GDT: Rangers 2019 Training Camp Thread

[Clown Fiesta]

DQ did a solid job last year imo and has a helluva lot more to work with this year. Should be golden.

 

[haveandare]

Which is totally possible and non often discussed here. He may have been upset with how last season played out, how these negotiations have played out, and want to move on.

Not saying that he can't move on and get a foothold somewhere else, but another move would put him in his 4th organization since 2015-16. Not sure what the number is, and it's probably different for every player or organization, but at some point being constantly moved like that becomes a serious issue.

 

[offdacrossbar]

ADA is from jersey. hes a phily fan. his family is here. hes an east coast guy playing basically at home.

he wants to stay and play here.

his team is trying to get him the best deal they can until they can get both $$ and term.

its just business.

get him signed.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

You’re really obsessed with that, aren’t you?

Yes because it’s idiotic and one of the dumbest things I’ve read on here.

 

[haveandare]

The lindgren love is about as warranted as the Freddy Claesson love I saw here last season. Dime a dozen players. Skjei Hajek Rykov Miller Reunanen Robertson all light years better than Lindgren

Teams need third pairing players. Using guys who should be playing way up in that position is a waste. I don't love Lindgren, but if we have 4 other clear cut top 4 guys and he proves to be an effective bottom pairing player, the smart move is to play him there and move the other guys for value.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Its amazing, the organizations JD bossed over managed to win what one round in the POs over the 13 years he bossed over them!

Seriously though, I have a problem with JD. The reason for it is that we have seen some madness in NY. The level of management we have experienced has in many instances been worse than what a fan-base should have to endure, post 94'. In principle -- all -- those disastrous performances by GMs to coaches have been a result of people living in the past, not adopting to the development of the game. Remember that the game of hockey and the NHL have developed tremendously fast from say 1979 to 2019.

The by far biggest mistake made around this franchise was that it didn't adopt to the trapping era. All teams in this league eventually adjusted but we didn't. You also had the Smith/Slats madness chasing names instead of building teams and what not. Everyone know that JD was a dreamer that wouldn't question any crazy ambition or approach from management. Then someone will lol and ask what was JD supposed to do etc etc etc. And he was of course not behind anything, didn't cause anything, but we all know that he didn't believe that he was watching by far the worst run organization in pro-sports -- which he was.

Then he goes on to STL and get zero results and accomplish nothing and then its CBJ and its just more of the same. He is on record being on board with bringing in John Tortorella, who is another one who was great but got caught in what worked yesterday and who sets back that organization years at the time focusing on the wrong things.

I cannot say that I know JD will do a bad job in NY. He could end up doing a great job. But I am not convinced that he won't do a horrible job. And I would have liked it a lot more if we would have brought in someone who had displayed that he understood the developing nature of the game in a way Glen Sather for example did not. JMHO.

Not sure that's an entirely fair take. If the measure of success is playoff rounds won, Torterella's tenure with the Rangers is almost absurdly good. The first years 2008-2010, the fact that we even made the playoffs when an aged Vinny Prospal, Naslund, Gomez, and Drury were our primary offense -- followed by a Gaborik who missed as many games as he played, B.Richards on his way out, and Dubinsky and Callahan... Our 2011-12 season was spectacular, in no small part because of what Torts was able to squeeze out of a crappy lineup.

But if success is also about adopting to the game as it changes, then the blind-sided release of Torts after 2013, and the AV team that followed the next two years and not only adapted to but changed the way that teams would be built and how they would play because of their speed through the neutral zone and near even distribution of ice time at 5v5, then the Rangers have done a good job in that category too.

The release of 'the Letter' announcing a full on rebuild was likewise unique and unprecedented in the sport. And the speed with which we have since turned over our roster and filled the organization from bottom to top with talent is something that has never really happened before, for the Rangers or otherwise. Teams like Boston, San Jose, and the Penguins have taken steps back to take leaps forward, but none went from the middle to the bottom and none recouped the way we have. Meanwhile, other rebuilds typically stay in the basement with little reason for optimism for years.

JD may not have built Stanley Cup winners, but he took two forgettable franchises and built the foundation for respect and sustained success. In St. Louis, plenty of his pieces just won the cup: Pietrangelo, Steen, Perron, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Edmundson, Binnington, Parayko (all draft picks, prospects, or acquisitions in JD's tenure); others have had success in the teams they were moved to: Oshie, Cole, Bishop, Reaves, Eller have all played big roles in Stanley Cup Finals at least.

In Columbus, the franchise went from a franchise with 1 playoff appearance and 0 games won in their entire existance to a team now, when he's left, that can lose it's two best players in Free Agency, and two of the top players in the world at their positions, and still be considered a playoff contender because of their depth in the NHL and down through the org. He hires the first European GM. Torts for your insistance that he won't change, has clearly changed a lot, stressing all thourought his return to the NHL that he has to adapt, he has to be a different kind of manager in the room, he has to let his best players play unrestrainedly. Remember when Grabner scored that goal a couple years ago, shorthanded on a breakaway with very little time left? Seth Jones had made a risky play at the blueline in a tie game, Grabner intercepts, breaksaway and scores, and Torts in the post game says of Jones and the play: he has to be allowed to take that chance, 9 times out of 10 Jones pulls it off, and he won't criticize the attempt because he has to trust his best players.

