Rankings of European leagues 2020-2021 season

[SportsFan94]

Curious to see someone's updated Euro league rankings. I also wonder where the Asian league ranks with the Euro leagues.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I have Sweden over the KHL due to the fact there are just TOO MANY KHL and it waters down an already bad product

 

[Eye of Ra]

Curious to see someone's updated Euro league rankings. I also wonder where the Asian league ranks with the Euro leagues.

what do you think, that things has changed in just some months? no man.

asian league is probaly on the same level as french league

 

[SoundAndFury]

asian league is probaly on the same level as french league

Considering most of the players there are still local and the state of Korean/Japanese hockey it's lower than that. It's more like Latvian league only more top-heavy.

I have Sweden over the KHL due to the fact there are just TOO MANY KHL and it waters down an already bad product

KHL has 19 Russian teams, SHL has 14 teams. Russia has 14 times higher population and 12 cities with a population of over 1 million while Sweden has 1.

For you argument (if you can call it that) to be anywhere near correct Sweden should be absolutely crushing Russia in terms of player development while in reality, they are roughly equal so...

 

[vorky]

Considering most of the players there are still local and the state of Korean/Japanese hockey it's lower than that. It's more like Latvian league only more top-heavy.


KHL has 19 Russian teams, SHL has 14 teams. Russia has 14 times higher population and 12 cities with a population of over 1 million while Sweden has 1.

For you argument (if you can call it that) to be anywhere near correct Sweden should be absolutely crushing Russia in terms of player development while in reality, they are roughly equal so...

Plus Sweden has many adult players outside Sweden - 86 (NHL) + 39 (AHL) + 36 (KHL) + 17 (NL) according to EP. So 178 and I do not count Liiga. While Russians have players - 43 (NHL) + 32 (AHL) +2 (NL) + 0 (SHL). If Sweden had aroud 70-80 players outside Sweden, then we could talk and compare....

And of course, Russia is much bigger than Sweden.

 

[Elias40]

The first two places are clear, KHL and SHL do everything well. From the production of players, an excellent system of training coaches to the financial background. This is exactly what hockey should look like, but not every country has the know-how and the size of a country like Russia.

I personally have NL in third place. The style of hockey, the excellent quality of foreigners, full stadiums and a competitive home base. After Scandinavia, the Swiss were the first to understand that it would not pay off for anyone to give big money to average players from abroad. This role can be played by young Swiss for much less money. It also helps them say that their home stars are the best paid players in the entire league, so they don't have to go other leagues in Europe to make money, and once they leave, they're only heading to the NHL, they won't be interested in anything else.

This is followed by DEL, Liiga and Extraliga. Each of these three leagues has a different problem and is differently focused on what it considers important. The painful place that does not bother DEL and Liiga at all are the transfers tables. Only Czechs and Slovaks have this thing in Europe, to a certain extend it is also in the KHL, but there is it a built differently than in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Czech clubs thus create discrimination for their domestic players, because the tables severance pays does not apply to foreigners. So if the average or downright weak team decides to sign a player before the season, 90% will choose a foreigner. But with a big difference.. wherever Swiss clubs sign top quality, Czech clubs take the average Canadian, because the club only has to pay the player's pay check, if the club wants a Czech player, they have to pay the amount according to the tables and that does much more to the player's salary. That is why the Czech league is flooded with foreigners who do not have the necessary quality but will get a decent salary.

One nice example of a stupid system... Zdenek Sedlak was a player of a Czech club until he was a 15 years old, his team was called Zlin. Sedlak decided to move to Kärpät Oulu, so the Finnish club took care of its development and successful involvement in adult hockey. Sedlak is 21 years old and would like to return from Finland to the Czech Republic. He chooses from the offers of several clubs, the final decision is for example Sparta. So Sedlak will sign a contract with Sparta, but.. his former club from Zlin will call Sparta and say that according to the transfer table, they want a million Czechs crown. Sparta does not want to pay it because Sedlak is a free agent, the only cost for the club is his salary. But Zlin wants its milion and has right to it. I do not criticize Zlin, they just use the possibility of Czech legislation, which gives it a chance to get some money from Sedlak. Even though Zlin has been not interested in him for six years, now they get a chance to make money. For ten years, this model has been harshly criticized by people in the Czech Republic. but the federation says this problem is clubbing. The clubs say the transfers tables have been developed by the federation and the federation needs to make a change. I want to it write exactly as it is. So that people from Finland. Sweden, Germany Switzerland realize what an advantage they have when there is free trade and the do not have to experience what is perverse and illogical in the Czech Republic.

There is a strong Canadian tradition of players and coaches in German hockey. But even the Germans understood that they could develop fantastic talent in their country, such as Stützle, Seider or Peterka. That even in Germany you can raise players for the NHL. Therefore, I am glad that the powerplay 2026 program is reducing the number of of foreigners in DEL. Representatives of the German League and the German Hockey Federation agreed on this. Currently, DEL clubs can use nine foreigners per match, since 2026 it should be only six foreigners. It is a very ambitious step, but I think the Germans can do it.

The Germans would also need global hockey success to win Edmonton in the Stanley Cup. If that happened and Draisaitl had a big share in Edmonton's win, it could mean more children and larger membership. It is a pity that hockey in Germany is the third or fourth sport.

