Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well unless you expect the 3rd line to outscore the opposition all by themselves its been part of the problem but not all of the problem.

I'll buy that. Actually, for most of this year they were pretty good. Lowry had his best season scoring.

 

[surixon]

Its always interesting to get a broader perspective on the business side of the Jets. That is where I think you need to keep Hockey ops somewhat separate though.

Well each segment is headed by a different executive but you got to think there are numerous interactions between the two.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They are absolutely the largest piece. At the CPA meeting yesterday Olfert provided actual data on that. Pretty much the vast majority of fan interaction is at the TV, streaming, blog and news level. Roughly 1/3 buy merchandise regularly and only 7% attend live events.

So yes the org needs to keep casual fan engaged to maintain TV viewership etc.

I provided a summary I the Chevy thread but the Jets have a pretty significant following in the province I.e 4 of 5 manitobans engaged in the Jets in some manner. We have a very high per capital TV following. Our viewership numbers very similar to the Alberta teams which was leveraged to get a comparable regional TV deal. So yes there is pressure to keep fans engaged and watching on TV.

I never disagreed with that. I'm just saying that those casual fans are not as big a part of the ticket buying fanbase as some seem to be assuming.

I didn't even consider the TV audience though. That would fall off too in a deep rebuild/tank situation.

But the same issues apply to every other small market team that has gone into a rebuild.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's a big part of their overall plan then. They likely ask themselves will people watch if the product is subpar? Will there be viewers if the team is like the Ducks? Young, exciting and skilled but largely terrible and unlikely to win many games. And can this market support a team like that for 3 or 4 years? What if the rebuild goes sideways? Can this market support a team like that for the better part of a decade?

As always the response to that is, can this market support the alternative to a rebuild?

No matter how hard it may be to sell interest in the rebuild, can it really be harder than selling interest to an underachieving team? A team that is never really much of a threat to go far?

If you can't really try to win it all you have to at least appear to be trying to do so.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Love the Logan's Run gif!!

A young Jenny Agutter. Sigh. Farrah who?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think they'll only buy out Wheeler if he really wants it, and even then they might be reluctant. You buy out players to fix your cap situation, not to placate a few pundits and some disgruntled fans. That would be irresponsible.

A third reason would be if he was a stage 4 cancer in the room. I didn't like the interviews responding to Bowness' comments. But I think Blake's leadership has been a mix of good and bad. Not bad enough to prompt a buyout.

IF he wants it, I would explore a trade but even then more likely wait for the TD. I think the return on him will be quite a bit better then than now and he can get a chance with a possible contender.

 

[WaveRaven]

Waiting to the TD is risky with anyone of the 4 but Wheeler. One ill timed injury nullifies any return at all.

 

[Daximus]

As always the response to that is, can this market support the alternative to a rebuild?

No matter how hard it may be to sell interest in the rebuild, can it really be harder than selling interest to an underachieving team? A team that is never really much of a threat to go far?

If you can't really try to win it all you have to at least appear to be trying to do so.

I think both would be a hard sell long term. Short term you could sell either as long as there is an upward trajectory but I suppose neither is promised. Feel like you have a better shot if you can get some better talent high in the draft.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think both would be a hard sell long term. Short term you could sell either as long as there is an upward trajectory but I suppose neither is promised. Feel like you have a better shot if you can get some better talent high in the draft.

You need something to base it on, but optimism is a good sell. High draft picks are one source. A good trade or two can go a long way.

How many times have we seen teams go into a rebuild handcuffed by an insistence on trying to compete with a fading core one or two years too long?

Jets would be better off embracing renewal by making the best possible deals for Dubois, Scheifele and Helle at the best possible times. Don't dick around negotiating with them for a couple of months and then try to trade them late in the summer. Make your last best offers to them today (yesterday would have been better). Take it or leave it. If they leave it, get busy on the trades.

 

[Jetsetter]

I listen to Winnipeg Sports Talk Radio today (and almost every day) and this was one of the most informative and interesting shows ever!

