Rankings of European leagues 2020-2021 season

[Puck Dogg]

Still, I remember TSN showing a CHL game with Kometa Brno and I was so excited because my hometown team was playing on TSN!!! I tuned in and this was Kometa at their peak of back to back championships. They benched everybody.. no Necas, No Erat, No Vejlmejka... it was the third goalie and the B team. I suspect that happens consistently with all the nations.

What I've watched CHL games I can't say that teams would play their B rosters. Some small changes and starting goalie can happen.

CHL is far from perfect but it gives some indication, as for example Swedish teams success shows.

 

[Czechboy]

What I've watched CHL games I can't say that teams would play their B rosters. Some small changes and starting goalie can happen.

CHL is far from perfect but it gives some indication, as for example Swedish teams success shows.

Using chl shows in the last 4 years that swedish and Czech league are the best. Even I know that isn't true.

Swedes could lose every game in chl and everyone would still know they are clearly number two in europe behind khl. I have never seen anyone argue otherwise. It's blatantly obvious

 

[Eye of Ra]

People who laugh at me ranking Slovakian league so low should think for a second why there is not a single team from Slovakia in CL: IIHF - CHL teams set

Even France and Ukraine have a team.

 

[tobu]

People who laugh at me ranking Slovakian league so low should think for a second why there is not a single team from Slovakia in CL: IIHF - CHL teams set

Even France and Ukraine have a team.

The main reason why there is no single Slovak team, is that they opted out from participating.

 

[Namejs]

KHL

SHL

Extraliga CZE
NL
Liiga

DEL

ICEHL
Extraliga SVK

Allsvenskan
VHL

SL
Mestis

Denmark
Norway
EIHL
France
CZE 2

Belarus

Latvia
AlpsHL
Poland
Ukraine

Erste liga
Italy
HockeyEttan

getting too deep into amateur territory now

 

[SoundAndFury]

This is more or less sensible although the Belarussian league is too low (since it has now been split into two and the top division is definitely very competitive) and the Polish league has improved a lot over the recent years, it has created a gap between purely semi-pro leagues it's grouped up with here.

VHL is too high since the league is so watered down by the terrible teams. If it was a 16-team, not the 26-team league I would agree with its ranking.

Oh, Mestis is also ridiculously high for no real reason at this point, Liiga expansion killed that league completely.

 

[Eye of Ra]

KHL

SHL

Extraliga CZE
NL
Liiga

DEL

ICEHL
Extraliga SVK

Allsvenskan
VHL

SL
Mestis

Denmark
Norway
EIHL
France
CZE 2

Belarus

Latvia
AlpsHL
Poland
Ukraine

Erste liga
Italy
HockeyEttan

getting too deep into amateur territory now

why ukraine league that high

 

[Namejs]

why ukraine league that high

It's practically at the bottom of leagues containing any sort of full-time pros. I wouldn't call that high.

Ukraine actually used to play in the highest tier of international hockey. They have a decent enough hockey tradition, player base, but a third world economy. So what you get is a decent amount of relatively competent local players with almost no imports. Donbass is an exception, I guess.

I mean, you could rank it with Erste liga or whatever, but in the grand scheme of things that's about where they should be ranked, give or take.

 

[Namejs]

This is more or less sensible although the Belarussian league is too low (since it has now been split into two and the top division is definitely very competitive) and the Polish league has improved a lot over the recent years, it has created a gap between purely semi-pro leagues it's grouped up with here.

VHL is too high since the league is so watered down by the terrible teams. If it was a 16-team, not the 26-team league I would agree with its ranking.

Oh, Mestis is also ridiculously high for no real reason at this point, Liiga expansion killed that league completely.

I guess you're right for the most part. Not entirely convinced about VHL or Poland, though. Especially VHL. It's not very easy to produce there and most top line players in VHL can actually hold their own in KHL, which wouldn't be the case for the tiers below.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's not very easy to produce there and most top line players in VHL can actually hold their own in KHL, which wouldn't be the case for the tiers below.

Again, you are talking about the very best teams. There are, however, also teams like this who can barely hold their own in the VHL. And it's hard to produce because the hockey there is defensive to a ridiculous extent because such teams go with the "we might not score, we might not win but at least we won't embarrass ourselves" mindset. And it's not just one team, the worst of the worst, pretty much the entire bottom half is like that.

 

[Ciccarelli]

Kinda silly to put czech extraliga above finnish Liiga really. Just look at the transaction between the two leagues. Czech team in the upcoming world's have 5 players from Liiga and Liiga teams bring in top EHT-level guys from extraliga every year (Lakatos, Langhammer, Scotca top of my head for next season). Could you imagine this happening the other way around?