 

[vorky]

The first two places are clear, KHL and SHL do everything well. From the production of players, an excellent system of training coaches to the financial background. This is exactly what hockey should look like, but not every country has the know-how and the size of a country like Russia.

I personally have NL in third place. The style of hockey, the excellent quality of foreigners, full stadiums and a competitive home base. After Scandinavia, the Swiss were the first to understand that it would not pay off for anyone to give big money to average players from abroad. This role can be played by young Swiss for much less money. It also helps them say that their home stars are the best paid players in the entire league, so they don't have to go other leagues in Europe to make money, and once they leave, they're only heading to the NHL, they won't be interested in anything else.

This is followed by DEL, Liiga and Extraliga. Each of these three leagues has a different problem and is differently focused on what it considers important. The painful place that does not bother DEL and Liiga at all are the transfers tables. Only Czechs and Slovaks have this thing in Europe, to a certain extend it is also in the KHL, but there is it a built differently than in the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Czech clubs thus create discrimination for their domestic players, because the tables severance pays does not apply to foreigners. So if the average or downright weak team decides to sign a player before the season, 90% will choose a foreigner. But with a big difference.. wherever Swiss clubs sign top quality, Czech clubs take the average Canadian, because the club only has to pay the player's pay check, if the club wants a Czech player, they have to pay the amount according to the tables and that does much more to the player's salary. That is why the Czech league is flooded with foreigners who do not have the necessary quality but will get a decent salary.

One nice example of a stupid system... Zdenek Sedlak was a player of a Czech club until he was a 15 years old, his team was called Zlin. Sedlak decided to move to Kärpät Oulu, so the Finnish club took care of its development and successful involvement in adult hockey. Sedlak is 21 years old and would like to return from Finland to the Czech Republic. He chooses from the offers of several clubs, the final decision is for example Sparta. So Sedlak will sign a contract with Sparta, but.. his former club from Zlin will call Sparta and say that according to the transfer table, they want a million Czechs crown. Sparta does not want to pay it because Sedlak is a free agent, the only cost for the club is his salary. But Zlin wants its milion and has right to it. I do not criticize Zlin, they just use the possibility of Czech legislation, which gives it a chance to get some money from Sedlak. Even though Zlin has been not interested in him for six years, now they get a chance to make money. For ten years, this model has been harshly criticized by people in the Czech Republic. but the federation says this problem is clubbing. The clubs say the transfers tables have been developed by the federation and the federation needs to make a change. I want to it write exactly as it is. So that people from Finland. Sweden, Germany Switzerland realize what an advantage they have when there is free trade and the do not have to experience what is perverse and illogical in the Czech Republic.

There is a strong Canadian tradition of players and coaches in German hockey. But even the Germans understood that they could develop fantastic talent in their country, such as Stützle, Seider or Peterka. That even in Germany you can raise players for the NHL. Therefore, I am glad that the powerplay 2026 program is reducing the number of of foreigners in DEL. Representatives of the German League and the German Hockey Federation agreed on this. Currently, DEL clubs can use nine foreigners per match, since 2026 it should be only six foreigners. It is a very ambitious step, but I think the Germans can do it.

The Germans would also need global hockey success to win Edmonton in the Stanley Cup. If that happened and Draisaitl had a big share in Edmonton's win, it could mean more children and larger membership. It is a pity that hockey in Germany is the third or fourth sport.

I would like to comment on "tabulky" (a development fee in Czech hockey).

There is nothing wrong to have a development fee in your sport. This issue should be regulated by the world governing body (FIFA doing it). The problem is an extensive application as Czech hockey has been doing. If I know, but correct me if wrong, there is no age limit for tabulky. For example, FIFA has a development fee for U23 players when they sign their FIRST PRO-CONTRACT. If Czech tabulky worked like that, nothing wrong with it. But they do not...

From my point of view, what is a real backround & reason for tabulky in Czech hockey? Of course, clubs do not get money for players they develop. It is a global problem, Czech clubs do not get money from Swedish etc clubs for players if they sign in Sweden etc. IIHF should regulate this issue, but the IIHF is not doing it. The same problem if a player moves to Finland, KHL, NHL, Canadian junior etc. All these leagues, their clubs, should pay a development fee (tabulky) to Czech clubs. In NHL case we have NHL TA which is disadvantageous for Czech (Euro in general) clubs because Czech (Euro) club losing a right to demand more money for really good players. All the NHL pays is nothing else than a development fee. A transfer fee, negotiated on case to case base, is missing. And that is a huge problem!

As we know, all good and even average players left the Czech league after the collapse of the Czecho-Slovakia in 1989. For free. Many, if not all, moved to NHL. So, the Czech clubs lost, in one moment, all their best players & got no (appropriate) financial compensation. I say, if all be fair, Kladno should get for Jágr as much money as needed (for team´s day to day operations) for at least five seasons! Of course, the Czech clubs lack of money. Still. So, they "invented" tabulky. That is my understanding when tabulky appeared.

I think the problem will not be fixed until IIHF regulates all transfers, so adopting a development fee for all clubs & leagues & NHL TA needs to be cancelled & replaced by fair agreement (that agreement is not even needed if IIHF regulates the issue)

 

[Namejs]

Considering most of the players there are still local and the state of Korean/Japanese hockey it's lower than that. It's more like Latvian league only more top-heavy.


