Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[R Zardo]

So you're fine with the players like Wheeler undermining their coach and influencing the younger members of the team ? The inmates are running the asylum. He should be bought out today.

just making up stuff to justify your own irrational hate.

 

[Whileee]

Will the Jets participate? We will see ... but I am interested to see what all the teams do.

I think they'll only buy out Wheeler if he really wants it, and even then they might be reluctant. You buy out players to fix your cap situation, not to placate a few pundits and some disgruntled fans. That would be irresponsible.

 

[Daximus]

Yup he talked about accountability abs specifically mentioned that he's not just accountable to the fans but to his broadcast partners to get enough people watching, his sponsorship partners to get enough butts in the seats to see the adds.

I found it pretty eye opening and something I didn't really think about. There are pressures from other key stakeholders with 10's of millions invested that have likely driven many decisions.

Yeah with that in mind it's pretty easy to see why they would be leaning towards retool over rebuild even if it's not the smartest option. As long as they can sell false hope, they are good.

 

[RabidOne]

IMHO, it's very difficult to build a solid bottom 6.

You either have to draft and develop them, trade for them (open using draft picks as capital which makes d+d harder) or sign them as UFA

The ones you really want are going to be good enough that there will be other teams interested. If that's the case, you'll probably have to overpay in AAV or term or both to land them

Jets 4th line this year could have been Eeli Tolvanen, Daniel Sprong and Kasperi Kapanen.
All those guys passed through waivers.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

WTF are they nuts ? That season ending press conference should have been the last straw. What a dysfunctional franchise.

Its becoming quite clear that the players have far greater influence on this team than the coach. Small wonder they don't follow the coaches game plan.

I'm with ya but as has already been pointed out, we belong to that "small section of the fan-base that tend to dislike almost everything about the Jets right now".

 

[WaveRaven]

just making up stuff to justify your own irrational hate

Did you not watch the press conferences this year and last ? When you boss says one thing and you go out and say the opposite you're undermining him.

 

[tbcwpg]

Did you not watch the press conferences this year and last ? When you boss says one thing and you go out and say the opposite you're undermining him.

They didn't say the opposite they said they disagreed with him saying it in public.

 

[gojetsgo]

Jets 4th line this year could have been Eeli Tolvanen, Daniel Sprong and Kasperi Kapanen.
All those guys passed through waivers.

we didn't have a chance to claim tolvanen and we probably put a claim in on him since we ended up with kuhlman the next day

 

[WaveRaven]

They didn't say the opposite they said they disagreed with him saying it in public.

The players and management said they didn't agree that we had no pushback.

 

[Whileee]

That's a big part of their overall plan then. They likely ask themselves will people watch if the product is subpar? Will there be viewers if the team is like the Ducks? Young, exciting and skilled but largely terrible and unlikely to win many games. And can this market support a team like that for 3 or 4 years? What if the rebuild goes sideways? Can this market support a team like that for the better part of a decade?

Good questions. The larger question is whether it's really necessary or effective to tank for an extended period to become competitive. I think a lot of it is prudent decisions and then some luck, both in the draft and with an occasional break-out player in a trade (e.g. Chandler Stephenson). Stars have turned themselves into a contender based on drafting stars in Hintz, Robertson and Oettinger. Wyatt Johnston looks like a beauty, too. All of them drafted #23 or lower.

I think it's crucial to know when to "fold them", and reboot with a new set of younger players and some additional picks, but the record of teams that bottom out in terms of becoming championship caliber teams is a bit spotty, unless they draft one or two generational players. Even then, it's not a sure thing.

 

[FonRiesen]

Yeah, Wheeler will get you 'premium tickets' in Arizona so you can watch his new team... They have to fill seats somehow!

 

[WpgSteve]

Chipman is a Winnipegger. If he's paying Wheeler $8.25M, Wheeler is damn well going to play.

 

[scelaton]

I think they'll only buy out Wheeler if he really wants it, and even then they might be reluctant. You buy out players to fix your cap situation, not to placate a few pundits and some disgruntled fans. That would be irresponsible.

That's a bit pejorative, no? The critics of this organization are large in number, varied and justified, IMO. I admit to being one myself after watching a plan that I understood and supported for a decade fall off the tracks.

