The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Fjordsen]

I'm going to let what I wrote, (and which you quoted), be my response here. And now we are full circle

That's the problem, he doesn't make any movements that take our needs into account, it's literally the same as bad movements, although where is the line between bad movements? For some it may be a bad movement, and for others it may be a good one. When we really needed a top 4 RD and he didn't do a damn thing while during this time teams traded 4-5 top 4 RD without trade protection.

 

[Irie]

That's the problem, he doesn't make any movements that take our needs into account, it's literally the same as bad movements, although where is the line between bad movements? For some it may be a bad movement, and for others it may be a good one. When we really needed a top 4 RD and he didn't do a damn thing while during this time teams traded 4-5 top 4 RD without trade protection.

That's not really the problem, it is just a side effect of the problem. The real problem is that the owner is a billionaire oil guy who has put himself in charge of hockey operations and is involved in all the decisions, but doesn't actually know they first thing about hockey.

Given those facts, sometimes it is better that no moves are made because the likelihood of the moves not being bad is really small.

The people that make the drafting decisions are alright at their jobs, so having them do what they do and having Adams and Terry not do anything destructive might just be the best we can hope for until Terry removes himself from the equation and a real hockey person who is good at his job is installed in the position of president of hockey operations, at which time they will likely replace or relocate Adams.

 

[Fjordsen]

That's not really the problem, it is just a side effect of the problem. The real problem is that the owner is a billionaire oil guy who has put himself in charge of hockey operations and is involved in all the decisions, but doesn't actually know they first thing about hockey.

Given those facts, sometimes it is better that no moves are made because the likelihood of the moves not being bad is really small.

The people that make the drafting decisions are alright at their jobs, so having them do what they do and having Adams and Terry not do anything destructive might just be the best we can hope for until Terry removes himself from the equation and a real hockey person who is good at his job is installed in the position of president of hockey operations, at which time they will likely replace or relocate Adams.

Again, I already said that I don't believe that Terry influences absolutely every decision, be it a waiver or some small trade. There is no evidence of this, Adams says that there are no restrictions and he has the cards in his hands. Of course, Adams constantly tells Terry about his actions, but this does not mean that he asks Terry if he can take a player from a waiver, for example. Pegula is not the only owner in the NHL who is interested in the work of his GM. He can be greedy in some moments and not in others, like signing Power for 8 million or Cozens for 7 million. Giving Zucker 5 million after a controversial season. I don't believe Terry told Adams not to trade Jokiharju and not to add Marino/Jensen/Kovacevic/Fabbro in his place.

 

[Irie]

Again, I already said that I don't believe that Terry influences absolutely every decision, be it a waiver or some small trade. There is no evidence of this, Adams says that there are no restrictions and he has the cards in his hands. Of course, Adams constantly tells Terry about his actions, but this does not mean that he asks Terry if he can take a player from a waiver, for example. Pegula is not the only owner in the NHL who is interested in the work of his GM. He can be greedy in some moments and not in others, like signing Power for 8 million or Cozens for 7 million. Giving Zucker 5 million after a controversial season. I don't believe Terry told Adams not to trade Jokiharju and not to add Marino/Jensen/Kovacevic/Fabbro in his place.

You are free to believe whatever you want to, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on in the argument that the sabres don't have the least qualified president of hockey operations in the league.

I also think you are going to have a hell of a time arguing that Adams primary role with the Sabres hasn't been to insulate Terry from criticism while keeping costs down. If Adams was acting alone and not working with Terry on all the decisions the past five years, do you honestly believe his job would be safe? That he'd actively be trying to cut costs at the expensive of the on ice product he was presenting to the fans? Or that he'd even still have a job? I don't. Stop listening to his words and just start looking at his actions, the two are very contradictory and are quite telling if you take a small amount of time to analyze them.

 

[Fjordsen]

You are free to believe whatever you want to, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on in the argument that the sabres don't have the least qualified president of hockey operations in the league.

I also think you are going to have a hell of a time arguing that Adams primary role with the Sabres hasn't been to insulate Terry from criticism while keeping costs down. If Adams was acting alone and not working with Terry on all the decisions the past five years, do you honestly believe his job would be safe? That he'd actively be trying to cut costs at the expensive of the on ice product he was presenting to the fans? Or that he'd even still have a job? I don't. Stop listening to his words and just start looking at his actions, the two are very contradictory and are quite telling if you take a small amount of time to analyze them.

There is no argument that Adams coordinates every move with Terry. Talking about it and asking for permission are not the same thing.