KHL has 19 Russian teams, SHL has 14 teams. Russia has 14 times higher population and 12 cities with a population of over 1 million while Sweden has 1.

For you argument (if you can call it that) to be anywhere near correct Sweden should be absolutely crushing Russia in terms of player development while in reality, they are roughly equal so...

No, the Asian league is worse than the Latvian league. A couple of Latvians have played there and produced more there than at home. It's basically semi-pro/amateur and closer to the French 2nd division.

As f0r Sweden, they actually have the most efficient hockey system on Earth, and they are ahead of Canada in that respect. And the number of registered players in Sweden is just modestly lower than in Russia.

The KHL is only a bigger league because there's more money there. And there's more money there because no one wants to play in Russia, so you're paying extra to a bunch of better import players. But it also has 40 Belarusians playing there, 27 Kazakhstanis, 10 Chinese guys, etc. There are some bad teams playing in the KHL, which would not be winning Allsvenskan in all likelihood.

The KHL has more skilled players, but the difference in the average quality of the teams is not that great.

 

[Elias40]

I would like to comment on "tabulky" (a development fee in Czech hockey).

There is nothing wrong to have a development fee in your sport. This issue should be regulated by the world governing body (FIFA doing it). The problem is an extensive application as Czech hockey has been doing. If I know, but correct me if wrong, there is no age limit for tabulky. For example, FIFA has a development fee for U23 players when they sign their FIRST PRO-CONTRACT. If Czech tabulky worked like that, nothing wrong with it. But they do not...

From my point of view, what is a real backround & reason for tabulky in Czech hockey? Of course, clubs do not get money for players they develop. It is a global problem, Czech clubs do not get money from Swedish etc clubs for players if they sign in Sweden etc. IIHF should regulate this issue, but the IIHF is not doing it. The same problem if a player moves to Finland, KHL, NHL, Canadian junior etc. All these leagues, their clubs, should pay a development fee (tabulky) to Czech clubs. In NHL case we have NHL TA which is disadvantageous for Czech (Euro in general) clubs because Czech (Euro) club losing a right to demand more money for really good players. All the NHL pays is nothing else than a development fee. A transfer fee, negotiated on case to case base, is missing. And that is a huge problem!

As we know, all good and even average players left the Czech league after the collapse of the Czecho-Slovakia in 1989. For free. Many, if not all, moved to NHL. So, the Czech clubs lost, in one moment, all their best players & got no (appropriate) financial compensation. I say, if all be fair, Kladno should get for Jágr as much money as needed (for team´s day to day operations) for at least five seasons! Of course, the Czech clubs lack of money. Still. So, they "invented" tabulky. That is my understanding when tabulky appeared.

I think the problem will not be fixed until IIHF regulates all transfers, so adopting a development fee for all clubs & leagues & NHL TA needs to be cancelled & replaced by fair agreement (that agreement is not even needed if IIHF regulates the issue)

Don't get mad, I usually agree with you, but I can't in this case. Your point of view is that if a player receives registration from a club, he only belongs to the club and cannot decide on his future. What solution do you have for a boy who is 14 years old and his club does not work well enough to reach his full potential? Then, logically, the boy is looking for a club that will develop his potential amd get him to a better level. In Finland, a club cannot contract with players/childrens if they are under 17 years old. And that is a great solution in my opinion. Because it gives to all players a free choice about their future. For example.. I am a Kalpa player, but I feel that if I go to Kärpät will help me more for my game development, because Kärpät or Tappara have been at the forefront of youth for a long time. In Finland, too, there are references to which club work with young people, and playersor parents decide which club to choose. I think Sebastian Aho choose Kärpät at the age of 12 and hade to move over half of Finland because Kärpät is a top youth team.

Is it a not problem for Swedish or Finnish clubs to have more support for their young players from the regions. Sweden and Finland are richer countries than Czech Republic., so they can afford to give more money to support sports, specifically hockey. I see another solution for Czech teams in his situation.

Why don't clubs put pressure on the federation for the federation to ask for more support for youth hockey? Why don't they say, look, every year 20 players go to Canada or Scandinavia to stay here to play in the junior league? So we're probably doing something wrong if our players don't trust our system and decide to leave. Your solution is to charge for everything, because those bad people from Canada or Scandinavia will steal all our players. If you pay for everything, no one will be interested Czech players and they wwill be trapped. You will restrict the freedom of decision, there will be no free market and movement. But nowhere is it automatically clear that your junior league will improve if you keep all the players at home. Yes, in the past it existed well in CSSSr and the USSR, but the only world competition was Canada and Sweden. Today there is the USA, Finland, Switzerland, Germany..and I don't think that the Czechia would be as successful as forty years ago.

 

[Albatros]

No, the Asian league is worse than the Latvian league. A couple of Latvians have played there and produced more there than at home. It's basically semi-pro/amateur and closer to the French 2nd division.

Sergejs Pečura and Edmunds Augstkalns are the only skaters, Jānis Auziņš the only goalie. All have played for the Latvian national team within a few years of their Asia League appearance.

