Player Discussion Ridly Greig (LW) 28th Overall

[God Says No]

What? lol why? He is 22 and is progressing each year. That makes no sense. He was already a late bloomer and a big guy. His development curve was always going to be longer. He is leading Belleville in scoring. Man this board needs some patience.

Not really. He'll be a pro for 3 years in the Sens org. I think next camp will be his make it or break it with the Sens. If he doesn't make it, I see him being traded and for sure waived.

BTW, it looks like the org is not too enamoured with him as Chartier, Luccini, Greig and others have been called up before him. I think they wanted him to improve his skating, but he hasn't improved enough.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Not really. He'll be a pro for 3 years in the Sens org. I think next camp will be his make it or break it with the Sens. If he doesn't make it, I see him being traded and for sure waived.

BTW, it looks like the org is not too enamoured with him as Chartier, Luccini, Greig and others have been called up before him. I think they wanted him to improve his skating, but he hasn't improved enough.

Which is funny, because they keep throwing Watson out there who moves like he forgot to take off his skate guards...

 

[God Says No]

Which is funny, because they keep throwing Watson out there who moves like he forgot to take off his skate guards...

Uh, Watson is a much better skater than Sokolov. Which tells you something about Sokolov's skating.

 

[Micklebot]

BTW, it looks like the org is not too enamoured with him as Chartier, Luccini, Greig and others have been called up before him. I think they wanted him to improve his skating, but he hasn't improved enough.

Mann was saying after Chartier and Luccini got called up, Sokolov has really stepped up his game. I suspect if they need a winter, he's next ATM. Greig is up as a center so probably doesn't factor in to the teams feelings on Sokolov

 

[DaveMatthew]

Uh, Watson is a much better skater than Sokolov. Which tells you something about Sokolov's skating.

Not even close. Sokolov is not a great skater, but at this point in their careers, he is without a doubt stronger than Watson.

Sokolov hasn't been called up because both DJ and Dorion are having a consensual hallucination that this team is "still in the race" and want the bottom 6 to be made up of veteran grinders. They think it's 1999.

And quite frankly, this management team and coaching staff not having a player in "high regard" can be taken with a grain of salt. They've proven over and over to be out of their depth and have little idea of the skills needed to win games in the NHL.

 

[bert]

Not really. He'll be a pro for 3 years in the Sens org. I think next camp will be his make it or break it with the Sens. If he doesn't make it, I see him being traded and for sure waived.

BTW, it looks like the org is not too enamoured with him as Chartier, Luccini, Greig and others have been called up before him. I think they wanted him to improve his skating, but he hasn't improved enough.

I think that would be very stupid considering the player type and development curve. They are developing him properly. I dont think its about being enamored with Chartier or Luccini. I dont know how you group Grieg in with them they are 27 and 26 years old. Same with Sokolov he is 22. Just giving up on an asset when you have invested 4 years in him without giving him a shot when he is years away from his peak would be so irresponsible. Especially considering how little the sens have coming down the pipe. He is a ppg this year.

 

[God Says No]

Mann was saying after Chartier and Luccini got called up, Sokolov has really stepped up his game. I suspect if they need a winter, he's next ATM. Greig is up as a center so probably doesn't factor in to the teams feelings on Sokolov

Yes and no. Gambrell, Giroux and Brassard can play C. So Soko could have easily been called up if he was seen in high regard.

 

[bert]

Not even close. Sokolov is not a great skater, but at this point in their careers, he is without a doubt stronger than Watson.

Sokolov hasn't been called up because both DJ and Dorion are having a consensual hallucination that this team is "still in the race" and want the bottom 6 to be made up of veteran grinders.

With plenty of room for improvement too. Why does everyone think these big guys are done developing. Countless examples of them taking longer. Literally in this organization...

Yes and no. Gambrell, Giroux and Brassard can play C. So Soko could have easily been called up if he was seen in high regard.

Those guys are playing second line really... Brassard cant skate well enough to play center. Giroux either. you are reaching.

 

[Sens Vader]

Why the hell would Sokolov be playing LW?

Because he can play LW

 

[Micklebot]

Yes and no. Gambrell, Giroux and Brassard can play C. So Soko could have easily been called up if he was seen in high regard.

Gambrell is a 4th liner, at best. They clearly wanted an offensive center to replace Norris, they know Brassard doesn't work and they have landed that Pinto can't cut it in the top 6 yet.
If they haven't tried Giroux at center yet then they have no intention of ever doing so,

So they could easily play guys in positions they know they don't work in, but they thought well enough not to do that, and just called up a deserving player that plays the position they needed to fill.

Greig is a deserving call up, he's easily our best prospect, him getting called up ahead of Sokolov has zero bearing on the teams thoughts on Sokolov, you can like more than one prospect.

 

[Bileur]

This is the primary issue of having a lame-duck coach and GM down the stretch.

The next 38 games should feature JBD, Thomson and Sokolov so we can see what we have in those guys. Instead, we'll keep playing Zaitsev, Hamonic, Holden, Watson and Brassard.