That's a very different Torts than New York or Vancouver got, no?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The lindgren love is about as warranted as the Freddy Claesson love I saw here last season. Dime a dozen players. Skjei Hajek Rykov Miller Reunanen Robertson all light years better than Lindgren

I fail to see how a physical, gritty defenseman — something this team has lacked for decades — is dime a dozen.

 

[RGY]

The lindgren love is about as warranted as the Freddy Claesson love I saw here last season. Dime a dozen players. Skjei Hajek Rykov Miller Reunanen Robertson all light years better than Lindgren

He is 21 years old. Having his name and Claesson’s in the same breath is asinine. Completely asinine. 21 years old, but you have determined what his career will be already. This opinion is just as bad as whatever “love” you claim there is for Lindgren around here.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I fail to see how a physical, gritty defenseman — something this team has lacked for decades — is dime a dozen.

We’ve head plenty of them, most recently Smith, problem is they are normally bottom pair dmen, like Lindgren. I’m not a hater of him by any means, but i think depth will get in his way to make the team. In this day and age puck moving dmen are key to making the nhl unless you can really bring something else to the table.

 

[RGY]

I fail to see how a physical, gritty defenseman — something this team has lacked for decades — is dime a dozen.

Guys who can play defense, play physical, clear the front of the net, and make life hard for opposing forwards. Yep we have had so many of those over the years....

 

[romba]

Its amazing, the organizations JD bossed over managed to win what one round in the POs over the 13 years he bossed over them!

Seriously though, I have a problem with JD. The reason for it is that we have seen some madness in NY. The level of management we have experienced has in many instances been worse than what a fan-base should have to endure, post 94'. In principle -- all -- those disastrous performances by GMs to coaches have been a result of people living in the past, not adopting to the development of the game. Remember that the game of hockey and the NHL have developed tremendously fast from say 1979 to 2019.

The by far biggest mistake made around this franchise was that it didn't adopt to the trapping era. All teams in this league eventually adjusted but we didn't. You also had the Smith/Slats madness chasing names instead of building teams and what not. Everyone know that JD was a dreamer that wouldn't question any crazy ambition or approach from management. Then someone will lol and ask what was JD supposed to do etc etc etc. And he was of course not behind anything, didn't cause anything, but we all know that he didn't believe that he was watching by far the worst run organization in pro-sports -- which he was.

Then he goes on to STL and get zero results and accomplish nothing and then its CBJ and its just more of the same. He is on record being on board with bringing in John Tortorella, who is another one who was great but got caught in what worked yesterday and who sets back that organization years at the time focusing on the wrong things.

I cannot say that I know JD will do a bad job in NY. He could end up doing a great job. But I am not convinced that he won't do a horrible job. And I would have liked it a lot more if we would have brought in someone who had displayed that he understood the developing nature of the game in a way Glen Sather for example did not. JMHO.

Wait, you’re saying JD is complicit in the late 90’s early 2000’s prelockout debacle, because he was a fan and gung-ho on the broadcast at the time and didn’t call the team out (that was paying him) as an all-time bad unadapting team?You’re reaching here.

 

[will1066]

He is 21 years old. Having his name and Claesson’s in the same breath is asinine. Completely asinine. 21 years old, but you have determined what his career will be already. This opinion is just as bad as whatever “love” you claim there is for Lindgren around here.

To be fair, I don't think he compared Lindgren to Claesson but rather the respective "love" for each of them here. Just calling it the way I see it.

OTOH, you don't trade Richard Nash for a dime-a-dozen player.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

We’ve head plenty of them, most recently Smith, problem is they are normally bottom pair dmen, like Lindgren. I’m not a hater of him by any means, but i think depth will get in his way to make the team. In this day and age puck moving dmen are key to making the nhl unless you can really bring something else to the table.

The problem is, they're either old and ineffective or they don't really play that way — like Smith. That he will drop the gloves is not the same as what I Lindgren being able to bring. Smith is the latest example of trying to acquire the kind of player I'm talking bout.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Its amazing, the organizations JD bossed over managed to win what one round in the POs over the 13 years he bossed over them!

Seriously though, I have a problem with JD. The reason for it is that we have seen some madness in NY. The level of management we have experienced has in many instances been worse than what a fan-base should have to endure, post 94'. In principle -- all -- those disastrous performances by GMs to coaches have been a result of people living in the past, not adopting to the development of the game. Remember that the game of hockey and the NHL have developed tremendously fast from say 1979 to 2019.