Let's look at this more closely:

Jānis Auziņš G
18/19 Latvia 2.42 .922 (35 gp)
19/20 Asia 2.61 .920 (34 gp)

Edmunds Augstkalns D
18/19 Latvia 3+11=14 (33 gp; 0.42 ppg)
19/20 Asia 1+9=10 (35 gp; 0.29 ppg)
20/21 Latvia 1+4=5 (16 gp; 0.31 ppg) & HockeyEttan 3+3=6 (11 gp; 0.55 ppg)
21/22 HockeyEttan 1+2=3 (19 gp; 0.16 ppg)

Sergejs Pečura C/W
13/14 Latvia 7+11=18 (13 gp; 1.38 ppg)
14/15 Asia 19+22=41 (45 gp; 0.91 ppg)
15/16 Asia 17+26=43 (48 gp; 0.90 ppg)
16/17 Asia 16+31=47 (46 gp; 1.02 ppg)
17/18 France 5+6=11 (25 gp; 0.44 ppg) & Latvia 1+4=5 (11 gp; 0.45 ppg)
18/19 Latvia 5+14=19 (29 gp; 0.66 ppg)
19/20 Latvia 7+4=11 (24 gp; 0.46 ppg)
20/21 Latvia 8+29=37 (32 gp; 1.16 ppg)
21/22 Latvia 3+0=3 (4 gp; 0.75 ppg)

I don't see compelling evidence for the claim that the Latvian league would be stronger based on the success of Latvian players in the Asia League. It also would seem odd that players good enough to represent Latvia internationally join an amateur league abroad.

 

[SoundAndFury]

No, the Asian league is worse than the Latvian league. A couple of Latvians have played there and produced more there than at home. It's basically semi-pro/amateur and closer to the French 2nd division.

I mean a team like Anyang Halla is basically a slightly improved Korean NT, a D1A level team. That's not amateur level no matter how you spin it. Top 3-4 teams in Asia league play at roughly that level and would be serious title challengers in the Latvian league, just because a few Latvian guys got into good situations there doesn't change it. Not to mention what Albatros said, the "produced more than home" argument is hardly convincing in this case.

Sergejs Pečura and Edmunds Augstkalns are the only skaters, Jānis Auziņš the only goalie. All have played for the Latvian national team within a few years of their Asia League appearance.

Zolmanis could probably also be added to that list, he was above PPG player in Latvia for years before leaving to Japan even if he isn't playing in the Asia league technically.

 

[wingerdinger]

Home grown players are the lifeblood of any league, and I feel the swiss league has failed massively in this respect recently. For those who have followed euro leagues longer than me has that been reflected in the quality of the league.

 

[vorky]

Don't get mad, I usually agree with you, but I can't in this case. Your point of view is that if a player receives registration from a club, he only belongs to the club and cannot decide on his future. What solution do you have for a boy who is 14 years old and his club does not work well enough to reach his full potential? Then, logically, the boy is looking for a club that will develop his potential amd get him to a better level. In Finland, a club cannot contract with players/childrens if they are under 17 years old. And that is a great solution in my opinion. Because it gives to all players a free choice about their future. For example.. I am a Kalpa player, but I feel that if I go to Kärpät will help me more for my game development, because Kärpät or Tappara have been at the forefront of youth for a long time. In Finland, too, there are references to which club work with young people, and playersor parents decide which club to choose. I think Sebastian Aho choose Kärpät at the age of 12 and hade to move over half of Finland because Kärpät is a top youth team.

Is it a not problem for Swedish or Finnish clubs to have more support for their young players from the regions. Sweden and Finland are richer countries than Czech Republic., so they can afford to give more money to support sports, specifically hockey. I see another solution for Czech teams in his situation.

Why don't clubs put pressure on the federation for the federation to ask for more support for youth hockey? Why don't they say, look, every year 20 players go to Canada or Scandinavia to stay here to play in the junior league? So we're probably doing something wrong if our players don't trust our system and decide to leave. Your solution is to charge for everything, because those bad people from Canada or Scandinavia will steal all our players. If you pay for everything, no one will be interested Czech players and they wwill be trapped. You will restrict the freedom of decision, there will be no free market and movement. But nowhere is it automatically clear that your junior league will improve if you keep all the players at home. Yes, in the past it existed well in CSSSr and the USSR, but the only world competition was Canada and Sweden. Today there is the USA, Finland, Switzerland, Germany..and I don't think that the Czechia would be as successful as forty years ago.

I can agree with you.

I am doing nothing special with these rules, I just copy+paste FIFA transfer system. There are exemptions in the rules (a parent moves to another city, country etc).

I do not see nothing wrong if Czech prospect moves abroad. But, when he signs his first pro-contract (in Sweden, Finland, KHL, NHL), that foreign club should pay a development fee to his previous teams (FIFA calculates it, I believe, since a player is 12 years old).

The Canadian juniors are business, so they should pay for imports.

I do not know if you know all details how agents threaten to European clubs, when they are taking a prospect to abroad, especially to Canada. It has nothing to do with worse development conditions in player´s home, it is all about revenues for agents.

And the biggest problem, small & (financialy) weak European clubs do not get any money for developing a player. Transfer fee is a mystery. That is a problem we should discuss. Why can not such basic things work in hockey? My only explanation is because Canadian juniors & NHL benefiting from the system. And of course players who can do whatever they want, their contracts with European club is not worth of a paper. Look, Tatar signed a contract with Zvolen, very next day he said "the contract is not binding to me, I am leaving to NHL for free." Or, Hertl had a valid deal with Slavia for next season, but Czechs signed NHLTA so his contract with Slavia was not worth a paper... and, btw, Slavia was ready to negotiate with NHL club about transfer fee... tell me one reason why this could not happen in hockey?