We have an opportunity to transition our team. I was looking at this as the end of being competitive. It is not! It is an opportunity!

If the right moves are made we would come out of this looking better than we are today! Sorry to you anti-Chevy people but Chevy is a shrewd judge of talent and trader of assets! In Chevy We Trust!

These will be pivotal moments in Jets 2.0 history, coming up in the next 2 weeks. Stay tuned and watch today's (June 16th) episode on WSR episode!

Should be a great two weeks coming up, for Jet fans!!!

 

[Teppo Numenor]

No they don’t. I’m a season ticket holder and every game day I get an email from TNSE telling me I can get a ticket to the game at a price far below my ST price.

That’s available to season ticket holders but not the general public. They pay full price, higher than your season ticket price.

 

[Daximus]

You need something to base it on, but optimism is a good sell. High draft picks are one source. A good trade or two can go a long way.

How many times have we seen teams go into a rebuild handcuffed by an insistence on trying to compete with a fading core one or two years too long?

Jets would be better off embracing renewal by making the best possible deals for Dubois, Scheifele and Helle at the best possible times. Don't dick around negotiating with them for a couple of months and then try to trade them late in the summer. Make your last best offers to them today (yesterday would have been better). Take it or leave it. If they leave it, get busy on the trades.

Yeah it can really go either way here as well. My biggest fear is we trade these assets for now returns and try to run with the new core and we are likely worse of for it. Don't get high draft picks and sit in the middle for to long which likely means a quick death for this franchise.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think when they say "now" returns they mean a Pionk type player and not like aging stars on expiring deals a la Huberdeau.

 

[Daximus]

I think when they say "now" returns they mean a Pionk type player and not like aging stars on expiring deals a la Huberdeau.

Those are tough to just steal away though. Guys like Dach and Byfield fit the bill but their fan bases sure aren't keen on moving them.

 

[Teppo Numenor]

Nice to see rational talk about the team’s current and future and a little bit of optimism. Things sure sound bleak around here after elimination.

 

[KingBogo]

That’s available to season ticket holders but not the general public. They pay full price, higher than your season ticket price.

For half of last season they had $49 Tuesdays where you got a ticket and a beer. Other than for a few of the original 6 teams you can go to any game you want at a fraction of the price.

 

[ps241]

Well each segment is headed by a different executive but you got to think there are numerous interactions between the two.

It only makes sense.

Pretty big organization considering it’s not that big a business revenue wise. Lots of moving parts though, as public facing as a business can get, extremely passionate customer base for better or worse.

I think the only way to own an NHL franchise is to not live in the same City.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah it can really go either way here as well. My biggest fear is we trade these assets for now returns and try to run with the new core and we are likely worse of for it. Don't get high draft picks and sit in the middle for to long which likely means a quick death for this franchise.

100%
Now returns means that we lose every deal in one way or another. I mean that 1 for 1 will be for a lesser player or we will settle for quantity for quality when all we need is quality.

If we must make "now" trades, I would be looking to add something to each of our trade pieces to get at least equal, if not better, quality.

But I would rather go for young players who are not yet proven but who have high potential. You accept some level of risk in exchange for the chance to get a higher end player.

 

[RabidOne]

I listen to Winnipeg Sports Talk Radio today (and almost every day) and this was one of the most informative and interesting shows ever!

We have an opportunity to transition our team. I was looking at this as the end of being competitive. It is not! It is an opportunity!

If the right moves are made we would come out of this looking better than we are today! Sorry to you anti-Chevy people but Chevy is a shrewd judge of talent and trader of assets! In Chevy We Trust!

These will be pivotal moments in Jets 2.0 history, coming up in the next 2 weeks. Stay tuned and watch today's (June 16th) episode on WSR episode!

Should be a great two weeks coming up, for Jet fans!!!

Glass isnt half full, its overflowing!
Love the positivity.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Glass isnt half full, its overflowing!
Love the positivity.

An overflowing glass just makes a mess that somebody has to clean up. Positivity sucks!