But wait, Terry does not fire his GMs for bad results, then when Adams took over he decided to rebuild or they decided together, even if Terry cut costs, we are not the lowest team in terms of salary at the moment, Adams gave out big contracts like hotcakes to some of his players, Adams wanted to add Necas or Ehlers, which would have made us close to the cap. I do not deny that Terry influences some decisions, but I do not believe that he influences all decisions. I think Adams just does not understand how to build a team correctly.

 

[Jim Bob]

Correct. Adams can't make all of the moves necessary to build a contender at this TDL.

BUT... he could make the first substantial move, in a series of substantial moves between this years TDL and the start of next season that lead to the playoffs next season.

We all know he won't, but it's theoretically possible. Every big window of trade activity seems to come and go with nothing of substance from Adams.

I don’t think it’s that possible. Teams rarely move quality core players at the TDL.

You can point to the Mitts-Byram deal. But, those types of hockey trades are rare in the NHL today, and especially at the TDL.

And with the cap jumping up, I think the options out there to make substantial moves to improve the roster are going to get harder and harder.

 

[TehDoak]

There is no argument that Adams coordinates every move with Terry. Talking about it and asking for permission are not the same thing.

But wait, Terry does not fire his GMs for bad results, then when Adams took over he decided to rebuild or they decided together, even if Terry cut costs, we are not the lowest team in terms of salary at the moment, Adams gave out big contracts like hotcakes to some of his players, Adams wanted to add Necas or Ehlers, which would have made us close to the cap. I do not deny that Terry influences some decisions, but I do not believe that he influences all decisions. I think Adams just does not understand how to build a team correctly.

I mean, if we added Ehlers or Necas, we weren't signing Zucker. So we'd probably still be a under the cap, though we'd likely be closer.

Overall, its impossible to tell where the Pegula influence stops and starts. We do know that Terry has been less present over the last few years due to the issues with Kim and the Bills taking a bigger front seat, especially in the fall.

In the end though, The Pegulas hired Adams because he'd do what they say, not because he was a qualified candidate ready to take the reigns.

 

[Jim Bob]

I mean, if we added Ehlers or Necas, we weren't signing Zucker. So we'd probably still be a under the cap, though we'd likely be closer.

Overall, its impossible to tell where the Pegula influence stops and starts. We do know that Terry has been less present over the last few years due to the issues with Kim and the Bills taking a bigger front seat, especially in the fall.

In the end though, The Pegulas hired Adams because he'd do what they say, not because he was a qualified candidate ready to take the reigns.

Do we know that, though?

Adams has talked about talking to Terry daily and there are reports that Terry has wanted to stay off of TV broadcasts and has snuck into the building to watch games while also staying off of broadcasts.

 

[Fjordsen]

I mean, if we added Ehlers or Necas, we weren't signing Zucker. So we'd probably still be a under the cap, though we'd likely be closer.

Overall, its impossible to tell where the Pegula influence stops and starts. We do know that Terry has been less present over the last few years due to the issues with Kim and the Bills taking a bigger front seat, especially in the fall.

In the end though, The Pegulas hired Adams because he'd do what they say, not because he was a qualified candidate ready to take the reigns.

And they also wanted to add Pesce, which also came out to 6-7 million. I think Terry can spend money, but depending on the situation.

 

[Archie Lee]

I mean, if we added Ehlers or Necas, we weren't signing Zucker. So we'd probably still be a under the cap, though we'd likely be closer.

Overall, its impossible to tell where the Pegula influence stops and starts. We do know that Terry has been less present over the last few years due to the issues with Kim and the Bills taking a bigger front seat, especially in the fall.

In the end though, The Pegulas hired Adams because he'd do what they say, not because he was a qualified candidate ready to take the reigns.

First, it's important to acknowledge that what we are doing amounts to educated speculation. Second, and to the bolded, a possible distinction is that they hired Adams and have kept him not because he will do what they say but rather because they know he won't try to do anything that they would not approve of. So, it isn't that he is explicitly following orders so much as they trust him to manage the team the way they want it managed. Perhaps that's a meaningless distinction to some people, but if one thinks of it this way it sort of removes the barrier between those who are convinced Pegula is micromanaging hockey decisions and those who think he stays out of the way. I think it is as simple as Adams knows where the lines are.

 

[Archie Lee]

And they also wanted to add Pesce, which also came out to 6-7 million. I think Terry can spend money, but depending on the situation.

