Return for Matthews in a trade

[SOLR]

Because when balancing the probabilities, we have a better chance of winning with this core then we do going back to zero and starting from scratch. Think about the pain of a rebuild and how long that could take and it's no guarantee that even rebuilding would work. Maybe you're looking at 2030 before we get back to winning if they blow it up.

If this was last year I would have said do something like one of the big 2 for Tkachuck. But this year I'm not seeing that type of deal. And I'm not prepared for a full on rebuild.

It's a fallacy because it's not starting from zero at all, it's just trading Matthews and replacing him now and in the near future. You keep Marner, Tavares and Willy.

Now with a player like Dubois, in the near future with a player like Cooley. Of course, Dubois ain't Matthews, but you still get to the playoffs and then the year after you have something like this to start cup competing again (and suddenly you have depth).

Tavares - Dubois - Marner
Knies - Cooley - Willy
Leonard - ROR -

And then eventually Tavares comes off the books and you can sign Cooley, get rid of ROR, sign Leonard etc. Normal turnover, because you have a next generation that can take charge pretty soon.

 

[SOLR]

This won't happen we will sign these players

There is no win in a trade of Mathews.
But
We will have cap space to sign 2 really good players.
Mathews
( 2 )- first rd pks + 2nd + 3rd
Marner
2 mil retained 1 st + 2nd + 3rd
JT 5.5 mil retained won't want to stay here
1st + 2nd

The right gm and coach can build a team

Think Seattle

100% there is a winning potential in a Matthews trade. It's about getting to a new version of the Leafs that competes better in the playoffs, with more depth, more speed.

Depends on what you think Matthews is, I think he's a first-line center. He's had many franchise-status-proofing moments and he's never really grabbed them (playoffs...don't care about regular season stuff). Thus you don't win with a guy that can't elevate on your first line. You keep the players that elevate their game, that's Willy. Marner works long minutes, maybe if the team was deeper he could also elevate since he would have more reasonable minutes. Maybe Marner needs a much more creative, high-IQ center like Cooley?

 

[Sypher04]

This won't happen we will sign these players

There is no win in a trade of Mathews.
But
We will have cap space to sign 2 really good players.
Mathews
( 2 )- first rd pks + 2nd + 3rd
Marner
2 mil retained 1 st + 2nd + 3rd
JT 5.5 mil retained won't want to stay here
1st + 2nd

The right gm and coach can build a team

Think Seattle

We’re not trading our franchise players for a bunch of 1st and 2nds that are improbable to become even half as good.

IF the Leafs entertained moving ONE of these guys, we’re looking for bonafide NHLers coming back, pieces that can help us win both now and in the future

 

[ToneDog]

This won't happen we will sign these players

There is no win in a trade of Mathews.
But
We will have cap space to sign 2 really good players.
Mathews
( 2 )- first rd pks + 2nd + 3rd
Marner
2 mil retained 1 st + 2nd + 3rd
JT 5.5 mil retained won't want to stay here
1st + 2nd

The right gm and coach can build a team

Think Seattle

Those trades put you in a major rebuild and it will take years to get back to seriously competing for a Cup. Add picks for Willie because he won't be needed and the high picks we get for finishing bottom 5 and it could work. Doubt ownership is willing to strip it down to the studs again.

Oh yeah while you are not competing you can retain more money for more assets.

 

[Trapper]

Wow.

You guys realize it can take over a decade to get a no.1 C like Matthews ever again.

His supporting cast is a bunch of losers from the players to the coach to the GM. You guys have no idea what you're doing. Go enjoy the weather, you're losing it trading Matthews.

You do realize that Matthews holds all the cards right?
If he doesn’t want to sign there is nothing you can do.
If we had signed him to 8 years, this wouldn’t be a problem. Who did that?

 

[notbias]

Matthews is a playoff stud in this thread and we are getting a big return now? Wicked!

 

[Sypher04]

You do realize that Matthews holds all the cards right?
If he doesn’t want to sign there is nothing you can do.
If we had signed him to 8 years, this wouldn’t be a problem. Who did that?