 

[Elias40]

I can agree with you.

I am doing nothing special with these rules, I just copy+paste FIFA transfer system. There are exemptions in the rules (a parent moves to another city, country etc).

I do not see nothing wrong if Czech prospect moves abroad. But, when he signs his first pro-contract (in Sweden, Finland, KHL, NHL), that foreign club should pay a development fee to his previous teams (FIFA calculates it, I believe, since a player is 12 years old).

The Canadian juniors are business, so they should pay for imports.

I do not know if you know all details how agents threaten to European clubs, when they are taking a prospect to abroad, especially to Canada. It has nothing to do with worse development conditions in player´s home, it is all about revenues for agents.

And the biggest problem, small & (financialy) weak European clubs do not get any money for developing a player. Transfer fee is a mystery. That is a problem we should discuss. Why can not such basic things work in hockey? My only explanation is because Canadian juniors & NHL benefiting from the system. And of course players who can do whatever they want, their contracts with European club is not worth of a paper. Look, Tatar signed a contract with Zvolen, very next day he said "the contract is not binding to me, I am leaving to NHL for free." Or, Hertl had a valid deal with Slavia for next season, but Czechs signed NHLTA so his contract with Slavia was not worth a paper... and, btw, Slavia was ready to negotiate with NHL club about transfer fee... tell me one reason why this could not happen in hockey?

In the case of Hertl, I agree thart Slavia is entitled to compensation and all possible money should only go to Slavia because Hertl did not play another Prague club. Another situation is with Svozil. for example, he is not a Brno player but Prerov raised him. So Prerov and Brno should get the money. But is this the case with compensation from the NHL club? I don't think so at all. Necas is also not a pupil of Brno, but his first club is Zdar nad Sazavou and this club should get compensation, not that Brno gets everything, where he then played senior hockey. This is a big problem that no one wants to talk about, and if they do, Slavia or Brno will say that the NHL will take their players, but a small club will not interest them so much.

This is different when leaving for Sweden or Finland. If that hasn't changed, I feel like clubs in the north are doing a tryout every year. Which means in practice that for several days, 100 boys train and play matches against each other, and out of those 100 boys, the club chooses five players, for example. Those who fail can then head for another tryout and may succeed elsewhere. It's just a competitive struggle for a place. And one more thing, that a boy succeeds in a tryout does not automatically mean for his future a place in the team where he succeeded as 12, 13 or 14 years old. This means that he has a certain place in the club for the season, but he must have a constant performance. If he loses it, the club chooses another player. And admit yourself that from 13 to 18 he can jump a lot up or in the opposite direction and eventually return to the Czech Republic.

In the end, I see that they have the same problem in Russia and in the Czech Republic with agents. But Russia provides far better conditions for the development of young players, but they still flee to Canada under pressure from agents. This has no solution for all parties, the only way is dialogue. On the other hand ... The NHL is the most, I hope we can agree on that. There is nothing more than the NHL, agents, parents and players are aware of this in clubs in Europe. And I also do not agree that the Finnish club should pay compensation to the Czech club if it invites it to a tryout at the age of 13. He may or may not get the professional contract in five years, it is 50 to 50.

 

[vorky]

In the case of Hertl, I agree thart Slavia is entitled to compensation and all possible money should only go to Slavia because Hertl did not play another Prague club. Another situation is with Svozil. for example, he is not a Brno player but Prerov raised him. So Prerov and Brno should get the money. But is this the case with compensation from the NHL club? I don't think so at all. Necas is also not a pupil of Brno, but his first club is Zdar nad Sazavou and this club should get compensation, not that Brno gets everything, where he then played senior hockey. This is a big problem that no one wants to talk about, and if they do, Slavia or Brno will say that the NHL will take their players, but a small club will not interest them so much.

If I know, how it works in Sweden - and I do not see a reason why it should not work the same in Czech rep - that development fee paid by NHL as a league (not individual NHL club) is distributed to all clubs of said association where the player played the last four seasons.

Regarding Hertl, I talked something different. Slavia wanted to negotiate with NHL club about transfer fee - so, extra money for Slavia because he was good & had a valid contract. But, Slavia could not do that because of NHLTA - you know how it works, NHL clubs simply take any player from Europe & NHL pays a fixed fee (very small). All. European club has no right to keep a player in case of a valid contract with him because this contract with player ceased to exist ipso facto at the moment he signs in NHL. Hockey (Euro-NHL transfers) is the only sport in the world where it works like that. I wrote it elsewhere, but I will repeat to give you an example (how it differs). Pre Malkin-Ovie (so pre-KHL) the Russian hockey federation negotiated about the same NHLTA as Swedes, Czechs etc. Russians agreed with everything, even with that small development fee (but yeah, they wanted more for Malkin as a great talent). Russians wanted just one thing - NHL club has no right to sign a player with valid contract with Russian club. Of course, NHL did not agree, so no NHLTA for Russia. Why is this point so important for NHL? I know why... but.

