Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[Huffer]

Not bad.
I'd suggest Marino instead of Holtz.
Schmid looks like a good gamble.
Byfield is also a gamble but he has been progressing and the potential is high.

Marino makes Pionk expendable (or Schmidt).

Rather have younger pieces like Holtz myself. Personally am hoping for the young upside (and cheaper) pieces like Holtz. Marino is a good D, but even if we could swap out Pionk or Schmidt, we wouldn't get a Holtz back on those deals IMO.

 

[Huffer]

What is that reputation?

Didn't you know? According to HF experts who live thousands of kilometers away, PLD is an absolute garbage human being who will quit on every hockey team he'll ever play on and also kicks puppies for fun. The Jets locker room was also so bad according to HF experts that they were sacrificing virgins and running locker room fight clubs for kicks.

 

[ps241]

If Winnipeg want Byfield they can trade with Montreal not with LA.
I do not believe PLD has such value with his reputation, etc.

You’re not negotiating for LA that I am aware of. We’re not negotiating for Winnipeg that I am aware of.

We’re not getting a deal done even if we can agree.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Rather have younger pieces like Holtz myself. Personally am hoping for the young upside (and cheaper) pieces like Holtz. Marino is a good D, but even if we could swap out Pionk or Schmidt, we wouldn't get a Holtz back on those deals IMO.

If Holtz was a RHD I would agree with you. Our RHD is weak and we have very little in the pipeline. We do have pretty good F prospects and our top 4 F prospects are all RHS, like Holtz. Marino just turned 26 a month ago. Still fits the timeline.

 

[Huffer]

If Holtz was a RHD I would agree with you. Our RHD is weak and we have very little in the pipeline. We do have pretty good F prospects and our top 4 F prospects are all RHS, like Holtz. Marino just turned 26 a month ago. Still fits the timeline.

Agree to disagree then. If I was navigating these trades the main pieces for me coming back are high upside and young. Holtz has a little bit of risk, but I want that upside. Plus, even in a player like Marino is better than Schmidt or Pionk, we'd still have to move one of them and I'm not seeing a Holtz coming back in those trades. Rather have a Holtz + Pionk than Marino + X (which will be less than a Holtz).

 

[10Ducky10]

Positivity sucks!

How would you know?

 

[Heldig]

On the Red Wings board I saw discussion around acquiring a goal scorer...Kyle Connor. Pretty darn good offers including:

Berggren plus 2 1st round picks and another good prospect

 

[surixon]

Agree to disagree then. If I was navigating these trades the main pieces for me coming back are high upside and young. Holtz has a little bit of risk, but I want that upside. Plus, even in a player like Marino is better than Schmidt or Pionk, we'd still have to move one of them and I'm not seeing a Holtz coming back in those trades. Rather have a Holtz + Pionk than Marino + X (which will be less than a Holtz).

I'd like Morino from Jersey but I'd want a first plus Stillman as well

 

[BoneDocUK]

An efficient summary of the Jets' pre-draft position from The Athletic:

(quoted material satisfies the 10% rule)

Ates: Stakes for the Jets in potential franchise-changing trades are immense

This offseason for the Jets will be the difference between a successful retool or a missed opportunity to rebuild.

theathletic.com

My expectation is that the Jets want young players with term as opposed to pure futures — that their goal is to make the playoffs and hope to be the team that goes on a run. My fear is that Winnipeg will sell Vegas’ Cup win as an indication that the Jets were right there with them, the same way Kevin Cheveldayoff did after losing to St. Louis in 2019. I’ve also seen fans advocate for an all-out rebuild, believing that the route between the roster Winnipeg has today and one that can win it all starts with a step backward, toward draft capital. It almost reminds me of 2014-15, when it would have been easy to bet on the Jets as a playoff team with Andrew Ladd, Bryan Little and Wheeler controlling play but a lack of elites to keep the game tilted in Winnipeg’s favour. The Jets’ development program delivered those goods: Scheifele, Lowry, Hellebuyck, Morrissey, Connor, Ehlers, Patrik Laine and more.

