Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[ERYX]

They didn't say the opposite they said they disagreed with him saying it in public.

The players and management said they didn't agree that we had no pushback.

I re-watched some of the year end interviews. He's what Wheeler had to say:

Wheeler: "I though that Rick had an opportunity to address us as a team and ... uh ... now we have to answer that question right. I think if he could have been honest with us we could have had those discussions behind closed doors. So I didn't agree with how he handled himself after that game. I know that our performance in game 5 wasn't up to a standard that we would have liked and there's disappointment in that ... the preparation we do is nothing short of being all-in ... we didn't show up the way we wanted, so there was room for disappointment, but I didn't agree with how he handled himself ..."

I find it awfully hard to believe that Bones never said anything to the players behind closed doors, especially since he was saying similar publicly back in January, February, March and no one said anything about him not saying that in the room back then. Wheeler's comments were really disappointing to me, taking very little ownership for the effort in game 5 and totally throwing the coach under the bus by claiming that he wasn't honest with them behind closed doors and then just talked smack about them in public. I just can't see Bones doing that.

 

[Daximus]

True, but the odds of getting #1 and #2 overall picks like Toews and Kane (Chi), Stamkos and Hedman (TB) and Crosby and Malkin (PIT) are really, really low.

Maybe you get one top pick, but as we've seen with Laine (who would be 1st overall in many drafts), it doesn't necessarily guarantee success. Even McDavid and Draisaitl haven't made the Oilers a surefire champion. Buffalo ended up trading their star pick before they were good enough to even make the playoffs.

I can see the potential value of a bunch of top-5 picks, but that can be a laborious process and can really ruin the reputation of a market. Maybe Ottawa seems like a model, but they have gone through such a long, crappy run and still haven't made the playoffs. I'd still rank them as a bubble team in the East - certainly not a cup contender at this point. That's after 5 horrible seasons, and one season just over .500.

I wonder whether it might be better to look more like teams like the Stars, Wild, and a few others that draft enough in the top 60 to nab some real stars through good scouting and improved pick volume.

In retrospect, trading the 1sts to rent Stastny and Hayes might have been poor decisions for a franchise like the Jets.

The trouble with the Oilers line of thinking is that they are even worse without McDavid and Drai and their rebuild would likely still be ongoing with no hope in sight. We have some talent on the roster right now and provided they don't want out immediately following the current exodus of talent we could take a dip in the standings and acquire some high end talent and be right back in the mix in a few seasons. The Oilers spun their tires for years because they basically had nothing and the young kids coming in were the defacto leaders.

The Wild have generally spun their tires for a few years but have benefitted from being a place where players are willing to sign. Minnesota is a hockey hot bed so they tend to get a lot of returnees. Plus it's just generally a really nice city. Dallas isn't really a model we can follow as they can attract FA talent pretty easily being the only team in Texas which is a tax free state.

Sure - but how many of those people go to games?

Just going by people I see/hear/meet at games it is not as much as you might think.

Then there is the next tier, fans who know Perfetti is being counted on as a big part of the future. They may have heard about Lambert too but have no idea who Declan Chisholm is. These are people who can buy into an exciting future. In fact, they may be an easier sell than many of us 'hardcore fans' here.

I'm not saying attendance would not drop during a rebuild. I think there is no doubt of that. It is a question of how far it will drop and how long it will take to recover.

That's the selling hope angle though. As long as the franchise can sell hope they can likely sell tickets. But hope only lasts so long and Winnipegers pockets are only so deep.

 

[WaveRaven]

Well, then why did the Jets' expected goals rate improve in the second half? That implies that the Jets were getting more, higher danger shots late in the season, and they absolutely shut off the expected goals against.

Now, if the Jets were getting fewer changes and expected goals as the season went on, then that's one thing. But that's not what happened. What happened was that they were getting more chances, but weren't converting on those chances.

Here are the Jets expected goals per 60 minutes, 5v5, adjusted for score and venue:

Season start to January 14: 2.65 (18th in the NHL)
January 15 to season end: 2.98 (8th in the NHL)

Another way of looking at it is "high danger shot attempts".

Jets were 9th in the NHL from January 15th until season end.
Jets were 12th earlier in the season.

So, what caused the second half "collapse"?

Well, let's start in goal. Despite being one of the best at limiting expected goals against, from January 15th until season end the Jets ranked 14th in save% at 5v5. Earlier in the season the Jets ranked 5th in the NHL in 5v5 save%.