Obviously if Matthews indicates he won’t sign that changes things completely. But short of that, trading him would be crazy

 

[notbias]

You do realize that Matthews holds all the cards right?
If he doesn’t want to sign there is nothing you can do.
If we had signed him to 8 years, this wouldn’t be a problem. Who did that?

If we had signed him to an 8 year deal you'd be calling him a playoff choker, complaining we signed him for too long without playoff success, and then complaining about his NMC in his last few years anyway.

Some people just like to complain about something that is standard.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly are now losers? Give me a break.

There are two problems with Matthews;
His playoff performance which goes from .62gpg career to .44gpg
His cost

If he played better in the playoffs, it would be a no brainer to give him 13+ million.
If he wanted mroe support he should take 10-12 and leave a few million on the table (apparently he's playing with losers lmao)

Edmonton proved you can literally have the two best forward and still not win. There are more ways to build a team than to put 40+ million into just a few forwards and the forwards here have proven they can't get it done.

The sad thing is the poverty Islanders have gone further than us WITHOUT Tavares because as I said there are more ways than one to build a team. For that money we'll add a #1D+ top 6 forward or 2 solid 7+ million dollar players who show up in the playoffs.

7 years of failure is enough, all options MUST be on the table, especially when the fault of that failure is 100% on the core. Now they want a RAISE after that failure? Ha ha, go score 60+ and 100+ points elsewhere so you can get eliminated in the 1st round there for 14+ million.

Hes comparable to Pastrnak but he’s a little better and should get more than him.
Pastrnak 1.04 ppg reg season and 1.02 ppg playoffs
Matthews 1.12 ppg reg season and .88 ppg playoffs

However, Matthews is better defensively and has been stuck with the Keefe PP.

If Matthews wants 13 AAV it has to be on an 8 year deal.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

He was getting overpaid as f*** even if dubas was here

5 years 12-13M being reported

Dude isnt worth his current contract at 8 years with his injury concerns and declining play every playoffs

This^.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

They would need a top 6 centre and multiple first round picks and prospects for Matthews.

And a pony!

 

[Americanadian]

I don't think you'd get a lot of traction from the Toronto side on that one.

The premise of getting younger is fine. The Big 4 guy you've selected to move is probably less than ideal. The return is extremely subpar. Saying last year's Hart winner has less value than Hintz, Robertson, Oettinger or Heiskanen alone... I think you need to value your own assets more. Awful.

Do you understand contracts and contract value?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

No thanks to ROR.

Getting sick and tired of these retirement "Club Med" and "All you need is your flip flops to come and play with us!" deals.

Wastin' away again in Margaritaville....

 

[rumman]

This won't happen we will sign these players

There is no win in a trade of Mathews.
But
We will have cap space to sign 2 really good players.
Mathews
( 2 )- first rd pks + 2nd + 3rd
Marner
2 mil retained 1 st + 2nd + 3rd
JT 5.5 mil retained won't want to stay here
1st + 2nd

The right gm and coach can build a team

Think Seattle

No win in handcuffing the team with a bloated contract, no win in losing 34 for nothing. Has anyone considered that maybe 34’s best hockey is behind him? Sign him to a reasonable deal if he wants to stay otherwise get what you can while you can……..

 

[ErnieLeafs]

A competent GM will deal him

Dubas/New GM needed/needs to deal him and not let him f*** us over

The big 4 era is purgatory. The ceiling is a 2nd round exit until JT is gone

Matthews wasnt signed 8 years and we cant wait out JT.

Move Marner+Matthews and kickstart a massive rebuild.

In 3 years we hopefully have Misa + other high end talent and can look to come up again.

You losers deserve to suffer with the Leafs in the tank for eternity. Can’t appreciate *hit. Most talented group we’ve had in Your lifetime, and just throw them away like garbage. I hope for my sake I see a championship some day, but some of you deserve nothing.

Massive rebuild. Holy *uck

 

[Sypher04]

No win in handcuffing the team with a bloated contract, no win in losing 34 for nothing. Has anyone considered that maybe 34’s best hockey is behind him? Sign him to a reasonable deal if he wants to stay otherwise get what you can while you can……..