Winnipeg doubled down on youth and delivered the best season of franchise history, with its extraordinarily cap-efficient youth movement nearly pushing the veteran core over the top. Scheifele and Wheeler were at their best — and so was Dustin Byfuglien — but Hellebuyck, Connor, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine cost roughly $6 million between them. Winnipeg made it to the Western Conference final because of its youth — not in spite of it — even if Scheifele and Wheeler led the way.

[...]

And all of this with Cheveldayoff painted into a corner, an entire league that knows it, no team captain and a mild but real battle of words between Rick Bowness and his key players during Winnipeg’s season-ending exit interviews. For his part, Cheveldayoff wasn’t willing to name or acknowledge the enormity of the challenges which fall before him now way back in April.

His ability to meet those challenges this offseason will be the difference between a successful retool and a misguided kick at the same ball that seems to keep dodging him. Win the moment, maintain a winner, attract players to a winning culture. Miss now and give the small but vocal rebuild crowd even more fuel for their fury.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

An efficient summary of the Jets' pre-draft position from The Athletic:

(quoted material satisfies the 10% rule)

Now, if 9 more subscribers would each contribute 10% of the article...

BTW, we rebuilders don't think of it as fury as much as sensibility. As Big Jim McBob and Billy Sol Hurok would say, this team needs to be...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agree to disagree then. If I was navigating these trades the main pieces for me coming back are high upside and young. Holtz has a little bit of risk, but I want that upside. Plus, even in a player like Marino is better than Schmidt or Pionk, we'd still have to move one of them and I'm not seeing a Holtz coming back in those trades. Rather have a Holtz + Pionk than Marino + X (which will be less than a Holtz).

OK, I get that.

But that is what you do at the draft. You make trades to turn randomly selected assets into a roster.

If all we want to do with these trades is get back to where we were last year we try to get prospect Cs and Gs in return. I want those things, obviously. I also want to fix our D corps.

Moving Pionk or Schmidt complicates things a bit.

Also not quite sure Holtz is going to live up to draft day expectations. He was picked 7th, Mercer was 18th. After D+3 Holtz has 6 pts in 28 NHL games, Mercer has 98 pts in 164 NHL games. You could just say great for Mercer. What he does says nothing about Holtz. Holtz has scored well in the AHL. But after D+3 you hope for a lot more from a 7th OA pick.

I'm not saying that Holtz isn't going to make it in the NHL, or that he is going to disappoint relative to his draft position. He still might. But I think the risk factor is rising.

 

[surixon]

If we get back Durzi as has been rumored who gets moved from RD. He essentially his a younger and a bit better version of Pionk/Schmidt?

 

[jamiebez]

If we get back Durzi as has been rumored who gets moved from RD. He essentially his a younger and a bit better version of Pionk/Schmidt?

Schmidt would make the most sense, but he might be a hard guy to move. 2 years left at $5.95M, with a 10-team NTC.

Anaheim really needs defensemen, but I don't know if he'd waive for them. He seems like such a good teammate, would be exactly what they need with a young group. Throw in Stanley as the sweetener.

Pionk would make sense going to Vancouver for one of their forwards with similar term & money (Boeser, Garland or Beauvillier). I think the minutes he played in the playoffs when Morrissey went down are the kind of thing GMs pay attention to.

 

[surixon]

Schmidt would make the most sense, but he might be a hard guy to move. 2 years left at $5.95M, with a 10-team NTC.

Anaheim really needs defensemen, but I don't know if he'd waive for them. He seems like such a good teammate, would be exactly what they need with a young group. Throw in Stanley as the sweetener.

Pionk would make sense going to Vancouver for one of their forwards with similar term & money (Boeser, Garland or Beauvillier). I think the minutes he played in the playoffs when Morrissey went down are the kind of thing GMs pay attention to.

Definitely could see the Pionk to Vancouver angle

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Definitely could see the Pionk to Vancouver angle

They do have a history of taking our bad D-men.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Washington seems to be lacking D. Schmidt to Washington for Mantha?

 

[Huffer]

OK, I get that.

But that is what you do at the draft. You make trades to turn randomly selected assets into a roster.

If all we want to do with these trades is get back to where we were last year we try to get prospect Cs and Gs in return. I want those things, obviously. I also want to fix our D corps.

Moving Pionk or Schmidt complicates things a bit.