Shooting % (overall):
Before January 15: 11.26 (4th in the NHL)
After January 15: 8.51 (32nd in the NHL)

So, to summarize:

1. In the second half of the season the Jets were generating more shots and expected goals than earlier in the season, and giving up way fewer expected goals against.
2. In the first half, the Jets had one of the top shooting and save % in the NHL, but dropped to last in shooting % and 14th in save % in the second half.

My take is that coaches, players and fans got frustrated by a prolonged losing slump, driven by a shooting and goaltending slump.

You make it sound like the analytics are be all end all, they're not. They don't tell the whole story.

Im not totally discounting the stats but If read the post above its like someone never watched the games. So what you're saying is it's not as bad as what you saw look at these here fancy stats.

Save % is not completely on the goalie. They hung him out to dry some nights.
Overall defensive play has an effect.

The don't generate hardly any garbage goals its all from the perimeter they constantly look for the fancy pass, move to the perimeter and avoid contact. It gets harder to score as the games get more structured.

None of this is measured in these stats are they? A shot from the high danger area is the same as the next.

 

[LowLefty]

I thought Dubois and Connor were really atrocious defensively in Game 5, but I think the whole narrative that the Jets hit the skids in terms of effort in Jan/Feb is bogus. At least, if you look at any metrics that are generally used to measure how well a team controls play and scoring chances. The Jets went cold - shooting and saving. It's as simple as that. Down the stretch they were 7th in the NHL in xGF% (5v5). That was much better than they were in the first half.

This graph shows what actually happened with the Jets' season, forgetting all of the noise and subjective feelings that arise when a team is losing more than expected. Bowness was basking in a great record in the first half of the season, which was driven largely by high shooting %, goaltending, and PK. In the second half, Connor, Dubois and Ehlers stopped scoring, despite getting lots of chances. Rittich went into the tank, and Hellebuyck became ordinary.

View attachment 718213

I guess you have to wonder what Bones was all riled up about during that bad stretch.

Do the stats really tell us all we need to know? Was there a drop off in compete during that stretch? Were we fighting for that middle ice, going to the net, driving much of anything off the rush, losing battles at both ends, and so on?
Or were we getting just as many chances (quantity and quality) and it was all just bad luck?

My subjective feeling tell me there was more to it that what a graph might be saying - we had a few key players that appeared to side significantly with their effort on the ice - they might be getting shots toward the net but the drive wasn't there (KC and Scheif come to mind and they are a couple of the key cogs).

I like stats as part of the discussion but not a big fan of dismissing what we see out there as being simply noise or subjective - or in other works, wrong.

 

[Buffdog]

Well, then why did the Jets' expected goals rate improve in the second half? That implies that the Jets were getting more, higher danger shots late in the season, and they absolutely shut off the expected goals against.

Now, if the Jets were getting fewer changes and expected goals as the season went on, then that's one thing. But that's not what happened. What happened was that they were getting more chances, but weren't converting on those chances.

Here are the Jets expected goals per 60 minutes, 5v5, adjusted for score and venue:

Season start to January 14: 2.65 (18th in the NHL)
January 15 to season end: 2.98 (8th in the NHL)

Another way of looking at it is "high danger shot attempts".

Jets were 9th in the NHL from January 15th until season end.
Jets were 12th earlier in the season.

So, what caused the second half "collapse"?

Well, let's start in goal. Despite being one of the best at limiting expected goals against, from January 15th until season end the Jets ranked 14th in save% at 5v5. Earlier in the season the Jets ranked 5th in the NHL in 5v5 save%.

Shooting % (overall):
Before January 15: 11.26 (4th in the NHL)
After January 15: 8.51 (32nd in the NHL)

So, to summarize:

1. In the second half of the season the Jets were generating more shots and expected goals than earlier in the season, and giving up way fewer expected goals against.
2. In the first half, the Jets had one of the top shooting and save % in the NHL, but dropped to last in shooting % and 14th in save % in the second half.

My take is that coaches, players and fans got frustrated by a prolonged losing slump, driven by a shooting and goaltending slump.

How much of the drop in scoring over the second half of the season was due to the PP?

You don't happen to have the PP% and actual goals over the same stretch you mentionned, do you?