 

[A Bundy]

Is the EIHL really this strong? Just realized that Brits are a minority in their only league accorning to Eliteprospects, but that can't be a complete list. 100 % biased here, but on the minor leagues I would think that Allsvenskan is in general a bit underestimated, and the Norwegian league is a nodge better than the Danish. Denmark have better top-end talent, but the Norwegian development system is broaded and more poplulous. Also some more money in the Norwegian league. The Swedish play-off system is PHD material, but it seams to me that the best Allsvenskanteams are transitioning quite well to SHL, and the level is not that far off? I think they could have expanded SHL with four new teams without noticing any difference in quality, but I might be wrong.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Kinda silly to put czech extraliga above finnish Liiga really. Just look at the transaction between the two leagues. Czech team in the upcoming world's have 5 players from Liiga and Liiga teams bring in top EHT-level guys from extraliga every year (Lakatos, Langhammer, Scotca top of my head for next season). Could you imagine this happening the other way around?

Yet the level (and pay) difference is minor enough that most of these guys either move on to better leagues in 1-2 years or go back. The reason for the lack of players moving from Liiga to Extraliga is the same as for the lack of foreigners in Extraliga in general - Czech salaries just aren't competitive for Scandinavian or NA players of sufficient quality. That, however, also proves that the baseline of what Czech player Czech team gets for a certain salary is pretty damn decent.

At the end of the day, they are really close because all the truly best players get funneled into the better leagues anyway. And one could make a point pretty much the same amount makes the KHL from Extraliga as do from Liiga meaning most players do keep playing at home until they reach the KHL level.

Is the EIHL really this strong? Just realized that Brits are a minority in their only league accorning to Eliteprospects, but that can't be a complete list. 100 % biased here, but on the minor leagues I would think that Allsvenskan is in general a bit underestimated, and the Norwegian league is a nodge better than the Danish. Denmark have better top-end talent, but the Norwegian development system is broaded and more poplulous. Also some more money in the Norwegian league. The Swedish play-off system is PHD material, but it seams to me that the best Allsvenskanteams are transitioning quite well to SHL, and the level is not that far off? I think they could have expanded SHL with four new teams without noticing any difference in quality, but I might be wrong.

I wouldn't say being grouped up with bottom-tier professional leagues is "this strong" but yeah, it is pretty close to Norwegian and Danish leagues. You can see players cycling quite rapidly between those 3 and DEL2 (which is missing completely in Namejs' list). Maybe EIHL is the weakest out of 4 but it is close.

Regarding the Allsvenskan, it used to be true before the last SHL expansion but now the gap between the average SHL and Allsvenskan team is huge. Naturally, if you compare the best in Allsvenskan to the worst in SHL it is pretty close but absorbing the teams that can maybe hang with the worst you got is how the top-tier leagues, on average, become weaker.

In my opinion, it's faulty thinking, the expansion policy. It hurts both leagues (1st and 2nd) when the standard to the expansion team is to be as good as the worst team currently in the league. And that's how teams like Jukurit get into the top division - the team that was Mestis powerhouse and hasn't made into Liiga top-10 ever since expansion. The same is 100% happening in Switzerland. Even before Switzerland had perennial relegation contenders so now those are saved by adding even more weak teams that are just food for the big dogs.

 

[Albatros]

There are, however, also teams like this who can barely hold their own in the VHL.

How tf is Gomolyako's son 5'9"?

 

[Ciccarelli]

Yet the level (and pay) difference is minor enough that most of these guys either move on to better leagues in 1-2 years or go back. The reason for the lack of players moving from Liiga to Extraliga is the same as for the lack of foreigners in Extraliga in general - Czech salaries just aren't competitive for Scandinavian or NA players of sufficient quality. That, however, also proves that the baseline of what Czech player Czech team gets for a certain salary is pretty damn decent.

At the end of the day, they are really close because all the truly best players get funneled into the better leagues anyway. And one could make a point pretty much the same amount makes the KHL from Extraliga as do from Liiga meaning most players do keep playing at home until they reach the KHL level.

I dont know what your point was but it doesnt dispute what I said.

 

[Albatros]

KHL

SHL

Extraliga CZE
NL
Liiga

DEL

ICEHL
Extraliga SVK

Allsvenskan
VHL

SL
Mestis

Denmark
Norway
EIHL
France
CZE 2

Belarus

Latvia
AlpsHL
Poland
Ukraine

Erste liga
Italy
HockeyEttan

getting too deep into amateur territory now

DEL2 definitely belongs on the list too if amateur hockey is your cutoff point, I'd argue it compares not unfavorably to Mestis currently.

 

[Goodman68]

Kinda silly to put czech extraliga above finnish Liiga really. Just look at the transaction between the two leagues. Czech team in the upcoming world's have 5 players from Liiga and Liiga teams bring in top EHT-level guys from extraliga every year (Lakatos, Langhammer, Scotca top of my head for next season). Could you imagine this happening the other way around?

Money (it doesn't have to be such a big difference), quality of life. As for the quality of hockey, I agree that the Liiga is a bit better, but the leagues are comparable.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I dont know what your point was but it doesnt dispute what I said.

The point was that a few inter-league transfers in a vacuum aren't tell-all about the quality of hockey that's played. I remember you defending Liiga vs NLA as well despite NLA having unquestionably better salaries.