Also not quite sure Holtz is going to live up to draft day expectations. He was picked 7th, Mercer was 18th. After D+3 Holtz has 6 pts in 28 NHL games, Mercer has 98 pts in 164 NHL games. You could just say great for Mercer. What he does says nothing about Holtz. Holtz has scored well in the AHL. But after D+3 you hope for a lot more from a 7th OA pick.

I'm not saying that Holtz isn't going to make it in the NHL, or that he is going to disappoint relative to his draft position. He still might. But I think the risk factor is rising.

It's not really about Holtz vs Marino anyway at a high level. I'm just saying personally if I was navigating these trades the majority of the value coming back is going to be in high picks, or very good prospects (hopefully ones that are ready to step in).

As for turning trades into a roster, that is also exactly my point. Getting back the prospect over the older player gives us much more flexibility as our available cap space is greater. So instead in this example having to scramble to move a contract like Schmidt or Pionk (which might not be easy to do), the Jets in this scenario would have the cap space to pivot to multiple options.

 

[sipowicz]

Any rebuild shouldn't be Chevy built!

Cheapman needs to stick the old Chevy on the junk lot!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's not really about Holtz vs Marino anyway at a high level. I'm just saying personally if I was navigating these trades the majority of the value coming back is going to be in high picks, or very good prospects (hopefully ones that are ready to step in).

As for turning trades into a roster, that is also exactly my point. Getting back the prospect over the older player gives us much more flexibility as our available cap space is greater. So instead in this example having to scramble to move a contract like Schmidt or Pionk (which might not be easy to do), the Jets in this scenario would have the cap space to pivot to multiple options.

Yeah, I was talking about that specific proposal. In general I agree with you. I'm not sure Chevy does.

I think that if we go that route though we end up taking back a few veterans to help trade partners with the cap issues. I would want mid value players who would still be useful rather than pure cap dumps. Marino would be an example of the type, though NJD wouldn't need the cap help.

 

[Huffer]

Yeah, I was talking about that specific proposal. In general I agree with you. I'm not sure Chevy does.

I think that if we go that route though we end up taking back a few veterans to help trade partners with the cap issues. I would want mid value players who would still be useful rather than pure cap dumps. Marino would be an example of the type, though NJD wouldn't need the cap help.

Agreed, in the LA talks it's guys like Iafallo and Arvidsson that interest me. Neither of their contracts is too large or too long, both actually provide decent value, and in the case of Arvidsson, you could flip him pretty easy at the TD I would think.

 

[KingBogo]

Any rebuild shouldn't be Chevy built!

Cheapman needs to stick the old Chevy on the junk lot!

The time to do that was the day after the Jets season ended, not a week before the draft and 10 days before free agency. We are stuck with a Chevy rebuilt or I guess retool if he does the bare minimum on his plate.

 

[Eyeseeing]

The time to do that was the day after the Jets season ended, not a week before the draft and 10 days before free agency. We are stuck with a Chevy rebuilt or I guess retool if he does the bare minimum on his plate.

Agreed.
Chipman is 1/2 the issue here and if this off season is a disaster ( already kind of is ) then we will have no doubt at all he’s been a part of the problem all along.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

How is the off season a disaster exactly? Because ppl are impatient?

 

[Eyeseeing]

How is the off season a disaster exactly? Because ppl are impatient?

Because 2 players or their agents have expressed the desire to leave the team.
That’s a huge red flag.
3 if you consider a Scheifele’s previous comments.

Then the end of season disconnect with the players regarding their coaches valid criticism.

Then the GM’s comments that everything is going well, just make the playoffs.

The icing on the cake is to run this back or heaven forbid extend 55.

 

[Gil Fisher]

How is the off season a disaster exactly? Because ppl are impatient?

if you sit on here all day, every day, and nothing happens for a week

Because 2 players or their agents have expressed the desire to leave the team.
That’s a huge red flag.
3 if you consider a Scheifele’s previous comments.

Then the end of season disconnect with the players regarding their coaches valid criticism.

Then the GM’s comments that everything is going well, just make the playoffs.

The icing on the cake is to run this back or heaven forbid extend 55.

but the offseason is less than a week old. so not a disaster yet.