Hopefully in 13 games when Brass hits 1000 the sens will start rotating in young guys. Doubt it happens before then.

 

[God Says No]

With plenty of room for improvement too. Why does everyone think these big guys are done developing. Countless examples of them taking longer. Literally in this organization...


Those guys are playing second line really... Brassard cant skate well enough to play center. Giroux either. you are reaching.

Am I? They've played C at different times during the year so not sure if that's considered reaching.

Sokolov hasn't been called up because both DJ and Dorion are having a consensual hallucination that this team is "still in the race" and want the bottom 6 to be made up of veteran grinders. They think it's 1999.

Well, Chartier and Luccini played in the bottom six this year and are not considered grinders. Soooo, that kinda blows your theory out of water.

As for Watson's skating, I guess it's a he said she said as we won't agree on this without them having 1v1 race. I still maintain Watson is a better skater in term of first step, quickness, and edges. Maybe Soko touches him in straight ahead skating, but Watson is much better in every other aspect.

I think that would be very stupid considering the player type and development curve. They are developing him properly. I dont think its about being enamored with Chartier or Luccini. I dont know how you group Grieg in with them they are 27 and 26 years old. Same with Sokolov he is 22. Just giving up on an asset when you have invested 4 years in him without giving him a shot when he is years away from his peak would be so irresponsible. Especially considering how little the sens have coming down the pipe. He is a ppg this year.

I grouped them as I grouped all the callups this year. The point was that he hasn't been called up even once, when there were numerous opportunities to do so. If they were higher on him, you would have seen him play already this year. I'm just trying to read the tea leaves. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it sure seems like even though he's ppg in the AHL, he still isn't seen improved enough to make impact in the bigs.

 

[God Says No]

Gambrell is a 4th liner, at best. They clearly wanted an offensive center to replace Norris, they know Brassard doesn't work and they have landed that Pinto can't cut it in the top 6 yet.
If they haven't tried Giroux at center yet then they have no intention of ever doing so,

So they could easily play guys in positions they know they don't work in, but they thought well enough not to do that, and just called up a deserving player that plays the position they needed to fill.

Greig is a deserving call up, he's easily our best prospect, him getting called up ahead of Sokolov has zero bearing on the teams thoughts on Sokolov, you can like more than one prospect.

Yip, in this instance they could have looked at purely at positional need and a specific one in terms of being offensive. But looking at the season up to this point, they could have put those guys at C and called up Soko and they didn't.

 

[Micklebot]

Yip, in this instance they could have looked at purely at positional need and a specific one in terms of being offensive. But looking at the season up to this point, they could have put those guys at C and called up Soko and they didn't.

They have 4 healthy RW, and an opening at center, there's no need to read the tea leaves, they called up a center and not a RW because that's the opening they needed to fill.

We could play both Brassard and Gambrell and fill the spot at center that way, then just not call up anybody, we could play Brassard at center call someone up to play LW (Greig plays LW too, so that was an option or they could have called up Crookshank or Lodin) or they could needlessly complicate things and call up a RW to play his off side.

 

[God Says No]

They have 4 healthy RW, and an opening at center, there's no need to read the tea leaves, they called up a center and not a RW because that's the opening they needed to fill.

We could play both Brassard and Gambrell and fill the spot at center that way, then just not call up anybody, we could play Brassard at center call someone up to play LW (Greig plays LW too, so that was an option or they could have called up Crookshank or Lodin) or they could needlessly complicate things and call up a RW to play his off side.

Yes? Didn't I agree with you in this instance of the callup?

Yip, in this instance they could have looked at purely at positional need and a specific one in terms of being offensive.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes? Didn't I agree with you in this instance of the callup?

Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying

But I already mentioned Mann said Sokolov upped his game after the Chartier and Luccini callups, He could have been called up while Joseph was out but at that time he wasn't playing the best. That doesn't mean they've soured on him, it means they were looking for who was going to help them most at that moment.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Well, Chartier and Luccini played in the bottom six this year and are not considered grinders. Soooo, that kinda blows your theory out of water.

Chartier is a 26-year-old who's never scored at a PPG level, or close to it, in the AHL. Lucchini is 27 and has never scored 20+ goals at the AHL level.

Both these guys have grinded out pro careers. They're the definition of grinders. Low talent, high work ethic.

 

[DrEasy]

Not even close. Sokolov is not a great skater, but at this point in their careers, he is without a doubt stronger than Watson.

Sokolov hasn't been called up because both DJ and Dorion are having a consensual hallucination that this team is "still in the race" and want the bottom 6 to be made up of veteran grinders. They think it's 1999.

And quite frankly, this management team and coaching staff not having a player in "high regard" can be taken with a grain of salt. They've proven over and over to be out of their depth and have little idea of the skills needed to win games in the NHL.

Agreed, and I was in agreement with keeping the team as-is for as long as the team was playing well and there was a faint hope for the playoffs, but especially after the loss to Pittsburgh (and probably much earlier than that if we're being realistic) there's no more reason to hang on to our veteran grinders. The loss of Norris seals it, and despite how puzzling this front office's decision-making can be I think even they can see that it is now time to bring up the likes of Sokolov and JBD. Give it a week or two, I think it will happen. They'll probably trade Watson and Hamonic, and healthy-scratch Brassard and Zaitsev to make room.

