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GDT: Rangers 2019 Training Camp Thread: Part II

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Ola said:
Seriously though, on Marc Staal, I don’t get the notion that we must trash him just to trash him. He is a lot more OK in a zone defense than in a man-man defense. For someone his age, he moves pretty well for a 6’4.

He is of course not playing up to his pay check, but that is nothing new.

I actually think Staal has even been a tad better than I expected this pre-season.
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He's OK in in-zone coverage situations, but his shortcomings elsewhere really hurt. There was one play last night close to the end of the game when the Rangers had some offensive zone pressure and were moving the puck and Fox passes it to him and it takes 3 or 4 seconds for him to gather the puck control it and lob a muffin into the goalie. Another play earlier in the game on a transition up ice where Fox makes a nice play to escape pressure and throws a pass to Staal who just whiffs on it and it goes back the other way for a decent chance as everyone is caught up ice except Fox. It's things like that that just kill the team every time he's out there.
 
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With Chytil seemingly not grabbing his golden opportuniy, at least so far, the depth takes a huge hit. Here's hoping he figures it out, and quickly.
 
I think people are getting too caught up in training camp lines and lineups. I'm sure Quinn is testing the young guys, seeing how the react to being placed on different lines and in different. Kravtsov scores a goal last night and now there are whispers he may start in Hartford. I have a hard time believing that's a coincidence. I don't care what lines Howden, Lias, Chytil or Kravtsov are playing on. I just want to see the right players make the team out of camp. The rest will figure itself out during the course of the season.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
He's OK in in-zone coverage situations, but his shortcomings elsewhere really hurt. There was one play last night close to the end of the game when the Rangers had some offensive zone pressure and were moving the puck and Fox passes it to him and it takes 3 or 4 seconds for him to gather the puck control it and lob a muffin into the goalie. Another play earlier in the game on a transition up ice where Fox makes a nice play to escape pressure and throws a pass to Staal who just whiffs on it and it goes back the other way for a decent chance as everyone is caught up ice except Fox. It's things like that that just kill the team every time he's out there.
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Yeah, but aren’t there quite many Ds like that in the game? Just like we have a bunch of forwards who aren’t stars offensively either.

I definitely think a lot of the ‘out of position’ talk is pure back seat driving. Ppl gets pissed when we give up something, then they look around for someone to blame and pick someone they don’t like. Classic NYR issue. Next step is getting on the coach for being the dumbest ever for playing these guys instead of the kids. And it just gets worse and worse.

Three years ago AV was the dumbest ever for not playing Skjei more who had great CF% playing easy minutes on the 3rd pair with Smith. Skjei has filled out physically and gained three years of more experience — still I wonder if a lot of coaches wouldn’t put Staal out there for a defensive face off with a minute left. Skjeis CF% tanked when he started to get tougher minutes. So did Smith’s. The adjustments and relative measures used didn’t come close to be able to adjust for the reality.

My point is just, Staal is what he is. I understand that ppl aren’t naming their newborns Marc to honor him. It’s not that. But I also don’t think there is any point in after every game push the notion that he was the worst guy on the ice. Often he does a fairly good job defensively. And with the way the game is played, Ds are pushed past the brink on more or less a shift by shift basis. That is what a scoring chance is. Nobody will even remotely be perfect.the only way to not give up chances is to have the puck all the time. And with the cap and how the game is played — you always have stretches where you have to defend and it will never be pretty...
 


"Last night's game was the closest we'll come to having any semblance of a full lineup."

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Ola said:
Yeah, but aren’t there quite many Ds like that in the game? Just like we have a bunch of forwards who aren’t stars offensively either.

I definitely think a lot of the ‘out of position’ talk is pure back seat driving. Ppl gets pissed when we give up something, then they look around for someone to blame and pick someone they don’t like. Classic NYR issue. Next step is getting on the coach for being the dumbest ever for playing these guys instead of the kids. And it just gets worse and worse.

