Rasmus Ristolainen: The $5M, 0 percentile defenseman

bennysflyers16

Registered User
Jan 26, 2004
85,783
64,039
Lettuce is a quesadilla topping, not a quesadilla filler.

It triggers me, as there isn't a single member I can find that does not get them, but hold the lettuce, its so weird.

And I'm a lettuce guy.

Risto in Buffalo is like lettuce in a quesadilla, let's hope we can hold the lettuce while he is in Philly and no early extension.
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
The biggest problem with this Risto convo is that there's 2 groups of people. The one that listens to the fluffers that tell them that Risto is good so in their mind he's good and the other group that doesn't listen to the fluffers but watches his actual play and draws their conclusions from that.

If he's bad the first group will argue otherwise while the second group will call it like it is.
 
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Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
May 8, 2011
38,072
75,289
Philadelphia, Pa
The biggest problem with this Risto convo is that there's 2 groups of people. The one that listens to the fluffers that tell them that Risto is good so in their mind he's good and the other group that doesn't listen to the fluffers but watches his actual play and draws their conclusions from that.

If he's bad the first group will argue otherwise while the second group will call it like it is.

It's a new system.
New teammates.
New coaches.
He's dealing with residual effects of covid.
Not enough practice time due to covid.
Schedules are wonky because of covid.
Sanheim was out of position that one time.
The team around him just isn't that good.
He still looked better than he did in Buffalo.

There's already umpteen built in excuses for why he'll inevitably fail. Accept it now.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
79,218
86,984
Nova Scotia
The biggest problem with this Risto convo is that there's 2 groups of people. The one that listens to the fluffers that tell them that Risto is good so in their mind he's good and the other group that doesn't listen to the fluffers but watches his actual play and draws their conclusions from that.

If he's bad the first group will argue otherwise while the second group will call it like it is.
Except that could all be 100% false.

Braun and Niskanen were ripped by certain people when acquired and refused to admit that they had good/decent years.
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
Except that could all be 100% false.

Braun and Niskanen were ripped by certain people when acquired and refused to admit that they had good/decent years.
Fair enough there is a third group that will hate him no matter what. I do think most people fall into the first or second group.

FWIW I thought Niskanen was good and Braun was decent. I actually liked Braun's play in the playoffs with the Sharks the year before we acquired him.
 

thedjpd

Registered User
Sponsor
Dec 12, 2002
3,690
963
San Jose, CA
Except that could all be 100% false.

Braun and Niskanen were ripped by certain people when acquired and refused to admit that they had good/decent years.

This is a point I was trying to bring up.

People ripped Fletcher for those D moves too - and, they are definitely way better than we expected. I'm not saying GMs are infallible. But. just maybe, maybe - they actually can identify certain traits outside of pure stats - that could lend a player to be successful in a different situation?

In addition, it's okay to imply that GMs aren't necessarily the brightest or make the smartest moves all the time. They certainly can, and do. The better GMs are the ones that make the right move maybe (just a guess) 60% of the time and the wrong one 40%. It's easy in hindsight, and easy in isolation. But to say that all the GMs (the same ones who passed on Ghost) and many GMs (those that were willing to pay a 1st + for Risto) are making the exact same mistake that only us, as fans, see?

I really have trouble believing that, no matter what the numbers say. Here are the actual facts:

1) His stats are awful from Buffalo, in terms of analytical stats, and +/-
2) Points are good.
3) His environment was terrible and the impact of that is immeasurable.

Other key facts:

1) Is there precedent where an amazing player plays in Buffalo and stinks all around, and then becomes good again after? Yup.
2) Is there precedent where the Flyers management staff identifies "statistically poor" defenseman in a different situation and they come here and become successful? Yup.
3) Is there precedence where multiple players who were believed to have on-ice value provided nothing in terms of trade value? Yup.

Could this work out? Sure. Could it fail? Sure. But I think it's stupid to think that a player, from any team to another, will be the exact same player they were. Why? Because the situation and environment is different. And not measurable. It seems that everybody knows that facts are not the end all and be all, and are just some data, and can be somewhat arbitrary - but then use them as infallible predictors, all while discounting the situation.

I like what I've seen from him so far. I don't have false expectations that he's going to be immediately good, either. He may still play like he did previously for a while because that's what's he's done for 8 years. So even judging his "metrics" or performance on these 2 games so far is short-sighted at best. It takes time to get those habits out - will he? I don't know.

I'd rather root for his success and move on than try to be 'right' and continue to harp on how he got here, or what he did before here.

One final point: He brings an element that none of our top 6 d-men have. Period. That can't be argued. Did Ghost? Maybe, he's an offensive d-man who regularly struggled (recently at least) at providing offense consistently and was mediocre defensively. Those that are arguing he has a unique skillset can't then argue that Sanheim can't do what Ghost does (even if he isn't used that way - different issue there.). Nobody brings what Risto does, and that's not really up for debate.

Just my $.02.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,671
22,131
The biggest problem with this Risto convo is that there's 2 groups of people. The one that listens to the fluffers that tell them that Risto is good so in their mind he's good and the other group that doesn't listen to the fluffers but watches his actual play and draws their conclusions from that.

If he's bad the first group will argue otherwise while the second group will call it like it is.

Or maybe a third group that doesn't jump to conclusions until say 20 games into the season?
You know, people who've been around long enough to know that you shouldn't assume anything, let the season play out and see what happens.
I mean you could have rationally assumed when Wentz got hurt in 2017 that the Eagles season was over.
 
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Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
Or maybe a third group that doesn't jump to conclusions until say 20 games into the season?
You know, people who've been around long enough to know that you shouldn't assume anything, let the season play out and see what happens.
I mean you could have rationally assumed when Wentz got hurt in 2017 that the Eagles season was over.
I am personally waiting till we are 15 or so games into the season before I unload on certain players or the scheme being played and results they have.

As far as assumptions go if you watched a player over several years and the results weren't good or in the case of Duncan Keith they were once excellent and then declined badly it would be foolish to assume that they will all of a sudden have a massive turn around.

You can hope they play well but you need to go in with the expectation that what you see is what you get.
 

FlyersFanSinceBirth

Registered User
Jul 1, 2010
489
258
The biggest problem with this Risto convo is that there's 2 groups of people. The one that listens to the fluffers that tell them that Risto is good so in their mind he's good and the other group that doesn't listen to the fluffers but watches his actual play and draws their conclusions from that.

If he's bad the first group will argue otherwise while the second group will call it like it is.
So it's either you agree with the agenda being pushed on here or you're obviously being influenced by fluffers. Not at all possible that some people just think for themselves and aren't told what to think by fluffers or the geniuses on HFBoards.
 

Ironmanrulez

#nEvErrEbUiLd #nEvErpLaYyOuTh #nEverpLaYsKiLL
Jul 1, 2010
3,498
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Cologne, Germany
We need to find other talking points, if you want that to happen. But new threads are often ignored or spammed with funny 1 sentence jokes. One thing i dont like here from the beginning
 

Gsus

MVP
Feb 20, 2014
4,481
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Pori, Finland
That escalated quickly.

I thought it'd be better for Risto to have have his own sandbox where you can throw rocks at him or praise him, whatever need be. :)

Brings me a huge amount of joy to have someone who can toy with other players in physical battles. I've always enjoyed that part of the game very much.
 

Mestaruus

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
4,966
1,874
Was Ristolainen a healthy scratch last game or why didn't he play? I'm kind of surprised if so.
 

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