This is different when leaving for Sweden or Finland. If that hasn't changed, I feel like clubs in the north are doing a tryout every year. Which means in practice that for several days, 100 boys train and play matches against each other, and out of those 100 boys, the club chooses five players, for example. Those who fail can then head for another tryout and may succeed elsewhere. It's just a competitive struggle for a place. And one more thing, that a boy succeeds in a tryout does not automatically mean for his future a place in the team where he succeeded as 12, 13 or 14 years old. This means that he has a certain place in the club for the season, but he must have a constant performance. If he loses it, the club chooses another player. And admit yourself that from 13 to 18 he can jump a lot up or in the opposite direction and eventually return to the Czech Republic.

In the end, I see that they have the same problem in Russia and in the Czech Republic with agents. But Russia provides far better conditions for the development of young players, but they still flee to Canada under pressure from agents. This has no solution for all parties, the only way is dialogue. On the other hand ... The NHL is the most, I hope we can agree on that. There is nothing more than the NHL, agents, parents and players are aware of this in clubs in Europe. And I also do not agree that the Finnish club should pay compensation to the Czech club if it invites it to a tryout at the age of 13. He may or may not get the professional contract in five years, it is 50 to 50.

I recommend you to read FIFA transfer rules, if you are interested in U18 players, read the chapter about protection of minors. And then compare it with IIHF rules.

Regarding the NHL, fine, I have no problem. I have a huge problem if NHL clubs, as well as other leagues´ clubs, take a player for free or forcing NHLTA globally. You can not rip the European clubs off a right to demand a transfer fee for a player. I still do not understand why European leagues do not demand the same as Russians (no NHL contract if there is valid contract in Sweden etc). Now, the ideal conditions coming for Europeans to demand it.

 

[RBbandit]

What solution do you have for a boy who is 14 years old and his club does not work well enough to reach his full potential? Then, logically, the boy is looking for a club that will develop his potential amd get him to a better level.

This is frankly one of few key problems in the development of young Czech players. A lot of players in the age group 14-15 just stop playing hockey because at this time they have to choose a high school and if school is in different city/county and they want to play for a club closer to them their parents or new club have to pay old club the"tabulky". There is an example like 150.000 CZK/5.700E for 15 old kid (back from 2014).

 

[Elias40]

I recommend you to read FIFA transfer rules, if you are interested in U18 players, read the chapter about protection of minors. And then compare it with IIHF rules.

Regarding the NHL, fine, I have no problem. I have a huge problem if NHL clubs, as well as other leagues´ clubs, take a player for free or forcing NHLTA globally. You can not rip the European clubs off a right to demand a transfer fee for a player. I still do not understand why European leagues do not demand the same as Russians (no NHL contract if there is valid contract in Sweden etc). Now, the ideal conditions coming for Europeans to demand it.​

FIFA and IIHF cannot be compared, these worlds are different. How many transfers in the summer will happen in football and how many in hockey? That volume is much higher in football and it is so logical that FIFA must defend small clubs. It is also completely different how much money is spent in football and how much in hockey. As I wrote in another thread, my suggestion is that now the NHLTA pays a fixed 250k per year. Let's increase it by 50k every year until we get to a fixed amount of 500k. At that point, cap it, wait 1-2 years for both parties to react, and then agree along the lines of the NHL and NHLPA and make a collective agreement. The current contract is unfavorable for clubs in Europe, because 250k is really not enough if the club puts its energy and time into improvement into the player. But it is also important that European clubs come together and clearly define together what the future treaty is supposed to bring them and what the NHLTA must give way to. You can't just push one side against the wall and expect it to succumb and sign everything.

Regarding Hertl, I talked something different. Slavia wanted to negotiate with NHL club about transfer fee - so, extra money for Slavia because he was good & had a valid contract. But, Slavia could not do that because of NHLTA - you know how it works, NHL clubs simply take any player from Europe & NHL pays a fixed fee (very small). All. European club has no right to keep a player in case of a valid contract with him because this contract with player ceased to exist ipso facto at the moment he signs in NHL. Hockey (Euro-NHL transfers) is the only sport in the world where it works like that. I wrote it elsewhere, but I will repeat to give you an example (how it differs). Pre Malkin-Ovie (so pre-KHL) the Russian hockey federation negotiated about the same NHLTA as Swedes, Czechs etc. Russians agreed with everything, even with that small development fee (but yeah, they wanted more for Malkin as a great talent). Russians wanted just one thing - NHL club has no right to sign a player with valid contract with Russian club. Of course, NHL did not agree, so no NHLTA for Russia. Why is this point so important for NHL? I know why... but.

Wasn't Hertl's problem precisely that the Czech Republic did not have a contract to leave for the NHL and he could leave them for free, because he understood that playing in Slavia would not bring him anything and would not move him anywhere? Hertl wanted to leave for the NHL, SJS drafted him in the first round in 2012 and played in Slavia for another year, but after the next season in the Czech Republic he wanted to leave but his club prevented him from leaving because at that time the departure agreement had not been approved and signed. NHL players between the IIHF and the NHL. If they did not have time to sign it by a certain date, then Slavia Hertla could keep it in the Czech Republic for another year. But what would she gain? Angry player, broken relationship between player, agent and club ... so in the end it's a good thing he left a year after the draft.

 

[vorky]

I recommend you to read FIFA transfer rules, if you are interested in U18 players, read the chapter about protection of minors. And then compare it with IIHF rules.

