepchild to Tippett, he wanted that pick traded for Dougie Hamilton. But after not putting in the work in previous summers, he put in some major work and continues to do so. He's a tremendously valuable prospect, as is Keller. Domi is probably the face of the franchise. There'd be no bigger 1-2 dick punch than pushing Doan out and then trading Domi. Dvorak is Tippett's favorite youngster out of the lot. I don't think any of them are reasonable targets.

I know Stepan would "hurt", that's why we're talking about 7 overall as a starting point, plus lots of useful other things, including good young players. Good players get traded for top 10 picks. This draft lacks high end generational talent but the top 10 is as strong as ever. I also really don't see someone like Crouse as off limits, if you want him. But the trade has to be good for both teams and align with their goals. I see Rangers fans fabricating reasons (some completely absurd) as to why an unreasonable ask will be palatable for a GM that doesn't really make a habit of overpaying for anything. I think your position is that Stepan won't be moved under any circumstances unless it's an extreme overpay, and I don't agree.

What is the situation at RD if Klein retires?
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I think the general sentiment is that Gorton will be bidding for the services of Brendan Smith for sure. He played almost exclusively RD while here and looked really good. Holden played both right and left last year. He shows more offensive potency from the right. Bereglazov the young Russian the team signed from the KHL played RD last year in the KHL. The team has options.

I hear everything you're saying about Strome, Domi, Dvorak and Keller. If I'm Chayka Keller is 100% untouchable. That kid is going to be special.

Let's assume for a minute Gorton agreed to your package of secondary pieces, Stepan becomes the teams #1C. Dvorak is the #2. Cousins was just acquired to be the 4C it appears. Holland, Burmistrov and Dauphin are centers. One would assume they are the 3C and none of these guys are old by any means. How many centers can a team have?
 
Gardner McKay said:
I think you're still being kind. If they don't want to put up significant assets... fine. Toil in the bowels of the NHL standings until the franchise is relocated elsewhere. Garbage like Crouse won't cut it. We aren't doing a quantity for quality deal.
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Let's not wish awful things like that. If that happens I have no where to watch the Rangers on the cheap. :laugh:
 
NYR Viper said:
Let's assume for a minute Gorton agreed to your package of secondary pieces, Stepan becomes the teams #1C. Dvorak is the #2. Cousins was just acquired to be the 4C it appears. Holland, Burmistrov and Dauphin are centers. One would assume they are the 3C and none of these guys are old by any means. How many centers can a team have?
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Holland won't be back, Dauphin can go to the minors (no loss if he is claimed), and Burmistrov plays all 3 forward positions but might get picked by Vegas. It's not really an issue. Keller isn't a C, he is being groomed for the wing. Strome would be the 2/3C in your scenario or in Tucson and Richardson would (if he isn't picked) be the 4C with Cousins sliding to the wing.

I ask about RD because I think that's the angle here. The Coyotes have DeAngelo and Murphy, as well as Kyle Wood, plus lots of picks and other prospects. If you miss out on Smith and Klein retires, that kind of puts the team in a semi-awkward spot, right? Even though Holden can switch. DeAngelo is on his ELC so he's cheap, Murphy is signed at a nice AAV.

How far apart are we at 7+DeAngelo+Hickey's rights?
 
XX said:
Holland won't be back, Dauphin can go to the minors (no loss if he is claimed), and Burmistrov plays all 3 forward positions but might get picked by Vegas. It's not really an issue. Keller isn't a C, he is being groomed for the wing. Strome would be the 2/3C in your scenario or in Tucson and Richardson would (if he isn't picked) be the 4C with Cousins sliding to the wing.

I ask about RD because I think that's the angle here. The Coyotes have DeAngelo and Murphy, as well as Kyle Wood, plus lots of picks and other prospects. If you miss out on Smith and Klein retires, that kind of puts the team in a semi-awkward spot, right? Even though Holden can switch. DeAngelo is on his ELC so he's cheap, Murphy is signed at a nice AAV.

How far apart are we at 7+DeAngelo+Hickey's rights?
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Very.

It's not that hard to understand...we have absolutely no reason to move Stepan short of an overpayment. If we don't get something worthwhile he's going to stay where he's at.
 
XX said:
Holland won't be back, Dauphin can go to the minors (no loss if he is claimed), and Burmistrov plays all 3 forward positions but might get picked by Vegas. It's not really an issue. Keller isn't a C, he is being groomed for the wing. Strome would be the 2/3C in your scenario or in Tucson and Richardson would (if he isn't picked) be the 4C with Cousins sliding to the wing.

I ask about RD because I think that's the angle here. The Coyotes have DeAngelo and Murphy, as well as Kyle Wood, plus lots of picks and other prospects. If you miss out on Smith and Klein retires, that kind of puts the team in a semi-awkward spot, right? Even though Holden can switch. DeAngelo is on his ELC so he's cheap, Murphy is signed at a nice AAV.