The by far biggest mistake made around this franchise was that it didn't adopt to the trapping era. All teams in this league eventually adjusted but we didn't. You also had the Smith/Slats madness chasing names instead of building teams and what not. Everyone know that JD was a dreamer that wouldn't question any crazy ambition or approach from management. Then someone will lol and ask what was JD supposed to do etc etc etc. And he was of course not behind anything, didn't cause anything, but we all know that he didn't believe that he was watching by far the worst run organization in pro-sports -- which he was.

Then he goes on to STL and get zero results and accomplish nothing and then its CBJ and its just more of the same. He is on record being on board with bringing in John Tortorella, who is another one who was great but got caught in what worked yesterday and who sets back that organization years at the time focusing on the wrong things.

I cannot say that I know JD will do a bad job in NY. He could end up doing a great job. But I am not convinced that he won't do a horrible job. And I would have liked it a lot more if we would have brought in someone who had displayed that he understood the developing nature of the game in a way Glen Sather for example did not. JMHO.

I've figured it out!

JD bears a strong facial resemblance to that shotputter, doesn't he? THAT'S why you're so determined to hate him.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Wait, you’re saying JD is complicit in the late 90’s early 2000’s prelockout debacle, because he was a fan and gung-ho on the broadcast at the time and didn’t call the team out (that was paying him) as an all-time bad unadapting team?You’re reaching here.

And where was JD on 22 November 1963?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Are they on the ice?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The problem is, they're either old and ineffective or they don't really play that way — like Smith. That he will drop the gloves is not the same as what I Lindgren being able to bring. Smith is the latest example of trying to acquire the kind of player I'm talking bout.

Have we all forgotten Kevin Klein already??

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Have we all forgotten Kevin Klein already??

I haven’t. But I never felt that Klein ever displayed the snarl and mean streak here that he was purported to have when the Rangers acquired him.

 

[egelband]

Teams need third pairing players. Using guys who should be playing way up in that position is a waste. I don't love Lindgren, but if we have 4 other clear cut top 4 guys and he proves to be an effective bottom pairing player, the smart move is to play him there and move the other guys for value.

I know there probably isn't room but I'd love to see Lindgren get a long look. Same with Lettieri in a top six role. These guys may not be world beaters but I think they do certain things very well. Lettieri has a terrific shot and is pretty well-rounded otherwise. Lindgren looks unpleasant to play against. Good role players. Boo as well. It's a numbers game and I don't expect them to get that shot. But I hope they do.

 

[romba]

We’ve head plenty of them, most recently Smith, problem is they are normally bottom pair dmen, like Lindgren. I’m not a hater of him by any means, but i think depth will get in his way to make the team. In this day and age puck moving dmen are key to making the nhl unless you can really bring something else to the table.

Nah, we haven't had plenty of them. A little serviceable snarl on the bottom pair/line can bolster morale a bit and can be very effective later in the season and down the road in the playoffs. Key word is serviceable. Can they move the puck adequately to get out of the D zone? Skate decently? They don't need the vision, shot, or offensive skills as a puck mover would if they provide a different element while not being a detriment to the team. Smith, as mentioned, occasionally fights but he's not gonna clear the crease or start something too often after the play to send a message to our own guys that we're not gonna stand for crap in our own crease.

 

[egelband]

I haven’t. But I never felt that Klein ever displayed the snarl and mean streak here that he was purported to have when the Rangers acquired him.

Yeah. Everyone said he was kind of a closet badass. But that never really materialized on ice. On the other hand I was never disappointed by him. So maybe it's just that opponents kept their powder dry when Klein was about. But I never felt that. Good solid Ranger though.

 

[romba]

I haven’t. But I never felt that Klein ever displayed the snarl and mean streak here that he was purported to have when the Rangers acquired him.

Exactly. Dmen who drop the gloves seem to be associated with 'old school crease clearers' as they're both a dying breed but they are not the same. Klein was physical, as is Smith when he wants to be, but they don't have the snarl. Take Lemieux, diminish his Offensive skills, add some size and Defensive skills and voila, THAT'S what we're looking for. No gripping and looking past the guy when the whistle blows and he ended up in the crease accidentally bumping the goalie. 'No accidents- GTFO my crease or else.'

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

JD made comments about lias maturing physically and there was a video a few weeks ago with chytil that showed his face has completely changed and he's not a little kid anymore...super excited to see these 2 this year floating under the radar a bit with all the other changes

This video?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We’ve head plenty of them, most recently Smith, problem is they are normally bottom pair dmen, like Lindgren. I’m not a hater of him by any means, but i think depth will get in his way to make the team. In this day and age puck moving dmen are key to making the nhl unless you can really bring something else to the table.

Look at the impact Sauer had in just about a season and a half here. He was the last truly physical player we had on our blueline who can play an effective two way game, imo. I think Lindgren can provide a similar element which we've been lacking.

Lindgren has a great IQ and is relentless on the boards. With dmen like ADA, Fox, and eventually Lundkvist on the right side, he would provide that balance with his physicality and defensive reliability on the left.

He's one of our most overlooked prospects because he isn't flashy and doesn't have the offensive upside as some of our other prospects, but the value he can provide here could be significant.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Are they on the ice?