How tf is Gomolyako's son 5'9"?

To quote Sir Alex Ferguson, "I'd check the milkman"

 

[Ciccarelli]

Money (it doesn't have to be such a big difference), quality of life. As for the quality of hockey, I agree that the Liiga is a bit better, but the leagues are comparable.

Yeah, and I all I said was that it is silly to put the Extraliga ABOVE Liiga.

Would be nice to hear the arguments in favor of Extraliga. Young domestic domestic players? Imports? Something I ve heard in the past is that Extraliga has better experienced domestic guys, but the eye test doesn't check out. IMO guys like Kontiola, Kuusela, Peltola, Aaltonen, Koskiranta, Ohtamaa etc. arent worse than their Extraliga counterparts.

 

[A Bundy]

I wouldn't say being grouped up with bottom-tier professional leagues is "this strong" but yeah, it is pretty close to Norwegian and Danish leagues.

Txs for clarifying reply! This is a relative assessment, and I have beer-league perspective I guess The top Norwegian teams have been quite competetive in the CHL (Storhamar & Stavanger), but again CHL is what it is. Back in the 80s Norwegian teams lost by ten goals to Finnish teams, and top Norwegian teams god whipped by NCAA III teams in the 90s. Hockey has developed a lot over the years, and at least the level is quite a lot closer between these lagues now than it used to be. Growing up in the 80s and 90s I once watched a player smoke a cigarette on the bench in the intermission.

 

[Goodman68]

Yeah, and I all I said was that it is silly to put the Extraliga ABOVE Liiga.

Would be nice to hear the arguments in favor of Extraliga. Young domestic domestic players? Imports? Something I ve heard in the past is that Extraliga has better experienced domestic guys, but the eye test doesn't check out. IMO guys like Kontiola, Kuusela, Peltola, Aaltonen, Koskiranta, Ohtamaa etc. arent worse than their Extraliga counterparts.

I'm just discussing, I'm not contradicting

 

[Ciccarelli]

The point was that a few inter-league transfers in a vacuum aren't tell-all about the quality of hockey that's played. I remember you defending Liiga vs NLA as well despite NLA having unquestionably better salaries.

First of all, things tend to change through the years. 10 years ago I wouldve defended Liiga vs. SHL. Now there is no case.

My Liiga vs. Extraliga comparison had bothing to do with salaries, in fact the net salary in Extraliga is at the same level with Liiga. What the czech players moving to Finland tells us is the fact that they view Liiga as better place to take the next step in their careers. And it is not just a few players. Sulak, Klok, Moravcik, Smejkal, Scotka, Langhammer, Lakatos, Skalicky and more that I forgot, just during this and the next season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Would be nice to hear the arguments in favor of Extraliga. Young domestic domestic players?

They are close. See, Namejs placed gaps and no gaps between the leagues he considered to be close and not close. And once again, he probably does NLA way bigger disservice by sticking with Liiga and Extraliga but the level there is reasonably close. The argument is that the local league pays enough for the players for them to not be worth moving until contracts from truly big leagues (mostly KHL) come in. That's why there are almost no Czechs (there are a couple of dual-nationals) in the DEL despite those two being neighboring countries. You don't see that league just leaking talent left and right. This is a similar situation to the one Finland is currently in (it also has become an old men league now).

First of all, things tend to change through the years.

I understand. Point was that you are familiar with the concept of better-paying league not necessarily being decisively better.

Txs for clarifying reply! This is a relative assessment, and I have beer-league perspective I guess The top Norwegian teams have been quite competetive in the CHL (Storhamar & Stavanger), but again CHL is what it is.

So have the EIHL ones, Nottingham even managed to finish 1st in the group in 17/18.

 

[Namejs]

DEL2 definitely belongs on the list too if amateur hockey is your cutoff point, I'd argue it compares not unfavorably to Mestis currently.

You're right, I forgot about DEL2. It probably ranks together with Denmark/Norway/Mestis.

 

[Exarz]

Regarding the Allsvenskan, it used to be true before the last SHL expansion but now the gap between the average SHL and Allsvenskan team is huge. Naturally, if you compare the best in Allsvenskan to the worst in SHL it is pretty close but absorbing the teams that can maybe hang with the worst you got is how the top-tier leagues, on average, become weaker.

I'd say that Allsvenskan has become much stronger over the past 2-3 years. The bigger teams in Allsvenskan have started to actually take care of their market potential in order to gain more revenue, and I believe teams like Björklöven, Modo, Timrå (who got promoted this season), Södertälje or Västerås would not really struggle to establish themselves in the SHL over a 3 year period. And remember that HV71 just got relegated, making Allsvenskan even more interesting/stronger depending on how you wish to view it

Just like in every other league, bigger market teams have started to play a bigger role in Allsvenskan. So over the next 5 years, I'd suggest that there will be a rather big divide between the top- and bottom-teams, and the top teams in Allsvenskan will be much, much closer to the bottom 4-6 in the SHL.