There are reasons for a Wheeler buyout, other than the cap, that I won't bother to repeat. Waiting till the deadline isn't the worst strategy but there are opportunity costs to keeping him here till then. As a 37 year old, I strongly suspect his productivity will decline while his influence on a team that needs a different leading voice will remain strong.

 

[Whileee]

The players and management said they didn't agree that we had no pushback.

I thought Dubois and Connor were really atrocious defensively in Game 5, but I think the whole narrative that the Jets hit the skids in terms of effort in Jan/Feb is bogus. At least, if you look at any metrics that are generally used to measure how well a team controls play and scoring chances. The Jets went cold - shooting and saving. It's as simple as that. Down the stretch they were 7th in the NHL in xGF% (5v5). That was much better than they were in the first half.

This graph shows what actually happened with the Jets' season, forgetting all of the noise and subjective feelings that arise when a team is losing more than expected. Bowness was basking in a great record in the first half of the season, which was driven largely by high shooting %, goaltending, and PK. In the second half, Connor, Dubois and Ehlers stopped scoring, despite getting lots of chances. Rittich went into the tank, and Hellebuyck became ordinary.

 

[Whileee]

That's a bit pejorative, no? The critics of this organization are large in number, varied and justified, IMO. I admit to being one myself after watching a plan that I understood and supported for a decade fall off the tracks.

There are reasons for a Wheeler buyout, other than the cap, that I won't bother to repeat. Waiting till the deadline isn't the worst strategy but there are opportunity costs to keeping him here till then. As a 37 year old, I strongly suspect his productivity will decline while his influence on a team that needs a different leading voice will remain strong.

If Wheeler is a negative influence in the dressing room, they should buy him out. No question. But the players, coaches and management are in the best position to assess that, not a few local reporters or fans that have decided that he's the problem. My point is that they shouldn't base management decisions on specific, personalized criticism of one or two players by people who don't really know the behind-the-scenes scenario.

I can certainly understand fans being disgruntled with the overall direction of the franchise, but that's not what I was referencing. I was talking about what to do with a specific player. The day that an NHL franchise starts letting the media and some fans start running core players out of town based on rumours and innuendo is when players and agents decide to avoid that franchise at all costs.

Now, if anyone has specific information that Wheeler is a bad influence on the team, young players, fans, the community, then let's see it. But let's not just focus our overall disappointment with the team on one or two players.

 

[DRW204]

Trade for him? Even a 6 or 7th rd pick is better than nothing

we didn't have a chance to claim tolvanen and we probably put a claim in on him since we ended up with kuhlman the next day

 

[Whileee]

That's a bit pejorative, no? The critics of this organization are large in number, varied and justified, IMO. I admit to being one myself after watching a plan that I understood and supported for a decade fall off the tracks.

There are reasons for a Wheeler buyout, other than the cap, that I won't bother to repeat. Waiting till the deadline isn't the worst strategy but there are opportunity costs to keeping him here till then. As a 37 year old, I strongly suspect his productivity will decline while his influence on a team that needs a different leading voice will remain strong.

Also, I don't disagree with the plan falling off the tracks. But I think some of that is hindsight. I think most people were pretty okay with the direction of the franchise going into the 2019/20 season. It's really hard to know how the fortunes of the team might have differed if Byfuglien and Little weren't suddenly out of the roster, and Trouba hadn't forced his way to NY. That's a big shock to a roster, and maybe to the overall culture of the team (Byfuglien and Little were core in the locker room, too).

I also think the Jets expected much more from Dubois than they got. It was reasonable to expect him to be a dominant 1 a/b C to pair with Scheifele, but PLD was downright awful in his first year, and then it became well-known to all that he was just biding his time in Winnipeg. Maybe the Jets misread that, but I could understand the rationale from a hockey perspective.

I think the next phase will define Chevy's performance more than any other. I am waiting to see how it pans out, trying to filter out all of the subjective assessments of individual players' attitudes, etc.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

If Wheeler is a negative influence in the dressing room, they should buy him out. No question. But the players, coaches and management are in the best position to assess that, not a few local reporters or fans that have decided that he's the problem. My point is that they shouldn't base management decisions on specific, personalized criticism of one or two players by people who don't really know the behind-the-scenes scenario.