In a couple of weeks:

Chuck - Stu - Batherson
Cat - Greig - Giroux
Motte - Pinto - Joseph
Kelly - Kastelic - Sokolov <- Sokolov might play on other lines, that's beside the point
Brassard, Gambrell <- scratches; maybe they can get something for Gambrell; Watson gone

Chabot - JBD
Sanderson - Zub <- replaces Hamonic as the steadying D next to Sanderson
Brannstrom - Thomson <- Holden here until Thomson is healthy and has played a few games in Belleville, after that Holden is gone too
Zaitsev <- scratched or Del Zotto'd.

 

[Cosmix]

True. I have a lot of trouble trying to explain things Dorion and DJ do

They are not consistent in their statements. They change their positions often; sometimes due to circumstance, others due to PR priorities and perhaps personal survival.

 

[Cosmix]

Depending the contract he's being offered here he could also just go back home with a guarantee to play in the KHL and make more money

I would not be surprised if Sokolov returns to Russia and plays in the KHL.

Why the hell would Sokolov be playing LW?

Because he is not fast enough at center or right wing?

 

[God Says No]

Chartier is a 26-year-old who's never scored at a PPG level, or close to it, in the AHL. Lucchini is 27 and has never scored 20+ goals at the AHL level.

Both these guys have grinded out pro careers. They're the definition of grinders. Low talent, high work ethic.

I don't think you understand that word.

Grinder (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In ice hockey, a grinder is a player better known for his hard work and checking than his scoring.[1] A grinder is often a player who has limited offensive skills, but is valuable to a hockey team due to physical forechecking skills especially along the boards; for "grinding along the boards".[

I don't think you would call 5'11" 190lbs Chartier or 6'0" 180 Lucchini physical, nor a board player, very defensive, or great in the corners.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying

But I already mentioned Mann said Sokolov upped his game after the Chartier and Luccini callups, He could have been called up while Joseph was out but at that time he wasn't playing the best. That doesn't mean they've soured on him, it means they were looking for who was going to help them most at that moment.

Yip, he wasn't playing up to par the org's expectations. Hence they soured on him and didn't call him up.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I don't think you understand that word.

Grinder (ice hockey) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lol what? That's exactly what Chartier and Lucchini are.

They're veteran pros who've been around the block in the minors. They know what they are and what they're not. They were called up to play a safe and responsible, but unremarkable game. Don't take risks. Keep their shifts short. Move their feet, go north-south, dump it in, chase it, change. Bump someone if you can. Aka: grind. Or as DJ calls it – work. That's what DJ wanted in his bottom 6. He didn't want a 22-year-old offensive player with defensive awareness that needs work who might go out of position trying to score a goal.

I mean, what would you call 26-year-old Rourke Chartier? A playmaker?

He's a grinder. You don't need to bring Lucic physicality to be a grinder. Tyler Motte is a tier-B grinder. Dylan Gambrell and Parker Kelly are tier-C grinders. Rourke Chartier and Jake Lucchini are tier-D grinders.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Anyways, Mann has already said in an interview that he felt that those two absolutely deserved the call up because they were the best players.

While they were gone Soks turned things up a notch apparently which is good news. Maybe it was the fire he needed, maybe it was just increased opportunity or minutes.

Either way, the team from top to bottom seems to have been fine giving a couple of pros a deserving call up.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Probably a dumb question, but has Greig put on any muscle this season? Iirc, that was the one thing this kid really needed (aside from pro experience and general game polishing) to make it at the NHL level. Kid has had a lot of bumps and bruises along the way...I'm getting a bit weary of seeing another young stud end up on on the injured list.

 

[bert]

Am I? They've played C at different times during the year so not sure if that's considered reaching.



Well, Chartier and Luccini played in the bottom six this year and are not considered grinders. Soooo, that kinda blows your theory out of water.

As for Watson's skating, I guess it's a he said she said as we won't agree on this without them having 1v1 race. I still maintain Watson is a better skater in term of first step, quickness, and edges. Maybe Soko touches him in straight ahead skating, but Watson is much better in every other aspect.



I grouped them as I grouped all the callups this year. The point was that he hasn't been called up even once, when there were numerous opportunities to do so. If they were higher on him, you would have seen him play already this year. I'm just trying to read the tea leaves. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it sure seems like even though he's ppg in the AHL, he still isn't seen improved enough to make impact in the bigs.

You're manipulating the conversation that is trying to prove your point. So much of this entire argument is inaccurate.

Watson can't keep up his Edgework is terrible. He is playing because he fights. Sokolov is a better skater.

Lucchini and Chartier are grinders. We're brought up to play that role.

Grieg was brought up to play center on a scoring line. Sokolov is a winger. Brassard was ineffective in that role he doesn't skate well enough. Giroux doesn't skate well enough.

Sokolov will get a chance at some point.