Regarding the NHL, fine, I have no problem. I have a huge problem if NHL clubs, as well as other leagues´ clubs, take a player for free or forcing NHLTA globally. You can not rip the European clubs off a right to demand a transfer fee for a player. I still do not understand why European leagues do not demand the same as Russians (no NHL contract if there is valid contract in Sweden etc). Now, the ideal conditions coming for Europeans to demand it.​

FIFA and IIHF cannot be compared, these worlds are different. How many transfers in the summer will happen in football and how many in hockey? That volume is much higher in football and it is so logical that FIFA must defend small clubs. It is also completely different how much money is spent in football and how much in hockey. As I wrote in another thread, my suggestion is that now the NHLTA pays a fixed 250k per year. Let's increase it by 50k every year until we get to a fixed amount of 500k. At that point, cap it, wait 1-2 years for both parties to react, and then agree along the lines of the NHL and NHLPA and make a collective agreement. The current contract is unfavorable for clubs in Europe, because 250k is really not enough if the club puts its energy and time into improvement into the player. But it is also important that European clubs come together and clearly define together what the future treaty is supposed to bring them and what the NHLTA must give way to. You can't just push one side against the wall and expect it to succumb and sign everything.

I will start from the end. You say, you can not just push etc. Do you know what? It looks like exactly this happened when the NHLTA was signed.

I did not read the other thread, so I will just comment on your words here. I agree soccer & hockey are different animals. I see no reason why should not the IIHF "defend small clubs." The IIHF should do it.

Europeans should demand for 1000% the following rule - NHL clubs honouring the players contracts with European clubs.

Wasn't Hertl's problem precisely that the Czech Republic did not have a contract to leave for the NHL and he could leave them for free, because he understood that playing in Slavia would not bring him anything and would not move him anywhere? Hertl wanted to leave for the NHL, SJS drafted him in the first round in 2012 and played in Slavia for another year, but after the next season in the Czech Republic he wanted to leave but his club prevented him from leaving because at that time the departure agreement had not been approved and signed. NHL players between the IIHF and the NHL. If they did not have time to sign it by a certain date, then Slavia Hertla could keep it in the Czech Republic for another year. But what would she gain? Angry player, broken relationship between player, agent and club ... so in the end it's a good thing he left a year after the draft.

If I remember it correctly, the Czech side just signed the NHLTA. The point is that Slavia (other Euro club) did not have any right. That is the problem. I understand why NHL is doing it, they get great players for 2¢. I have a problem with European leagues/clubs/federations/IIHF accepting this.

 

[Elias40]

This is frankly one of few key problems in the development of young Czech players. A lot of players in the age group 14-15 just stop playing hockey because at this time they have to choose a high school and if school is in different city/county and they want to play for a club closer to them their parents or new club have to pay old club the"tabulky". There is an example like 150.000 CZK/5.700E for 15 old kid (back from 2014).

In the Czech Republic, there should have been a connection with the school and the club for a long time. And this connection could be provided by the federation, taken under it and gradually improved. This is how I think it works in Sweden. The federation has developed a plan for hockey players who go to a hockey grammar school. They have trainings from 8-9 on the ice, then an off-ice hour, together they go to school, where they are until 4 pm, and then training again. So I think it works in Frölund. And in that school they have 4-5 most important subjects if they did not play hockey, so they are not overwhelmed by millions of unnecessary information like in the Czech Republic. The Swedes have to go to school, it doesn't work like in the Czech Republic, where children sometimes come to school and sometimes they don't, because one day they will make a living playing hockey and they don't need school.

So people from the federation and people from the Ministry of Education have to sit down at a table and set the conditions so that hockey players don't have to go to the ice at 6 o'clock in the morning, as is the case in clubs now. This area has been desperately neglected for a long time and no one in 30 years of freedom and democracy has been able to remedy it. When there were communists in the CSSR, something similar to what I write worked.

My suggestion is that I would do the same as in Finland. Under 17 no contract, no tables and restrictions. Just one restriction ... you start the season at the club, don't you like the club after three months? So leave after the season. At that moment, you would see which club works with the youth and you would distribute subsidies for the operation of the youth accordingly. Are you doing things wrong, the players are running away from you and the club isn't working? Sorry dude, you get less money to run the youth. I would give some compensation to the smaller clubs when the player plays two seasons in adult hockey and gets his place. Then I would pay the money depending on where the player played and how long he played. But there must be time for this model, clubs must prepare to cancel the tables and this cannot be done in a few months.

 

[RBbandit]

.....My suggestion is that I would do the same as in Finland. Under 17 no contract, no tables and restrictions. Just one restriction ... you start the season at the club, don't you like the club after three months? So leave after the season. At that moment, you would see which club works with the youth and you would distribute subsidies for the operation of the youth accordingly. Are you doing things wrong, the players are running away from you and the club isn't working? Sorry dude, you get less money to run the youth. I would give some compensation to the smaller clubs when the player plays two seasons in adult hockey and gets his place. Then I would pay the money depending on where the player played and how long he played. But there must be time for this model, clubs must prepare to cancel the tables and this cannot be done in a few months.

It makes too much sense to be implemented in CZ hockey . Really hope at least something similar to what you are proposing will be introduced in the not much distant future. There are probably some changes in summer but generally many do not see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Elias40]

It makes too much sense to be implemented in CZ hockey . Really hope at least something similar to what you are proposing will be introduced in the not much distant future. There are probably some changes in summer but generally many do not see any light at the end of the tunnel.

