Rebuild/Restructure and What does that look like?

[ERYX]

But, what the Jets should be able to do better is build a better bottom 6. These guys don't get paid a fortune, and for the most part they aren't good enough to dictate where they can play, so this is something we should be able to do better.

This.

I've been perplexed at why the Jets have just a hard time building a solid bottom six. You'd think this would be much easier to compile than a good top six for the reasons you state. Yet we consistently seem to have lots of firepower up top and a rather lacklustre bottom six.

 

[Gm0ney]

This.

I've been perplexed at why the Jets have just a hard time building a solid bottom six. You'd think this would be much easier to compile than a good top six for the reasons you state. Yet we consistently seem to have lots of firepower up top and a rather lacklustre bottom six.

Teams with a good bottom 6 usually actually have a good Top 9 scoring threat and good checking bottom 3. The Jets could've done this back when they were deep enough, but PoMo seemed to prefer 2 skill lines, a checking 3rd line and a spare-parts/fighting/PK specialist 4th line that got 6 minutes a night.

We'll see what the Jets manage to get back from any player trades and signings over the summer, but next year's club might have a Top 3/Bottom 9 structure...

 

[DRW204]

A priority for Chevy should be signing Niederreiter to an extension. He's one player who actually said he wants to play in Winnipeg. Those seem to be rare, so get him extended.

he also said he doesn't want to rebuild either.

Teams with a good bottom 6 usually actually have a good Top 9 scoring threat and good checking bottom 3. The Jets could've done this back when they were deep enough, but PoMo seemed to prefer 2 skill lines, a checking 3rd line and a spare-parts/fighting/PK specialist 4th line that got 6 minutes a night.

We'll see what the Jets manage to get back from any player trades and signings over the summer, but next year's club might have a Top 3/Bottom 9 structure...

just wondering why are you defaulting to maurice? chevy has been the GM of this team through 12 years and traditionally does not have a skilled or highly productive bottom-6.

this year's FLA team was 6th in overall goals-for with merely 5 goals separating them from BUF at #3. This is while being a -23 in GF vs xGF (the worst of the top-14 goal-scoring teams, next worst is CAR). they had 12 players hit 10+ goals (t-2nd most in the NHL). seems to me that if a capable GM can give him personnel they'll get chances and produce.

 

[Gm0ney]

he also said he doesn't want to rebuild either.

just wondering why are you defaulting to maurice? chevy has been the GM of this team through 12 years and traditionally does not have a skilled or highly productive bottom-6.

this year's FLA team was 6th in overall goals-for with merely 5 goals separating them from BUF at #3. This is while being a -23 in GF vs xGF (the worst of the top-14 goal-scoring teams, next worst is CAR). they had 12 players hit 10+ goals (t-2nd most in the NHL). seems to me that if a capable GM can give him personnel they'll get chances and produce.

The Jets had the horses at forward to run Top 9 / Bottom 3 for a few years, but Maurice only really tried it in 2017-18.

 

[DRW204]

The Jets had the horses at forward to run Top 9 / Bottom 3 for a few years, but Maurice only really tried it in 2017-18.

they did in 17-18 and followed it up w/ almost the same team in 18-19 and he ran the bottom-6 similarly. Lowry had a poor year in 18-19 though. Copp was used as 3C at times and performed fine.

they dont have the fwds or horses... that's on the gm. what did they run post-maurice for a bottom-6? or pre-maurice? the GM doesn't get quality bottom-6ers, or typically hire ppl that believe in scoring talent through 4 lines. and that's the crux of the problem. then consider they have virtually nothing by the way of prospects that can come in and provide scoring sparks and as a result they have to opt for waiver wire guys or low end FAs.

 

[Buffdog]

JMO, but people need to stop comparing how Vegas does things to how Winnipeg does things. Sure, maybe there are some things the Jets could do better, but here's one thing Vegas has that Winnipeg never will....

There are 500+ players in the NHL that WANT to play for Vegas, and there are 500+ players in the NHL that DON'T WANT to play for Winnipeg. That's not something TNSE or Chevy can wave a magic wand and change. So until those numbers reach some equilibrium it is what it isn't.

But, what the Jets should be able to do better is build a better bottom 6. These guys don't get paid a fortune, and for the most part they aren't good enough to dictate where they can play, so this is something we should be able to do better.

IMHO, it's very difficult to build a solid bottom 6.

