Yeah definitely not the guy still playing pro Hockey in his 50s who is 2nd all time in points, that would be a travesty and an insult to the legends like Chris Osgood, Kevin Lowe and Bernie Federko.
Should Jagr get exempted into the HHOF?
- Thread starter GMR
- Start date
jigglysquishy
Registered User
I mean he's not a consensus top 10 all time.
If he gets to skip the line, why not Roy or Hasek or Lidstrom or Bourque? They are all in the same calibre and retired post Gretzky and had to wait.
If he skips then so too will Crosby and Ovechkin and McDavid.
GMR
Registered User
Because his situation is unique, unlike Roy, Lidstrom, or even Hasek who kept retiring and coming back one or two years later. Jagr is now in his 50s and hasn't played in the NHL for six seasons. He's a part-timer in a lesser league who is hotdogging it. And happens to be one of the greatest players ever.
It will be strange when he's inducted in 2035 (or whenever the hell he retires).
Cuz he's still playing whereas the others retired/will retire in their early 40s.
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
- 10,734
- 6,232
It would be because he did not play high level hockey / lot of games by season for a long time, if the hall consider for him retirement to be the 2022 season instead of 2025 and to induct him the summer he officially retire that would still be different not in all but in some way from people that retire from the NHL.
A bit of an in-between, not sure if it something Jagr would want (what would it say about its league, considering the 20-15 games a year with 15-10 points a season maybe he would not mind and not take it as a attack on Czech hockey and just a nice honor), it would be 3-4 years waiting period after your semi-retirement.... situation.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 19,251
- 14,572
jigglysquishy
Registered User
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
- 10,734
- 6,232
Either way, there is not an issue here (say they do it for Jagr and then do it for Ovechkin and Crosby beer leaguing after retiring a bit..) so ?
Cannot see any issue if they do it for Jagr, cannot see any issue if they don't, it is the most, they can do as they please debate I can think of. There is 0 risk that after they put him in the HHOF he make an nhl comeback that make the situation look strange. There is 0 argument they are better to cool down and take some higher cooler view of his career before deciding and so on.
Nothing bad can come of this either way for us to care I feel like.
Cannot see any issue if they do it for Jagr, cannot see any issue if they don't, it is the most, they can do as they please debate I can think of. There is 0 risk that after they put him in the HHOF he make an nhl comeback that make the situation look strange. There is 0 argument they are better to cool down and take some higher cooler view of his career before deciding and so on.
Nothing bad can come of this either way for us to care I feel like.
GMR
Registered User
Has he played in Europe the last six seasons?
Is he older than most GMs and owners?
Crosby2010
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2023
- 1,428
- 1,317
I would not have got Clapper, Lindsay or Kelly either (even if I had seen that list before and was not surprised, still forget about them being on it every time):
- 1947 – Dit Clapper retired on February 12, 1947.
- 1961 – Maurice "Rocket" Richard retired following the 1960-61 season.
- 1966 – Ted Lindsay retired in 1965.
- 1969 – Leonard "Red" Kelly retired in 1967.
- 1971 – Terry Sawchuk passed away in Summer of '70.
- 1972 – Jean Beliveau retired in 1972.
- 1972 – Gordie Howe retired in 1972, came out of retirement in 1973.
- 1979 – Bobby Orr retired in 1979 due to knee injury.
- 1997 – Mario Lemieux retired in 1997, came out of retirement in 2000.
- 1999 – Wayne Gretzky retired in 1999.
Yeah no doubt, I am the same with Clapper. Kelly too. If they didn't do it for Harvey I didn't even look up Kelly to double check. Lindsay is an interesting one because he doesn't fit the bill quite so much. He retired in 1960. Wasn't given exemption status, But 1963 was the year for him to get in. But this was the year they must have dropped the maximum amount to 4 players, because he didn't make the cut and they were putting earlier guys in before him. Then in 1965 and 1966 they went well beyond the maximum 4 players and Lindsay got inducted in 1966. This could be because he came back for a season in 1965 and then retired a 2nd time. Maybe they felt he put in his time in between retirements perhaps?
The Panther
Registered User
The answer to the thread question is clearly "no".
But I wonder if it isn't time to change the rules a bit for the "Hall of Cronyism" induction policy. Maybe change it to five years minimum after retirement or when a player hits age 50... whichever comes first (usually the former).
But I wonder if it isn't time to change the rules a bit for the "Hall of Cronyism" induction policy. Maybe change it to five years minimum after retirement or when a player hits age 50... whichever comes first (usually the former).
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2005
- 9,474
- 15,735
I don't have a reference handy, but I'm fairly sure that after Gretzky was immediately inducted in 1999, the Hall of Fame said they would never waive the three-year waiting period again.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
The Bylaw is available online
Section 19.2 Waiting Period, Players.