I can certainly understand fans being disgruntled with the overall direction of the franchise, but that's not what I was referencing. I was talking about what to do with a specific player. The day that an NHL franchise starts letting the media and some fans start running core players out of town based on rumours and innuendo is when players and agents decide to avoid that franchise at all costs.

Now, if anyone has specific information that Wheeler is a bad influence on the team, young players, fans, the community, then let's see it. But let's not just focus our overall disappointment with the team on one or two players.

I think the biggest problem with having Wheeler on the team is that he holds enough sway to garner more ice time than is warranted. Say what you want about his PP or EN prowess, but for regular 5v5 shifts, he probably should be on the 3rd line.

 

[Whileee]

Yeah with that in mind it's pretty easy to see why they would be leaning towards retool over rebuild even if it's not the smartest option. As long as they can sell false hope, they are good.

In your mind, what would be sufficient to be called a "rebuild"?

 

[gojetsgo]

Trade for him? Even a 6 or 7th rd pick is better than nothing

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/nashville-predators/news/david-poile-addresses-the-loss-of-eeli-tolvanen-as-young-forward-succeeds-in-seattle

"We were really hoping we would get him through on waivers so that he could play in Milwaukee a little bit and then bring him back up, but we had to make some decisions."

I think they rather take the risk of sending him down and getting him to the minors then take a 6th-7th

 

[Daximus]

Good questions. The larger question is whether it's really necessary or effective to tank for an extended period to become competitive. I think a lot of it is prudent decisions and then some luck, both in the draft and with an occasional break-out player in a trade (e.g. Chandler Stephenson). Stars have turned themselves into a contender based on drafting stars in Hintz, Robertson and Oettinger. Wyatt Johnston looks like a beauty, too. All of them drafted #23 or lower.

I think it's crucial to know when to "fold them", and reboot with a new set of younger players and some additional picks, but the record of teams that bottom out in terms of becoming championship caliber teams is a bit spotty, unless they draft one or two generational players. Even then, it's not a sure thing.

I think a retool from our position is tougher to complete. When was the last time a team traded two top 6C's and a franchise goalie and came out the other side a champion within a decade? I'd assume never. The vast majority of recent champs have rebuilt and drafted their way to a Cup, generally high picks as well supplemented by hitting on a few others. The Knights aren't a realistic target for us to mold. So we generally have to look at the Hawks, Kings, Pens and Bolts. All of them have drafted stars in important positions high in the draft, supplemented by some savy picks that turned out, signed some decent FA's and made some trades to bolster their lineup. All of them have had some sustained success and multiple cups. That is what we should be striving to do.

 

[gojetsgo]

Also, I don't disagree with the plan falling off the tracks. But I think some of that is hindsight. I think most people were pretty okay with the direction of the franchise going into the 2019/20 season. It's really hard to know how the fortunes of the team might have differed if Byfuglien and Little weren't suddenly out of the roster, and Trouba hadn't forced his way to NY. That's a big shock to a roster, and maybe to the overall culture of the team (Byfuglien and Little were core in the locker room, too).

I also think the Jets expected much more from Dubois than they got. It was reasonable to expect him to be a dominant 1 a/b C to pair with Scheifele, but PLD was downright awful in his first year, and then it became well-known to all that he was just biding his time in Winnipeg. Maybe the Jets misread that, but I could understand the rationale from a hockey perspective.

I think the next phase will define Chevy's performance more than any other. I am waiting to see how it pans out, trying to filter out all of the subjective assessments of individual players' attitudes, etc.

imagine had stastny stayed, we most likely don't spend our 1st on someone like hayes

 

[MardyBum]

Don't see them buying out Wheeler. Maybe trading him at 50% and adding a guy a team doesnt want for cheap like Yamamoto.

 

[10Ducky10]

Jets 4th line this year could have been Eeli Tolvanen, Daniel Sprong and Kasperi Kapanen.
All those guys passed through waivers.

Tolvanen was picked up on waivers by Kraken, no?
The Jets didn't get a shot at him, did they?

 

[Thechozen1]

A priority for Chevy should be signing Niederreiter to an extension. He's one player who actually said he wants to play in Winnipeg. Those seem to be rare, so get him extended.

I would not be against that. Give him a 3 or 4 year deal at a fair price. He’s a good veteran with character. The kind of player you want around young impressionable rookies.