You either have to draft and develop them, trade for them (open using draft picks as capital which makes d+d harder) or sign them as UFA

The ones you really want are going to be good enough that there will be other teams interested. If that's the case, you'll probably have to overpay in AAV or term or both to land them

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I thought bringing in Neideritter and Namestinikov were solid additions to our bottom 6. Too bad injuries forced them up in the lineup

 

[surixon]

they did in 17-18 and followed it up w/ almost the same team in 18-19 and he ran the bottom-6 similarly. Lowry had a poor year in 18-19 though. Copp was used as 3C at times and performed fine.

they dont have the fwds or horses... that's on the gm. what did they run post-maurice for a bottom-6? or pre-maurice? the GM doesn't get quality bottom-6ers, or typically hire ppl that believe in scoring talent through 4 lines. and that's the crux of the problem. then consider they have virtually nothing by the way of prospects that can come in and provide scoring sparks and as a result they have to opt for waiver wire guys or low end FAs.

The issue is the org has insisted on building its third line and by extension its bottom 6 around Lowry. I like Lowry but he's incredibly limited in his scoring ans thus derives the identity of his line and the Jets bottom 6. He's had solid to good offensive years but on average he's scored at 4C rates

 

[Daximus]

The issue is the org has insisted on building its third line and by extension its bottom 6 around Lowry. I like Lowry but he's incredibly limited in his scoring ans thus derives the identity of his line and the Jets bottom 6. He's had solid to good offensive years but on average he's scored at 4C rates

He was arguably our best player this playoffs though.

 

[surixon]

He was arguably our best player this playoffs though.

Yeah he has definitely had his positive moments for us but on average our third line has been a below average offensive line with him at the helm.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah he has definitely had his positive moments for us but on average our third line has been a below average offensive line with him at the helm.

I don't think that our 3rd line has been the problem though. Sure it's maybe not the greatest right now but we arguably had one of the best 3rd line shutdown lines in the league when the TLC line was rocking. Chevy has generally tried to mold this team around the Hawks cup winners who generally had a shutdown line as their 3rd.

 

[surixon]

I don't think that our 3rd line has been the problem though. Sure it's maybe not the greatest right now but we arguably had one of the best 3rd line shutdown lines in the league when the TLC line was rocking. Chevy has generally tried to mold this team around the Hawks cup winners who generally had a shutdown line as their 3rd.

Yeah but the third line by and large hasn't been an elite shut down line either since 17-18. In many ways it also was living off of past reputation.

It did get back on track as one for most of the year this season but I feel there were plenty of other opportunities to try other things the past number of years when it wasn't working.

 

[BoneDocUK]

The issue is the org has insisted on building its third line and by extension its bottom 6 around Lowry. I like Lowry but he's incredibly limited in his scoring ans thus derives the identity of his line and the Jets bottom 6. He's had solid to good offensive years but on average he's scored at 4C rates

This.

As goes Lowry, so go the 3rd and 4th lines. It's been a pattern with the Jets for a while now: pick a few players to build around, then fit or force players into complementary roles round them. So Lowry is soldered into that 3C spot and the search is on to find players who work well with him, as opposed to just building a strong 3rd line with or without Lowry.

Barron, Apples, Names and Nino all worked out at various points last season, and we had a useful if not always productive 3rd line, but it seems like the team might do as well or better with a more flexible approach.

Same with Wheeler as 1RW then 2RW, 55 with 81 as a two-man unit, etc.

I don't know whether the Jets feel bound to keep Lowry as Forever 3C because they have a specific idea of how they want to deploy 4 lines, or because they view him as the best option there as key part of a shutdown line, or some combo thereof.

But it leaves them with 1/2/Shutdown/Spare parts in a league where rolling 4 lines that can score has become increasingly the norm.

It isn't just about the horses, IMO, but about a roster / line philosophy also.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah but the third line by and large hasn't been an elite shut down line either since 17-18. In many ways it also was living off of past reputation.

It did get back on track as one for most of the year this season but I feel there were plenty of other opportunities to try other things the past number of years when it wasn't working.

I think the problems were with all of the forward lines and defensive pairs really. Helle had us in more games than we likely should have been, Perhaps with him gone now the brass will see that he was actually masking a lot of our deficiencies.

 

[surixon]

I think the problems were with all of the forward lines and defensive pairs really. Helle had us in more games than we likely should have been, Perhaps with him gone now the brass will see that he was actually masking a lot of our deficiencies.

There is definitely some of that. We need to construct 4 lines that can outscore. We haven't done a great job of that the last half decade.