Except as provided in Section 19.5, a person is not eligible for election in the player category if he or she has played in a professional or international hockey game(which terms shall not be considered to include games played only or primarily for charitable or recreational purposes, or for any other limited purpose that the Chair determines, in his or her discretion, should not disqualify for nomination a person otherwise eligible) during any of the three (3) playing seasons immediately prior to his or her election.
Section 19.5 Elimination of Waiting Period.
Any person who, by reason of grave or terminal illness or injury, is not expected to survive until the next annual ceremony at which candidates elected to Honoured Membership may be inducted, may be nominated by a member of the Selection Committee at any time and the deadline for nominations in Section 20.2 and the provisions of Section 20.4 shall not apply to any such candidate. In addition, the Selection Committee, by an affirmative vote of at least three quarters of the members thereof present and voting at a duly convened meeting approved by the Board pursuant to Paragraph 22.1(a), may, in its discretion, eliminate the three (3)-year waiting period referred to in either of Sections 19.2 or 19.4 in respect of such candidate and such candidate shall then be eligible for election to Honoured Membership.
So as it's written, they would have to amend the bylaw to induct Jagr early. I don't think they can reasonably call Czech league games "charitable or recreational".
The elimination period is just for illness, but it looks like there's enough wiggle room with the wording they could induct a deceased member before the three years is up.
Section 19.2 Waiting Period, Players.
Except as provided in Section 19.5, a person is not eligible for election in the player category if he or she has played in a professional or international hockey game(which terms shall not be considered to include games played only or primarily for charitable or recreational purposes, or for any other limited purpose that the Chair determines, in his or her discretion, should not disqualify for nomination a person otherwise eligible) during any of the three (3) playing seasons immediately prior to his or her election.
Section 19.5 Elimination of Waiting Period.
Any person who, by reason of grave or terminal illness or injury, is not expected to survive until the next annual ceremony at which candidates elected to Honoured Membership may be inducted, may be nominated by a member of the Selection Committee at any time and the deadline for nominations in Section 20.2 and the provisions of Section 20.4 shall not apply to any such candidate. In addition, the Selection Committee, by an affirmative vote of at least three quarters of the members thereof present and voting at a duly convened meeting approved by the Board pursuant to Paragraph 22.1(a), may, in its discretion, eliminate the three (3)-year waiting period referred to in either of Sections 19.2 or 19.4 in respect of such candidate and such candidate shall then be eligible for election to Honoured Membership.
So as it's written, they would have to amend the bylaw to induct Jagr early. I don't think they can reasonably call Czech league games "charitable or recreational".
The elimination period is just for illness, but it looks like there's enough wiggle room with the wording they could induct a deceased member before the three years is up.
if Lemieux's waiting period had not been waived, he would have been inducted just before his comeback.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 31,436
- 20,432
Jagr's circumstances are unusual enough that it's probably ok if they did. The Czech League isn't a top 5 league in the world, it's not like he's doing anything for his hockey resume, NHL or globally by being a part time player on a team he owns, etc. Like would anyone be blinking an eye that proper procedure wasn't followed if they put Jagr into the HHOF this year? Codifying that into something more objective/universal would be tougher. I guess they'd have to say "if a player has been out of the NHL for 5 years regardless of playing in a professional league, the HHOF committee will consider on a case-by-case basis depending on the particular circumstances involved", which I guess would be the HHOF Committee acknowledging it's like a 90 % NHL Hall of Fame selection criteria for male players.
The Panther
Registered User
Ha! That's right. I think we generally take the Hall of Fame too seriously. Ideally, in a perfect world, there would be a more rigorous process to determine that only very select and elite players / builders / coaches get in.
But, by now, it is what it is. It's a club for cronyism in terms of induction, and (possibly more important) it's a museum site for fans to enjoy seeing historical items of the game's past.
Kevin Lowe got in recently. Did hockey fans en masse (or on this forum) suddenly change their thinking towards Kevin Lowe and suddenly worship him as a hockey god, thrusting him up the rankings with the elite. No, we did not.
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
The longer he plays, indeed the greater the legacy.
He will get in eventually, with full honors.
He will get in eventually, with full honors.
Yozhik v tumane
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2019
- 2,022
- 2,171
He did seem more frequently mentioned in a positive light though, rather than a prime example of a bad induction which is seemingly 98% of his mentions.
gary69
Registered User
If his introduction drags for several years still, closer to decade, then even the younger fans, who watched him win the Cup in the early 1990's, would be close to retirement age in their 60s.
Weztex
Registered User
- Feb 6, 2006
- 3,138
- 3,833
That, right there, should end the debate.
But it’s not the NHL Hall of Fame, so him not coming back have absolutely no bearing on the situation.
Same here. I never understood the big fuss about them getting in with active contracts. The HHOF isn’t managed by the NHL nor are they affiliated in any way. There’s no reason for the Hall to take into account business arrangements between players and a third party. Did he play pro hockey in the last 3 years? No. Are they attempting a comeback? No. Both those guys had already taken other jobs. Their playing days were clearly over. Them getting paid is not of the Hall’s business.