I feel like I recall a stretch of like 0 for 30 or something at some point.. not sure if that actually happened, of when (if it did). I seem to recall something coinciding with Lauer's time away with his back injury

 

[DRW204]

I re-watched some of the year end interviews. He's what Wheeler had to say:

Wheeler: "I though that Rick had an opportunity to address us as a team and ... uh ... now we have to answer that question right. I think if he could have been honest with us we could have had those discussions behind closed doors. So I didn't agree with how he handled himself after that game. I know that our performance in game 5 wasn't up to a standard that we would have liked and there's disappointment in that ... the preparation we do is nothing short of being all-in ... we didn't show up the way we wanted, so there was room for disappointment, but I didn't agree with how he handled himself ..."

I find it awfully hard to believe that Bones never said anything to the players behind closed doors, especially since he was saying similar publicly back in January, February, March and no one said anything about him not saying that in the room back then. Wheeler's comments were really disappointing to me, taking very little ownership for the effort in game 5 and totally throwing the coach under the bus by claiming that he wasn't honest with them behind closed doors and then just talked smack about them in public. I just can't see Bones doing that.

Someone during the exit interviews mentioned he addressed them at half time.

They bought out Stu because it was clear he was no longer NHL caliber. Wheeler is still a good NHL player.

Fun fact
Since 2011, excluding the two expansion teams, STL appears to be the only team that has never bought anyone out.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I mean anderson went for the 30 + 50th and had way more of a track record and wasn't the back up of a historic bruins team, would you trade pld for a very late 1st and mid to late 2nd let alone add to pld to get that? I also don't get the logic behind people cautioning on the helle return means that pld for swayman would be a good deal

anyways I don't even see the bruins being able to go after pld with their cap space, they most likely try and re-sign bergeron + kjreci, trade one of swaymen/ulmark and use the assets acquired to move their bad contracts off the books to free up more cap space that they desperately need

The cautioning on Helle is because goalies generally don't bring big returns, even Vezina winners. So that applies to Swayman.

Andersen looks like a pretty good comp to Swayman at close to the same age. I would certainly hope to get more than 30 + 50 for PLD. The final price for Swayman will depend on the market.

Just me guessing but I think they re-sign Bergeron and let go of Krejci. That leaves a hole at C. But cap is still an issue for them. They will need to do something about that to take PLD. We could make the add to Dubois being cap coming back.

You're listing issues that would need to be dealt with to make the trade work. There might need to be some creativity. How about PLD + Stanley for Swayman + Debrusk + Reilly? At least to start the conversation.

Whatever the obstacles, given that we are losing Helle, I would be inclined to go hard for Swayman. If that means a bit of an overpay by Jets, so be it.

Or it could go as you say, Bruins trading for assets that can be used elsewhere to regain cap space. Maybe we could make a different offer altogether, based on what Bruins want.

 

[ERYX]

Someone during the exit interviews mentioned he addressed them at half time.

I haven't seen that one, but if so, someone is lying about what happened -- either Wheels or the other player. Don't see why anyone would lie and say the coach raised an issue he didn't. I can see a motive to lie and claim he never addressed it.

Regardless very disappointed in Wheeler either way.

 

[cbcwpg]

Some discussion as to how much of a rebuild do you do in a rebuild... Do you rebuild enough to get the #1 pick.

So some history...

- The draft has been held 60 times since 1963
- Of the 60 1st over-all players picked... ONLY 18 players have won the Stanley Cup
- Of the 18 players that have won the Stanley Cup... 5 of those players didn't win with the team that picked them.
- So only 13 out of 60 players picked 1st overall have won the Stanley Cup with the team that picked them.

- Since 2000, 6 players picked 1st overall out of 23 won the Stanley Cup with the team that picked them. 1 player didn't.

- Last player picked 1st overall to win the Cup.... Nathan MacKinnon 2013
- Teams with the most 1st overall picks that never won the Cup ( the pick didn't )

Buffalo - 4
Edmonton - 4
NYI - 3
Ottawa - 3

 

[surixon]

I guess you have to wonder what Bones was all riled up about during that bad stretch.

Do the stats really tell us all we need to know? Was there a drop off in compete during that stretch? Were we fighting for that middle ice, going to the net, driving much of anything off the rush, losing battles at both ends, and so on?
Or were we getting just as many chances (quantity and quality) and it was all just bad luck?

My subjective feeling tell me there was more to it that what a graph might be saying - we had a few key players that appeared to side significantly with their effort on the ice - they might be getting shots toward the net but the drive wasn't there (KC and Scheif come to mind and they are a couple of the key cogs).