Three years ago AV was the dumbest ever for not playing Skjei more who had great CF% playing easy minutes on the 3rd pair with Smith. Skjei has filled out physically and gained three years of more experience — still I wonder if a lot of coaches wouldn’t put Staal out there for a defensive face off with a minute left. Skjeis CF% tanked when he started to get tougher minutes. So did Smith’s. The adjustments and relative measures used didn’t come close to be able to adjust for the reality.

My point is just, Staal is what he is. I understand that ppl aren’t naming their newborns Marc to honor him. It’s not that. But I also don’t think there is any point in after every game push the notion that he was the worst guy on the ice. Often he does a fairly good job defensively. And with the way the game is played, Ds are pushed past the brink on more or less a shift by shift basis. That is what a scoring chance is. Nobody will even remotely be perfect.the only way to not give up chances is to have the puck all the time. And with the cap and how the game is played — you always have stretches where you have to defend and it will never be pretty...
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there is soooooo much wrong with this I don’t even know where to begin.

Staal has negative on ice effects with nearly everyone he plays with. Not just corsi, but more telling stats like xGF%, HDSA, etc. With him in not just the obvious egregious mistakes, it’s the ones that happen 10-15 seconds before a goal that are way too common.

He is often the worst player on the ice and he gets a ton of minutes, that is an issue. He wasn’t last night, but that doesn’t mean he was good or even “fine.” I don’t understand why the bar is set so low for the guy.

And the play that led to the goal was bad luck, but bad luck that happened because staal’s slow ass got bodied off of the puck by a 170 pound forward. Those are the types of mistakes he can’t fix.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
there is soooooo much wrong with this I don’t even know where to begin.

Staal has negative on ice effects with nearly everyone he plays with. Not just corsi, but more telling stats like xGF%, HDSA, etc. With him in not just the obvious egregious mistakes, it’s the ones that happen 10-15 seconds before a goal that are way too common.

He is often the worst player on the ice and he gets a ton of minutes, that is an issue. He wasn’t last night, but that doesn’t mean he was good or even “fine.” I don’t understand why the bar is set so low for the guy.

And the play that led to the goal was bad luck, but bad luck that happened because staal’s slow ass got bodied off of the puck by a 170 pound forward. Those are the types of mistakes he can’t fix.
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We appreciate your objective view of Marc Staal, goawaystaal.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Sorry I couldn’t flood you with blanket statements like “he’s a rock solid defender” and “fine for his role.”

Get that some of you like the guy, but it’s okay to call a spade a spade.
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I think Staal is one of those rare occasions where the stat geeks and the eye test people unanimously agree about something.
 
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Ola said:
So how about this lineup:

Kreider-Strome-Ziba
Panarin-Names-Buch
Lemieux-Howden-Fast
Haley-Boo-McKegg

No 1 Line in HFD:
Lias-Chytil-Kravy

Then after Strome and Names have boosted their value enough to reach 7th round pick lvls we trade them the **** away.

Questions?
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Yes, two of them...what did I just read, and why does my head hurt?
 
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Hi fellas/fellettes, was just wondering how Adam Fox has been looking in camp? Is he probable to make the team?

Very intriguing prospect for me. Just has such great poise and can really control the tempo of a game with the puck on his stick when I've watched him. It's when it's not on his stick that seemed like a bit of an issue but I don't know if that'll be enough to keep him out of the NHL this year.
 
jas said:
My guess is he has no feel for the position.
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Meaning?

Bounces R Way said:
Hi fellas/fellettes, was just wondering how Adam Fox has been looking in camp? Is he probable to make the team?

Very intriguing prospect for me. Just has such great poise and can really control the tempo of a game with the puck on his stick when I've watched him. It's when it's not on his stick that seemed like a bit of an issue but I don't know if that'll be enough to keep him out of the NHL this year.
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Better than advertised for me.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Sorry I couldn’t flood you with blanket statements like “he’s a rock solid defender” and “fine for his role.”

Get that some of you like the guy, but it’s okay to call a spade a spade.
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I'm teasing you. You do seem to take it personal if people are short of hostile towards him.

Notice that I didn't mention anything about Staal, but you assume I had a particular view. It's going to be a long two years if you don't find a way to ignore some of the Staal things.
 
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