It doesn't make sense to me if I divide the subsidies in a style that everyone gets the same. It just can't work because every team works differently or does things differently and should be evaluated according to an objective key. And this key must be agreed upon by the clubs themselves, not the federations, because there is always a voice that questions this key. My proposal is just the view of an amateur fan, so that I can elaborate on that proposal in some way, I would need to see the club's budget and what is included in that budget. Just for people to know what the club spends money on, if it's not the club owner's money. It is a private matter of the owner, public funds from the state or federation must be publicly known. But this is exactly the thing people from the club are most afraid of ... more transparency in Czech hockey, please.

I would also like to see how much money the club gives to youth coaches. At this point, I see a huge reserve and poorly set salaries against what is in Finland. There are really a lot of problems, I could write it here for hours. Towards the end of your post - I also think that no radical change will come. People who are paid well enough by the federation and do not have much responsibility will have a huge interest in finding a loyal person who wins the election but will not have much effort to break the old structures. I have lived in the Czech Republic too long to believe in changing and improving the way the federation works, I don't think that will happen. But some changes will come nothing drastically.

 

[Czechboy]

It doesn't make sense to me if I divide the subsidies in a style that everyone gets the same. It just can't work because every team works differently or does things differently and should be evaluated according to an objective key. And this key must be agreed upon by the clubs themselves, not the federations, because there is always a voice that questions this key. My proposal is just the view of an amateur fan, so that I can elaborate on that proposal in some way, I would need to see the club's budget and what is included in that budget. Just for people to know what the club spends money on, if it's not the club owner's money. It is a private matter of the owner, public funds from the state or federation must be publicly known. But this is exactly the thing people from the club are most afraid of ... more transparency in Czech hockey, please.

I would also like to see how much money the club gives to youth coaches. At this point, I see a huge reserve and poorly set salaries against what is in Finland. There are really a lot of problems, I could write it here for hours. Towards the end of your post - I also think that no radical change will come. People who are paid well enough by the federation and do not have much responsibility will have a huge interest in finding a loyal person who wins the election but will not have much effort to break the old structures. I have lived in the Czech Republic too long to believe in changing and improving the way the federation works, I don't think that will happen. But some changes will come nothing drastically.

A part of me thinks if they did have a good transfer agreement and got paid for these players... The owner would be richer and no one else.

 

[Elias40]

A part of me thinks if they did have a good transfer agreement and got paid for these players... The owner would be richer and no one else.

More money to the club for transfers of players to the NA would not completely solve the whole problem. It is important that the severance pay goes back to hockey, so if Brno gets the money for Svozil, Prerov must also get the money. On this principle, you can build a seeming basis for the functioning of hockey. A small club should be a partner of a large one and a supplier to a higher competition, and this is where the problem arises. A problem that Finland does not solve for another funding system. In the Czech Republic, it happens that a small club has a promising player and applies tables to him, a larger club will buy him out (often paid by his parents ...) and he will go to a larger club. But in a bigger club he doesn't play as many minutes as in a smaller club, yet parents and bigger clubs will take this step, because it is more prestigious to play for Sparta than for Kralupy. Children are children, some are more physically mature than the other child, so it may seem that a smaller and physically worse child will not be such a good player. In children's hockey, it is difficult to recognize how the little players will be in 5-6 years, so it is vital to have a place to place boys who are physically lagging behind but can do things with a puck that a big boy will not do. That's why Finns and Swedes can afford to let these little boys play in their teams and pull them higher at the right time. They have competitions and a base for that, which is unrealistic for the Czech Republic, Slovakia or Germany and it doesn't make much sense to compare them in this regard.

From my point of view, it is a bad thing if the youth is not separated from the senior team. If that were the case, all the money for the youth would have to end up in the youth, the last crown. And use that money from public sources, so if I order 100 sticks and pay for them, I want to see those 100 sticks. Not that I pay for 80 hockey sticks and write in the invoice that I bought 100 of them. This is and will be a problem every day in Czech hockey. Inefficiently used money, no control of where this money goes, compared to the world of miserable salaries of children's coaches ... but whenever it is possible to ask for financial support from the government or the region, hockey officials are the first to reach out and shout that their club has little money . In the north, it is the case that the regions support the youth and the senior team is a different entity. If money comes to the NA to leave the NA, the money is invested back into the youth so that in a year or two someone leaves again to represent their club in the NHL / AHL and then represent Sweden or Finland in international competitions. There is no first thought that I, as the owner, will take the money for the player to go to the NA and put it in my own pocket. Re-investment is exactly the thing that gives children a good impression of playing in this club, because Dahlin, Sedin, Naslund or Lidström have grown up in this club, just a positive role model. Look at Litvínov, have a number of players made a name for themselves in the NHL or in the international competition for the Czech Republic and today? There is not a single offspring of the club in their senior team today, all players from other cities or from another country.

 

[Elias40]

When comparing the quality of European leagues, I would also have one question to compare quality. Which league do you think is the best if you compare finances, quality of life and interest in hockey in a given country? Simply if you add all the factors together, which league will be the best for you in all respects?

 

[Albatros]

When comparing the quality of European leagues, I would also have one question to compare quality. Which league do you think is the best if you compare finances, quality of life and interest in hockey in a given country? Simply if you add all the factors together, which league will be the best for you in all respects?

Switzerland very easily.