How far apart are we at 7+DeAngelo+Hickey's rights?
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I'm not sure DeAngelo is the piece Gorton would want as the main centerpiece coming back. RD is for sure the glaring hole in the system.

What about
7th + Fischer + Hickey + ARI 2nd

And I lose the question to the other Rangers fans, would that be an acceptable deal? Fischer is one of the guys I don't know much about besides everyone talking him up. Know the others we are discussing.
 
XX said:
Holland won't be back, Dauphin can go to the minors (no loss if he is claimed), and Burmistrov plays all 3 forward positions but might get picked by Vegas. It's not really an issue. Keller isn't a C, he is being groomed for the wing. Strome would be the 2/3C in your scenario or in Tucson and Richardson would (if he isn't picked) be the 4C with Cousins sliding to the wing.

I ask about RD because I think that's the angle here. The Coyotes have DeAngelo and Murphy, as well as Kyle Wood, plus lots of picks and other prospects. If you miss out on Smith and Klein retires, that kind of puts the team in a semi-awkward spot, right? Even though Holden can switch. DeAngelo is on his ELC so he's cheap, Murphy is signed at a nice AAV.

How far apart are we at 7+DeAngelo+Hickey's rights?
Click to expand...

Replace Hickey's rights with one of the pieces you've deemed untouchable and you're probably pretty close.

I don't think the Rangers would be interested in DeAngelo. Heck of a talent, but the dude is the dick head of all dick heads. Maybe if Sather were still calling the shots.
 
XX said:
Holland won't be back, Dauphin can go to the minors (no loss if he is claimed), and Burmistrov plays all 3 forward positions but might get picked by Vegas. It's not really an issue. Keller isn't a C, he is being groomed for the wing. Strome would be the 2/3C in your scenario or in Tucson and Richardson would (if he isn't picked) be the 4C with Cousins sliding to the wing.

I ask about RD because I think that's the angle here. The Coyotes have DeAngelo and Murphy, as well as Kyle Wood, plus lots of picks and other prospects. If you miss out on Smith and Klein retires, that kind of puts the team in a semi-awkward spot, right? Even though Holden can switch. DeAngelo is on his ELC so he's cheap, Murphy is signed at a nice AAV.

How far apart are we at 7+DeAngelo+Hickey's rights?
Click to expand...

7th+ Dvorak + DeAngelo + Hickey for Stepan + 21.
 
I actually agree that it is likely a stretch to get a top 4 player and #7.

I think Strome/Dvorak, #23, and a lesser piece (Murphy, DeAngelo, maybe Fischer) is realistic.

And I think Strome is the most likely candidate. I like Dvorak a lot more, so I expect AZ feels the same. Add Stepan without really touching the NHL roster = huge win for AZ. NYR get their "re-tool."
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
I actually agree that it is likely a stretch to get a top 4 player and #7.

I think Strome/Dvorak, #23, and a lesser piece (Murphy, DeAngelo, maybe Fischer) is realistic.

And I think Strome is the most likely candidate. I like Dvorak a lot more, so I expect AZ feels the same. Add Stepan without really touching the NHL roster = huge win for AZ. NYR get their "re-tool."
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Add in Raanta and Arizona maybe adds their 2nd in 2017 and maybe Hickey's rights
 
I think the #7 has to be involved. Looking back at past deals the #7 + Strome seems like where it starts. The 3rd piece is harder to determine as generally it's a NHL piece but Arizona doesn't have much in that way to give. Does Gorton receive a player like Fischer or does he settle for maybe the rights to Hickey with a future pick coming back IF he doesn't sign.
 
HatTrick Swayze said:
I'm not in love with it by any means. Which is why I think it's close(r) to fair.

Can definitely see the NYR having a hard on for Strome. I'm skeptical, but I get why they would do it.
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We wouldn't be looking for fair, we'd be looking for something that would make moving Stepan worthwhile. What does a "fair" offer do for the Rangers, it doesn't make us any better.
 
New York RKY said:
We wouldn't be looking for fair, we'd be looking for something that would make moving Stepan worthwhile. What does a "fair" offer do for the Rangers, it doesn't make us any better.
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I could see the NYR believing in Strome as a 1C. I also think there is more pressure to get a deal done by 6/30 than some are admitting. I also think AZ is the best combination of assets and desire.
 
NYR Viper said:
I think the #7 has to be involved. Looking back at past deals the #7 + Strome seems like where it starts. The 3rd piece is harder to determine as generally it's a NHL piece but Arizona doesn't have much in that way to give. Does Gorton receive a player like Fischer or does he settle for maybe the rights to Hickey with a future pick coming back IF he doesn't sign.
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I think the NYR will value NHL readiness over potential. I think they will go for a better prospect who is closer (DeAngelo/Fischer) or an NHL player (Murphy) over #7.

If they get DeAngelo and Strome both are possibly on the roster in October. #7, not so much. I don't think they will go as all in on futures as we would like.
 
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