An important thing to remember though, with all of these players we were rumored to be in on, is that we don't know what the corresponding move would be. I think Zucker was the quick pivot when it became clear we were not likely to complete a trade for Ehlers or Necas. I could be wrong though. Had we been able to acquire Pesce, it doesn't necessarily mean he would have been an addition with no corresponding financial subtraction.

In the end, none of this lets Adams off the hook. While I do think we have an internal cap and will believe so until we spend more, it isn't like we are only spending to the floor. We are one middle-six veteran (an Alex Iaffallo or a Nino Niedeirriter) away from being in the same cap area as the NHL's 1st place team, who happen to be in a less desirable geographical location and tax situation than Buffalo. We are not, however, one middle-six veteran from being a playoff contender, let alone in competition for the President's trophy. It isn't just that we are not quite spending enough, it is also the case, perhaps more so, that we are not spending wisely. If we bridge a couple of kids instead of giving long-term extensions, we have maybe $3-4 million to spend elsewhere. Also, we continue to overpay players who end up being marginal contributors or candidates to be benched or waived (Olofsson, Jokiharju, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel).

I will say this again: It is not possible for a GM to misunderstand a roster more than Adams misunderstood this one. He believed this was a playoff calibre roster (I simply reject any notion that he was flat out lying about this). We are the worst team in the Eastern Conference. General Managers in major professional sports simply do not keep their jobs in these situations. If Adams comes out of this season as GM, it is overwhelming conclusive evidence, that the Sabres are the worst managed team in the NHL and that it starts with ownership.

 

[Chainshot]

I don’t think it’s that possible. Teams rarely move quality core players at the TDL.

You can point to the Mitts-Byram deal. But, those types of hockey trades are rare in the NHL today, and especially at the TDL.

And with the cap jumping up, I think the options out there to make substantial moves to improve the roster are going to get harder and harder.

Which is why waiting - and we are on GM #2 - is a not a plan or good idea.

 

[Fjordsen]

An important thing to remember though, with all of these players we were rumored to be in on, is that we don't know what the corresponding move would be. I think Zucker was the quick pivot when it became clear we were not likely to complete a trade for Ehlers or Necas. I could be wrong though. Had we been able to acquire Pesce, it doesn't necessarily mean he would have been an addition with no corresponding financial subtraction.

In the end, none of this lets Adams off the hook. While I do think we have an internal cap and will believe so until we spend more, it isn't like we are only spending to the floor. We are one middle-six veteran (an Alex Iaffallo or a Nino Niedeirriter) away from being in the same cap area as the NHL's 1st place team, who happen to be in a less desirable geographical location and tax situation than Buffalo. We are not, however, one middle-six veteran from being a playoff contender, let alone in competition for the President's trophy. It isn't just that we are not quite spending enough, it is also the case, perhaps more so, that we are not spending wisely. If we bridge a couple of kids instead of giving long-term extensions, we have maybe $3-4 million to spend elsewhere. Also, we continue to overpay players who end up being marginal contributors or candidates to be benched or waived (Olofsson, Jokiharju, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel).

I will say this again: It is not possible for a GM to misunderstand a roster more than Adams misunderstood this one. He believed this was a playoff calibre roster (I simply reject any notion that he was flat out lying about this). We are the worst team in the Eastern Conference. General Managers in major professional sports simply do not keep their jobs in these situations. If Adams comes out of this season as GM, it is overwhelming conclusive evidence, that the Sabres are the worst managed team in the NHL and that it starts with ownership.

There may be an internal limit, but even in this case, you can get to the playoffs, look how much Calgary and Columbus spend, much less than us and where they are and where we are. But I think Adams just loves his young players too much and gives them spots in the lineup, and right away in the top 6. That's why I think Adams has absolutely no understanding of how to properly build a lineup and why he has hardly added vets to the top 4 and top 9 all these years.

 

[MOGlLNY]

God damnit this sucks reading the same 10 posts over and over again after the 4 nations

 

[SundherDome]

God damnit this sucks reading the same 10 posts over and over again after the 4 nations

It's gotten really toxic in here this year

 

[TehDoak]

Do we know that, though?

Adams has talked about talking to Terry daily and there are reports that Terry has wanted to stay off of TV broadcasts and has snuck into the building to watch games while also staying off of broadcasts.

I mean...I would think the past few years have been pretty Terry lite, especially while his wife was doing worse than she is now. Maybe its ramped up more recently.

Either way, it pales in comparison to his involvement when he first bought the team.

I'd say he's probably still one of the more involved owners in the league.

 

[Chainshot]

Wouldn't hurt..

And to absolutely no surprise, he cleared.