I like stats as part of the discussion but not a big fan of dismissing what we see out there as being simply noise or subjective - or in other works, wrong.

It could be that as an emotional guy he was frustrated with not getting wins like many of us where.

But in actuality I think you are both right to some extent.

I think @Whileee is correct in that the team played much better then their record for large parts of the second half but I also do believe you are correct that they did revert and start doing their own at some point in the second half and that pissed the coach off.

I think that falling off happened somewhere around game 60 after frustration mounted. I feel they were largely pulling in the same direction until then but weren't getting results. So many went back to what worked for them in the past and it caused friction between the players and coach which we saw. It took the coach a while to get them reigned back in and then they started playing the system again to close out the year and for the first 4 games of the playoffs.

I actually preferred Bones locker room clean out presser because sometimes when your heated you exagerrate your point and have a hard time remembering the good so you focus mostly on the bad.

An accurate reflection would indicate being pissed at the game 5 effort and at periods when the team deviated in the second half. But it would also recognize that their were periods of ateong play and push back during that time that didn't lead to the desired results.

 

[DRW204]

I haven't seen that one, but if so, someone is lying about what happened -- either Wheels or the other player. Don't see why anyone would lie and say the coach raised an issue he didn't. I can see a motive to lie and claim he never addressed it.

Regardless very disappointed in Wheeler either way.

It was Wheeler

Jets forward Blake Wheeler criticized Bowness on Saturday, saying he didn't agree with how the bench boss handled himself after the defeat. Wheeler felt Bowness could've had those conversations with the team in private rather than airing them with the media, though Wheeler clarified Bowness did so with the team in the second intermission of Game 5.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So 4 out of what 18ish teams who are vying for the PO's at the tdl. Then consider some PO teams don't buy, or buy with heavy trade capital. and half of your list flaky as hell (Vegas for instance
clearly showed they did not need an upgrade in net).

I said LIKELY got it covered not which doesn't mean every single team, and mentioned possible a fringe team may move a 1st+(or high capital) for one. And Helle's PO numbers were abysmal.

Vegas is not half my list. And I conceded that their goalies worked for them. The question was, who would have predicted that?

That leaves 3 - and just as you said LIKELY got it covered, I started by agreeing with your point. I am only pointing out that there are significant exceptions.

Helle hadn't played this year's PO at the most recent TD, when those 3 teams needed a goalie. This year's PO numbers were very poor. But prior PO numbers were pretty good. It doesn't exactly prove he is not a PO goalie.
'18 - 92.2
'19 - 91.3
'20 - 90.4
'21 - 93.1

 

[Whileee]

I guess you have to wonder what Bones was all riled up about during that bad stretch.

Do the stats really tell us all we need to know? Was there a drop off in compete during that stretch? Were we fighting for that middle ice, going to the net, driving much of anything off the rush, losing battles at both ends, and so on?
Or were we getting just as many chances (quantity and quality) and it was all just bad luck?

My subjective feeling tell me there was more to it that what a graph might be saying - we had a few key players that appeared to side significantly with their effort on the ice - they might be getting shots toward the net but the drive wasn't there (KC and Scheif come to mind and they are a couple of the key cogs).

I like stats as part of the discussion but not a big fan of dismissing what we see out there as being simply noise or subjective - or in other works, wrong.

Shot metrics that include expected goals and "high danger" attempts specifically chart shot volumes and locations. They have been shown to be very well-correlated with goals over large sample sizes.

So, with such a wild dip in shooting percentage (from 5th to 32nd in the NHL), there are two hypotheses.

1) For some reason, the shot metrics measurement for the Jets became completely inaccurate from January to April last year, and were somehow overestimating the Jets shot volumes and locations during that specific time frame. It didn't happen to any other team.

2) The Jets actually improved shot volume and location as every data site measured, but had a shooting slump and the goaltending dipped. As a result, they lost a lot of games that they would have won if their high shooting percentage and save percentage from the first half persisted.

Finally, have a look at how extreme the dip in shooting percentage was for the Jets top 4 forwards. Only Scheifele kept scoring after January 15, and even his hot shooting cooled a bit. But Connor, Dubois and Ehlers sunk to historic lows. I think it's very, very unlikely that they just stopped playing hard, especially since their shot volumes and locations actually improved overall. I think they went cold. It happens.