 

[nabby12]

I thought bringing in Neideritter and Namestinikov were solid additions to our bottom 6. Too bad injuries forced them up in the lineup

Well Niederreiter is a top six forward. Especially over the likes of Wheeler/Perfetti. LOL

 

[robertocarlos]

Get ready to move to Texas.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The point though is they CAN sign those guys we can't. Whether they pan out or not.

We dumpster dive as best we can and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't

Lets look at it this way. Lets say we move all of PLD/Scheif/Helly and buyout Wheeler or trade him. Are we ever in any of the top 10 UFAs out there?

Lets look at it this way instead. Do we need to be in on any of the top 10 UFAs out there? Seriously. Our inability to sign these guys does us as much good as harm. It saves us from some roster killing contracts.

The same, to a lesser extent, with being on everyone's no trade list. We need to make trades for younger players who have not yet peaked or who are at their peaks. Those players don't have trade protection. The ones with NTC/NMC clauses are usually past their peak play but at their peak contract cost.

Canucks fan coming in with as much peace as a opposing fan can come with.


Are you guys excited for this retool?

I'm excited by the potential, ready to be disappointed.
I will be PO'ed if the retool/rebuild doesn't happen.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I will be PO'ed if the retool/rebuild doesn't happen.

Moi aussi. There can be only one response then.

 

[Zippity]

 

[Eyeseeing]

Honestly I am not the least bit surprised.
I would have been shocked if they bought him out or moved him

 

[KingBogo]

Why wouldn’t they keep Blake around? It is a waste of assets to try and trade him in the off season as you would need to add sweeteners to move his contract and he has extremely restrictive NTC. TNSE don’t really do buyouts so I fully expect him to be around. If he has another good season he is likely open to a TDL trade to a contender of his liking for a chance at a cup. I’ll add as shown at the exit interview’s Blake is much more popular with teammates than fans. As long as the organization moves the pending free agents that have value and are pushing hard to get out I think things settle down next season.

 

[Whileee]

Wheeler's best trade value is probably at the next trade deadline.

If the players and coaches are happy with Wheeler, I don't see why the Jets must trade him. I know he's a favourite scapegoat of some local media and fans, but if the Jets are really into a quasi-rebuild mode, they should focus on maximizing his trade value. A buy-out only makes sense if the Jets need cap space next season, and that seems very unlikely if they are trading Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebuyck and getting younger. Buying him out pushes an extra $2.75M cap hit into the 2024/25 season.

It's pretty clear that a lot of the other players still like Wheeler and respect him. He really didn't create any noticeable waves last season after being stripped of the captaincy.

Unless Wheeler really wants out, or he's seen as disruptive, I don't see the Jets impeding a bunch of RW prospects' opportunities next season with Lucius and Lambert and Chibrikov probably needing more time in the AHL.

The last reason for buying out Wheeler instead of a TDL move would be to placate media members or a small section of the fan-base that tend to dislike almost everything about the Jets right now.

 

[Flair Hay]

Wheeler's best trade value is probably at the next trade deadline.

If the players and coaches are happy with Wheeler, I don't see why the Jets must trade him. I know he's a favourite scapegoat of some local media and fans, but if the Jets are really into a quasi-rebuild mode, they should focus on maximizing his trade value. A buy-out only makes sense if the Jets need cap space next season, and that seems very unlikely if they are trading Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebuyck and getting younger. Buying him out pushes an extra $2.75M cap hit into the 2024/25 season.

It's pretty clear that a lot of the other players still like Wheeler and respect him. He really didn't create any noticeable waves last season after being stripped of the captaincy.

Unless Wheeler really wants out, or he's seen as disruptive, I don't see the Jets impeding a bunch of RW prospects' opportunities next season with Lucius and Lambert and Chibrikov probably needing more time in the AHL.

The last reason for buying out Wheeler instead of a TDL move would be to placate media members or a small section of the fan-base that tend to dislike almost everything about the Jets right now.

I think the possibility we keep him is a lot higher than fans and media think, yeah

 

[Whileee]

I think the possibility we keep him is a lot higher than fans and media think, yeah

I don't think it's because the Jets are desperate to have him on the team, but Wheeler's contract makes him hard to trade in the summer in a flat-cap environment. That's especially true since Wheeler has tight control over a trade destination. He would probably want to go to a contending team, but most won't have cap space at the beginning of the season (even with 50% retained). It's a much better trade to make at the TDL, when the cap hit to contenders is much more manageable (especially with retention), and Wheeler can play for a few months with a contender.

For a "rebuild", the best move by the Jets in terms of value is to keep him until the TDL and then trade him for picks and/or prospects to a contending team.

Who knows, he might even be a good mentor for a hard-working young winger or two this season.