 

[Howard Chuck]

Sounds like Jets have accepted moving on from PLD but want to keep everyone else.

The buyout period opens in a couple of more days. The draft in in less than 2 weeks. Jets are going to try to extend Scheifele and Hellebuyck. It will drag on till well past those deadlines. Hellebuyck sounds like he will push for a trade rather than extending so they will trade him, but too late to get the max return.

Despite losing both PLD and Helle they will go all in to extend Scheifele. If they are successful it means losing out on the return on him + committing too much cap for him + giving him too much term. A boat anchor contract. Plus any negatives associated with having him on the team, for those of us who think he is an overrated cancer. If Scheifele is retained, surely they will also want to keep Wheeler for another season.

If unsuccessful in extending Scheifele it will probably be too late to make a good trade. Maybe both he and Wheeler go at the TD in '24.

It may be fun to speculate about all of the wonderful trades Chevy could make with the ammunition he has, but it is probably just setting ourselves up for disappointment.



The words rebuild & retool, etc mean different things to different people and even change a bit from day to day with the same people.

I think you might have hit on a word that Chevy and Chipman might like to use instead of rebuild. They can sell renewal.

It’s like you and I are the same person. I feel terrible about it, but Chevy is going to totally screw this up.

I would be ecstatic to be wrong…,,

Glass isnt half full, its overflowing!
Love the positivity.

There are very positive thing that could be done this off-season, but history has taught me to not set myself up for disappointment.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Buying into the rumoured plan of attack for Chevy, I would actually be okay with some moves like these - I think the team arguably improves and gets younger.

Trade PLD for Byfield & Arvidsson
Trade Helle for Holtz, Schmid, decent F for 4th line?
Trade Stanley for good 4th liner
Extend Mark

If Byfield can take a step forward and be a 40-50 point guy next year this may out do our 22/23 top 9:

Perfetti - Scheifele Arvidsson
Connor - Byfield - Ehlers
Barron - Lowry - Nino

Schmid is not proven to play 50+ games but he was pretty good in both the regular season and playoffs for Jersey, and is only 23.

Holtz is an option to replace Nino/arvy/wheeler the year after

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Buying into the rumoured plan of attack for Chevy, I would actually be okay with some moves like these - I think the team arguably improves and gets younger.

Trade PLD for Byfield & Arvidsson
Trade Helle for Holtz, Schmid, decent F for 4th line?
Trade Stanley for good 4th liner
Extend Mark

If Byfield can take a step forward and be a 40-50 point guy next year this may out do our 22/23 top 9:

Perfetti - Scheifele Arvidsson
Connor - Byfield - Ehlers
Barron - Lowry - Nino

Schmid is not proven to play 50+ games but he was pretty good in both the regular season and playoffs for Jersey, and is only 23.

Holtz is an option to replace Nino/arvy/wheeler the year after

Not bad.
I'd suggest Marino instead of Holtz.
Schmid looks like a good gamble.
Byfield is also a gamble but he has been progressing and the potential is high.

Marino makes Pionk expendable (or Schmidt).

 

[kinghock]

Buying into the rumoured plan of attack for Chevy, I would actually be okay with some moves like these - I think the team arguably improves and gets younger.

Trade PLD for Byfield & Arvidsson
Trade Helle for Holtz, Schmid, decent F for 4th line?
Trade Stanley for good 4th liner
Extend Mark

If Byfield can take a step forward and be a 40-50 point guy next year this may out do our 22/23 top 9:

Perfetti - Scheifele Arvidsson
Connor - Byfield - Ehlers
Barron - Lowry - Nino

Schmid is not proven to play 50+ games but he was pretty good in both the regular season and playoffs for Jersey, and is only 23.

Holtz is an option to replace Nino/arvy/wheeler the year after

If Winnipeg want Byfield they can trade with Montreal not with LA.
I do not believe PLD has such value with his reputation, etc.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

If Winnipeg want Byfield they can trade with Montreal not with LA.
I do not believe PLD has such value with his reputation, etc.

What is that reputation?