 

[Daximus]

Some discussion as to how much of a rebuild do you do in a rebuild... Do you rebuild enough to get the #1 pick.

So some history...

- The draft has been held 60 times since 1963
- Of the 60 1st over-all players picked... ONLY 18 players have won the Stanley Cup
- Of the 18 players that have won the Stanley Cup... 5 of those players didn't win with the team that picked them.
- So only 13 out of 60 players picked 1st overall have won the Stanley Cup with the team that picked them.

- Since 2000, 6 players picked 1st overall out of 23 won the Stanley Cup with the team that picked them. 1 player didn't.

- Last player picked 1st overall to win the Cup.... Nathan MacKinnon 2013
- Teams with the most 1st overall picks that never won the Cup ( the pick didn't )

Buffalo - 4
Edmonton - 4
NYI - 3
Ottawa - 3

I think you just have to at least try to get some high picks. You don't necessarily have to draft #1 but getting a few top 3 picks on your way can and does help.

 

[Daximus]

Like getting ourselves one of Bedard, Fantilli or Carlsson would have been huge this summer. Ditto goes for the current top 3 of Celebrini, Eiserman or Catton next year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's the selling hope angle though. As long as the franchise can sell hope they can likely sell tickets. But hope only lasts so long and Winnipegers pockets are only so deep.

Yes. I expect that a rebuild that drags out too long could have too long a recovery time for Jets.

That is exactly why this is an ideal chance to start a rebuild. We have a fairly good pool of prospects to start with. We have 3 high end players who need to be moved regardless and who could return a very strong boost to a rebuild. If done well, we could have a relatively quick rebuild.

Going in to this exceptional draft class is another factor. On one hand, it means that players traded for picks may return better prospects. On the other hand, it will make teams reluctant to trade this year's picks. It might force Jets to accept next year's picks instead, and those from teams likely to be better next year than this year because of having our good players.

It reinforces the idea that Chevy really should have done it last year, trading for this year's picks. But even somewhat later picks this year should be good.

Better selling hope than selling settling for mediocre.

 

[DRW204]

Vegas is not half my list. And I conceded that their goalies worked for them. The question was, who would have predicted that?

That leaves 3 - and just as you said LIKELY got it covered, I started by agreeing with your point. I am only pointing out that there are significant exceptions.

Helle hadn't played this year's PO at the most recent TD, when those 3 teams needed a goalie. This year's PO numbers were very poor. But prior PO numbers were pretty good. It doesn't exactly prove he is not a PO goalie.
'18 - 92.2
'19 - 91.3
'20 - 90.4
'21 - 93.1

Who could've predicted that... Maybe the team that went with those goalies and didn't trade high price for a starter to suplant them. 3/4 of those teams you listed made the conference finals seems to me they were fine with their goaltending, and it outpeformed Helle

I'm aware of what his career PO stats are, they're middle of the pack when rating against other PO goalies during that time frame.... What does that have to do with how he performed this year.

 

[Whileee]

How much of the drop in scoring over the second half of the season was due to the PP?

You don't happen to have the PP% and actual goals over the same stretch you mentionned, do you?

I feel like I recall a stretch of like 0 for 30 or something at some point.. not sure if that actually happened, of when (if it did). I seem to recall something coinciding with Lauer's time away with his back injury

Good catch.

Jets' shooting percentage on the PP sank in the second half, from 14.7% (15th) to 10.0% (28th). So, it dipped, but actually not as much (relative to other teams) as the 5v5 shooting percentages.

Jets PP xGF/60 was 9.2 (10th) in the first half, and sank to 7.5 (23rd) in the second half. So they had a big dip in chances on the PP in the 2nd half, and I also thought the PP really stagnated when Lauer was out for a stretch in the 2nd half.

I guess you have to wonder what Bones was all riled up about during that bad stretch.

Do the stats really tell us all we need to know? Was there a drop off in compete during that stretch? Were we fighting for that middle ice, going to the net, driving much of anything off the rush, losing battles at both ends, and so on?
Or were we getting just as many chances (quantity and quality) and it was all just bad luck?

My subjective feeling tell me there was more to it that what a graph might be saying - we had a few key players that appeared to side significantly with their effort on the ice - they might be getting shots toward the net but the drive wasn't there (KC and Scheif come to mind and they are a couple of the key cogs).

I like stats as part of the discussion but not a big fan of dismissing what we see out there as being simply noise or subjective - or in other works, wrong.

