Rankings of European leagues 2020-2021 season

[Elias40]

Switzerland very easily.

Of course, the first place is Switzerland. I was more interested in who is in second place and so on. Let's go from the first to the tenth place, let it be more interesting.

 

[Albatros]

After that it gets harder to say because of internal differences between hockey towns in many countries, especially larger ones. Munich or Bremerhaven? Helsinki or Kouvola? In many cases there are structurally strong as well as weak regions represented within the leagues, and the clubs often reflect that too.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Of course, the first place is Switzerland. I was more interested in who is in second place and so on. Let's go from the first to the tenth place, let it be more interesting.

It all depends what's the prioritized criteria. How does living in Nizhnekamsk and being paid a lot compare to living in Karlovy Vary and being paid a reasonable amount? Most things have different value to different people.

 

[fredrikstad]

They are close. See, Namejs placed gaps and no gaps between the leagues he considered to be close and not close. And once again, he probably does NLA way bigger disservice by sticking with Liiga and Extraliga but the level there is reasonably close. The argument is that the local league pays enough for the players for them to not be worth moving until contracts from truly big leagues (mostly KHL) come in. That's why there are almost no Czechs (there are a couple of dual-nationals) in the DEL despite those two being neighboring countries. You don't see that league just leaking talent left and right. This is a similar situation to the one Finland is currently in (it also has become an old men league now).


I understand. Point was that you are familiar with the concept of better-paying league not necessarily being decisively better.


So have the EIHL ones, Nottingham even managed to finish 1st in the group in 17/18.

A big problem for SHL and Liiga is the NHL expansions. Now they have 64 NHL and AHL teams, draining their leagues. And of course KHL doesn't help those former great leagues either.

 

[Elias40]

After that it gets harder to say because of internal differences between hockey towns in many countries, especially larger ones. Munich or Bremerhaven? Helsinki or Kouvola? In many cases there are structurally strong as well as weak regions represented within the leagues, and the clubs often reflect that too.

So try to compare it according to this key:
A, the quality of life in a particular country
B, finance
C, interest in hockey in the country

A - NL, SHL, DEL, Liiga, Extraliga, KHL,
B - KHL, NL, SHL, DEL, Extraliga, Liiga
C - NL, KHL, DEL, Extraliga, SHL, Liiga

Do you agree with me?

 

[vorky]

I would like to ask which European leagues have IT system similar to the NHL Central Registry where all transfers, players´ salaries, internal communication between league & clubs, communication with media etc can be found. Looks like the Czech & Slovak leagues do not have such a system. As I know, the KHL has it - called the KHL Central Information Bureau.

 

[vorky]

So try to compare it according to this key:
A, the quality of life in a particular country
B, finance
C, interest in hockey in the country

A - NL, SHL, DEL, Liiga, Extraliga, KHL,
B - KHL, NL, SHL, DEL, Extraliga, Liiga
C - NL, KHL, DEL, Extraliga, SHL, Liiga

Do you agree with me?

I do not understand why standard of living (quality of life) , let us say, in Litvínov is better than Moscow, St.Petersburg , Helsinki or Kazan. Just an example, I could go on.

 

[Elias40]

I do not understand why standard of living (quality of life) , let us say, in Litvínov is better than Moscow, St.Petersburg , Helsinki or Kazan. Just an example, I could go on.

Do you know that I can turn it around and write that life in Prague is far better than in Nizhnekamsk or Khabarovsk? Imagine a situation where you get the same money for playing hockey in every club, no matter if you play in IFK, Bern, Lulea, Magnitogorsk or Pilsen. Do you really think that players would go to Russia in large numbers?

 

[JabbaJabba]

So try to compare it according to this key:
A, the quality of life in a particular country
B, finance
C, interest in hockey in the country

A - NL, SHL, DEL, Liiga, Extraliga, KHL,
B - KHL, NL, SHL, DEL, Extraliga, Liiga
C - NL, KHL, DEL, Extraliga, SHL, Liiga

Do you agree with me?

Wait what? Liiga is last in interest in hockey? How?

 

[Elias40]

Wait what? Liiga is last in interest in hockey? How?