It’s been discussed. There’s no way to know if it is, and I don’t think you move him based on a what if

 

[Trapper]

If we had signed him to an 8 year deal you'd be calling him a playoff choker, complaining we signed him for too long without playoff success, and then complaining about his NMC in his last few years anyway.

Some people just like to complain about something that is standard.

If I thought that, why would I want to be re-signing him now?
When McDavid and Draisaitl sign for 8, why wouldn’t I want to sign Matthews for 8?
Sorry, you’re wrong.

 

[rumman]

100% there is a winning potential in a Matthews trade. It's about getting to a new version of the Leafs that competes better in the playoffs, with more depth, more speed.

Depends on what you think Matthews is, I think he's a first-line center. He's had many franchise-status-proofing moments and he's never really grabbed them (playoffs...don't care about regular season stuff). Thus you don't win with a guy that can't elevate on your first line. You keep the players that elevate their game, that's Willy. Marner works long minutes, maybe if the team was deeper he could also elevate since he would have more reasonable minutes. Maybe Marner needs a much more creative, high-IQ center like Cooley?

Rather the cap be evenly distributed throughout the line up than wasted on a couple of marquee players who apparently can’t get it done. Yes less flash, but better chance at success. Guess I’m a no name generic kind of guy……..

 

[Donnie740]

We’re not trading our franchise players for a bunch of 1st and 2nds that are improbable to become even half as good.

IF the Leafs entertained moving ONE of these guys, we’re looking for bonafide NHLers coming back, pieces that can help us win both now and in the future

Exactly.

That’d be something that Dubas would pull off and then the Dubas Fan Boi Club would spout about “expected first round draft pick stars” even though their idol was terrible at drafting.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I guess sign it and post date it.. but cant file it until the first..

That is his posturing.. if he is pulling the not negotiating until the first.. then f*** it. Get the three of them in the room.. lay it out there and tell them to get back to you within 24hrs

If they say no or dont respond explore trades.. run the business

Yup.

 

[Sypher04]

Exactly.

That’d be something that Dubas would pull off and then the Dubas Fan Boi Club would spout about “expected first round draft pick stars” even though their idol was terrible at drafting.

Not sure why we’re turning this into a Dubas thing when he clearly would not have blown up our franchise to start a rebuild

 

[rumman]

You losers deserve to suffer with the Leafs in the tank for eternity. Can’t appreciate *hit. Most talented group we’ve had in Your lifetime, and just throw them away like garbage. I hope for my sake I see a championship some day, but some of you deserve nothing.

Massive rebuild. Holy *uck

Well it’s not going to happen with the current line up, five tries, five fails unless your cup is one playoff round, pathetic………

It’s been discussed. There’s no way to know if it is, and I don’t think you move him based on a what if

But you’ll keep him on a what if?

 

[Sypher04]

Well it’s not going to happen with the current line up, five tries, five fails unless your cup is one playoff round, pathetic………


But you’ll keep him on a what if?

The odds of him continuing to be as good as he’s been are better than him not. I mean maybe he doesn’t score 60 again, but I certainly wouldn’t bet against it, and even if he doesn’t, something like scoring 55 is not a meaningful drop

 

[Donnie740]

Not sure why we’re turning this into a Dubas thing when he clearly would not have blown up our franchise to start a rebuild

After years of refusing to move any of the core - - even proclaiming that he’d “stake his career on them” - - Dubas was finally acknowledging last week that maybe it was time to look at changing out some of the core.

Which is another reason why I’m absolutely OVERJOYED that Dubas was fired before he could make any such trade, because everyone saw how badly he got ripped off the last time he traded a core player in Kadri.

 

[rumman]

The odds of him continuing to be as good as he’s been are better than him not. I mean maybe he doesn’t score 60 again, but I certainly wouldn’t bet against it, and even if he doesn’t, something like scoring 55 is not a meaningful drop

It’s not without risks……the wrist, the lack of playoff success, the $$$$$ he’ll be asking for, the term he’ll demand. There’s plenty to consider both + and -, this decision isn’t a slam dunk imo…….