They were losing games, and under increasing pressure as they sank towards the playoff line. Coaches get grumpy and sometimes overreact when the team is losing. The PP went into the tank, and that always annoys coaches, too.

I would note that the only forward that kept scoring at all during a long stretch was Scheifele. Scheifele was the only top forward that scored more than expected last year, based on shot locations and volume. And he was clearly getting to the centre of the ice to score his goals.

 

[surixon]

Like getting ourselves one of Bedard, Fantilli or Carlsson would have been huge this summer. Ditto goes for the current top 3 of Celebrini, Eiserman or Catton next year.

The issue is the Jets would have had to sell off a good 6 plus players to stink that bad. It's not always easy for a good team with lots of contracts to get bad really quick especially when you need to find takers for the contracts in a flat cap environment while remaining complaint yourself.

I generally expect a two year dip into the top 10 of the draft due to likely loosing a number of key players but it wouldn't have been easy to dismantle this team last summer to try to get a Bedard.

 

[ps241]

I don't really care, or find solace in how other teams perform compared to the ones I root for. Like just bc the other teams lost to Vegas strikes me as just more fishing of excuses.

If the Jets had the mentality of absolving the team /roster just bc other teams lost to Vegas then folks shouldn't throw a fit if they brought most of the personnel back.

Yea I am more talking about me. Trust me, I can’t stand the way this group seems to quit in elimination games. I was taking a minor pause saying I guess we are not alone but by no means does it excuse it over so many exits. Have we ever really gone down swinging? I don’t think so.

 

[surixon]

Good catch.

Jets' shooting percentage on the PP sank in the second half, from 14.7% (15th) to 10.0% (28th). So, it dipped, but actually not as much (relative to other teams) as the 5v5 shooting percentages.

Jets PP xGF/60 was 9.2 (10th) in the first half, and sank to 7.5 (23rd) in the second half. So they had a big dip in chances on the PP in the 2nd half, and I also thought the PP really stagnated when Lauer was out for a stretch in the 2nd half.


They were losing games, and under increasing pressure as they sank towards the playoff line. Coaches get grumpy and sometimes overreact when the team is losing. The PP went into the tank, and that always annoys coaches, too.

I would note that the only forward that kept scoring at all during a long stretch was Scheifele. Scheifele was the only top forward that scored more than expected last year, based on shot locations and volume. And he was clearly getting to the centre of the ice to score his goals.

View attachment 718285

All of the Jets top 6 forwards except for Ehelers (shoots from everywhere) had the vast majority of their shots from the slot.

 

[Daximus]

The issue is the Jets would have had to sell off a good 6 plus players to stink that bad. It's not always easy for a good team with lots of contracts to get bad really quick especially when you need to find takers for the contracts in a flat cap environment while remaining complaint yourself.

I generally expect a two year dip into the top 10 of the draft due to likely loosing a number of key players but it wouldn't have been easy to dismantle this team last summer to try to get a Bedard.

I think selling off Helle is likely going to sink us more than many realize. He's by far the busiest goalie in the league and that is unlikely to change when he's gone. Not many goalies can stand up to the shallacking he gets without cratering. But I do agree that it would have been near impossibly to out tank Chicago and Anaheim. But getting into the top 5 wouldn't have been entirely out of the conversation had we moved Scheif, Helle and Dubois last year.

 

[Whileee]

All of the Jets top 6 forwards except for Ehelers (shoots from everywhere) had the vast majority of their shots from the slot.

Right. And that didn't change during the scoring slump.

 

[KingBogo]

Sure - but how many of those people go to games?

Just going by people I see/hear/meet at games it is not as much as you might think.

Then there is the next tier, fans who know Perfetti is being counted on as a big part of the future. They may have heard about Lambert too but have no idea who Declan Chisholm is. These are people who can buy into an exciting future. In fact, they may be an easier sell than many of us 'hardcore fans' here.

I'm not saying attendance would not drop during a rebuild. I think there is no doubt of that. It is a question of how far it will drop and how long it will take to recover.

It’s not just attendance but how many season ticket holders there is versus how many people go to games here and there usually at deep discounts. We have got to the point where any advantage of being a ST holder has long past.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Some say excited, I say fearful of possible outcomes.
There a lot of moving parts from now to next season. This could turn into a rebuild with poor player asset management.

I'm certainly fearful of possible outcomes with trades, but I'm more fearful of outcomes without trades.