My personal impression, I feel that there are not so many fans, but it can't be compared so well because of the population. It is a purely subjective thing, no generally true truth. I am glad if more people comment on this topic.

 

[Exarz]

Do you know that I can turn it around and write that life in Prague is far better than in Nizhnekamsk or Khabarovsk? Imagine a situation where you get the same money for playing hockey in every club, no matter if you play in IFK, Bern, Lulea, Magnitogorsk or Pilsen. Do you really think that players would go to Russia in large numbers?

Hence why it’s a rather weak comparing factor, just as Albatros mentioned too. You have to factor in cultural differences, languages barriers etc together with internal differences. How many from Luleå, Helsinki or Khabarovsk wish to leave their hometown to move their entire family to a new city, playing for the exact same money? Would you even see players moving abroad to live in a “better city/country” if the salary was the same?

 

[BlizzardSloth]

So try to compare it according to this key:
A, the quality of life in a particular country
B, finance
C, interest in hockey in the country

A - NL, SHL, DEL, Liiga, Extraliga, KHL,
B - KHL, NL, SHL, DEL, Extraliga, Liiga
C - NL, KHL, DEL, Extraliga, SHL, Liiga

Do you agree with me?

I agree with a lot here. But Liiga at the last place for "interest in hockey in the country" seems very strange to me. I've never seen hockey as omnipresent in the rest of Europe as in Finland. Maybe the spectators numbers don't support that for several reasons (small towns, sparsely populated country, long travel distances to arenas, etc.), but I think Finland should be higher here.

 

[vorky]

Do you know that I can turn it around and write that life in Prague is far better than in Nizhnekamsk or Khabarovsk? Imagine a situation where you get the same money for playing hockey in every club, no matter if you play in IFK, Bern, Lulea, Magnitogorsk or Pilsen. Do you really think that players would go to Russia in large numbers?

The point is that you do not get the same money. But fine. I would say that the following teams/cities are on the same level (if not higher) than cities you named, so Helsinki, St.Petersburg, Sochi, Moscow, Riga, even Minsk & Ekateriburg, Kazan, Ufa, even Omsk & Novosibirsk. No way the KHL is on the last place in that criterion as you wrote.

 

[JabbaJabba]

My personal impression, I feel that there are not so many fans, but it can't be compared so well because of the population. It is a purely subjective thing, no generally true truth. I am glad if more people comment on this topic.

Well Finland is one of the few countries where hockey is the number 1 sport and Liiga is the most popular league in Finland. So I don't think it should be last in category C.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I do not understand why standard of living (quality of life) , let us say, in Litvínov is better than Moscow, St.Petersburg , Helsinki or Kazan. Just an example, I could go on.

As someone who has lived in both Moscow and the Czech Republic I think I'm well-qualified to answer: in Litvinov you are still in the middle of Europe. You can spend Christmas in Munich, go to a concert in Berlin, whatever. They are a few hours away. In Russia, you are there and that's that. So if you enjoy being there it's ok but if not, you are kinda stuck.

 

[VictorLustig]

A big problem for SHL and Liiga is the NHL expansions. Now they have 64 NHL and AHL teams, draining their leagues. And of course KHL doesn't help those former great leagues either.

’The NHL has expanded by a couple of teams but the AHL itself won’t drain anything from Liiga or the SHL.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

A big problem for SHL and Liiga is the NHL expansions. Now they have 64 NHL and AHL teams, draining their leagues. And of course KHL doesn't help those former great leagues either.

The AHL is not usually that big of a factor in the SHL really, I don’t think, unless players themselves want to go there to make a push for an NHL spot (for “overaged prospects” with NHL dreams this is sometimes the case, such as Fredrik Händemark to start this season), or unless the players aren’t deemed to get enough quality ice time in the SHL (Victor Berglund might be a good example: he’s a very flawed talent whose offensive upside couldn’t cover for the black hole he was defensively at the SHL level, where ultimately he was entirely used as a powerplay specialist; now he’s bouncing between the AHL and ECHL where I’m guessing that they can afford him the ice time needed to work on his game).

There are exceptions but players are usually pulled when deemed close to NHL ready, in my experience, and the SHL is appreciated for its ability to develop talent. For Luleå, the one exception I can think of was Lucas Wallmark, who had been the #1 centre for Luleå the season before his call-up to the Checkers. However, he probably was considered at the margins of making the Hurricanes at that point, so it’s likely they wanted him ready to go for the season, despite only getting 8 games in with the NHL team throughout the year.

Jesper Sellgren was also a guy I think Luleå would have held onto if not the Hurricanes had asked for his services in the AHL, first and foremost, but he was also probably considered at the fringe of making the NHL roster.

But my main point is: I don’t think the AHL factors in that much into the SHL talent drain. The vast majority of SHL players lost to the AHL are there because they’re considered close to making an NHL roster, to try out their luck, or because they aren’t getting enough developmental ice time in the SHL. In any case, these players are usually not the best SHLers, and/or gone only briefly. Occasionally there are guys who’d make strong additions to an SHL team lost floundering at the fringe of the NHL for years, such as Mattias Tedenby, but I don’t know how big of a factor these guys are.

The NHL, KHL and NL are much bigger culprits in the talent drain.

 

[fredrikstad]

The AHL is not usually that big of a factor in the SHL really, I don’t think, unless players themselves want to go there to make a push for an NHL spot (for “overaged prospects” with NHL dreams this is sometimes the case, such as Fredrik Händemark to start this season), or unless the players aren’t deemed to get enough quality ice time in the SHL (Victor Berglund might be a good example: he’s a very flawed talent whose offensive upside couldn’t cover for the black hole he was defensively at the SHL level, where ultimately he was entirely used as a powerplay specialist; now he’s bouncing between the AHL and ECHL where I’m guessing that they can afford him the ice time needed to work on his game).

There are exceptions but players are usually pulled when deemed close to NHL ready, in my experience, and the SHL is appreciated for its ability to develop talent. For Luleå, the one exception I can think of was Lucas Wallmark, who had been the #1 centre for Luleå the season before his call-up to the Checkers. However, he probably was considered at the margins of making the Hurricanes at that point, so it’s likely they wanted him ready to go for the season, despite only getting 8 games in with the NHL team throughout the year.

Jesper Sellgren was also a guy I think Luleå would have held onto if not the Hurricanes had asked for his services in the AHL, first and foremost, but he was also probably considered at the fringe of making the NHL roster.

But my main point is: I don’t think the AHL factors in that much into the SHL talent drain. The vast majority of SHL players lost to the AHL are there because they’re considered close to making an NHL roster, to try out their luck, or because they aren’t getting enough developmental ice time in the SHL. In any case, these players are usually not the best SHLers, and/or gone only briefly. Occasionally there are guys who’d make strong additions to an SHL team lost floundering at the fringe of the NHL for years, such as Mattias Tedenby, but I don’t know how big of a factor these guys are.

The NHL, KHL and NL are much bigger culprits in the talent drain.

Thank you for a great explanation. I just that there was 35 Swedish players currently in the AHL, and 89 or so, in the NHL. That's a couple of great SHL teams gone.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Thank you for a great explanation. I just that there was 35 Swedish players currently in the AHL, and 89 or so, in the NHL. That's a couple of great SHL teams gone.

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2021-2022

61 swedes in AHL


and 49 swedes in ncaa, often forgotten
Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats 2021-2022

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats 2021-2022

61 swedes in AHL

Maybe half of them, as he said, are in the AHL at any moment. At least Åberg, Timashov and Norlinder are in the SHL now.

And virtually half those current NHLers were with Skellefteå last season, so we can know for certain that soon enough they’ll give up on their dreams and return home since that’s how Skellefteå built their success: develop lots and lots of NHL busts, the best non-NHLers in the world, and have a competitive SHL team.

 

[vorky]

Maybe half of them, as he said, are in the AHL at any moment. At least Åberg, Timashov and Norlinder are in the SHL now.

And virtually half those current NHLers were with Skellefteå last season, so we can know for certain that soon enough they’ll give up on their dreams and return home since that’s how Skellefteå built their success: develop lots and lots of NHL busts, the best non-NHLers in the world, and have a competitive SHL team.

unless they choose the NL or KHL instead ...