GDT: Rangers 2019 Training Camp Thread: Part II

[Raspewtin]

I'm bored at work so here are my general camp thoughts:

1. Tony D is really really really good at some of the premier offensive skills for defensemen but he's garbage at some of the fundamentals of defense. I think he's pretty far away the best offensive D on the team in terms of skill and he had an excellent camp, but he will probably get some more "lessons" in NHL fundamentals.

2. Trouba had a horrible camp. I'm not concerned but he was, no exaggeration, god-awful. Slow and dumb decision making.

3. Fox never makes the wrong decision. He and Tony ran away with best defensemen on the team this camp. That kind of puck moving in the line-up will be really exciting to watch. Really hope he can keep it up.

4. Panarin is just an incredible hockey player and I'm really looking forward to watching a whole year of him.

5. I liked Lemieux a lot more than I thought I would. In addition to his usual antics, he really made his presence felt with his forechecking and cycling ability, and parking his thick ass in the slot has really caused chaos for the opposition. His line with Lias and Names were outstanding together and I don't see how you can break them up.

6. Speaking of which, Namestnikov had a great camp. I think his (garbage) contract kinda taints perception of him. He's bland and boring but he's very much an NHL player and has useful NHL skills. I don't think we've been able to slot him into a good situation for the kind of player he is until now.

7. I'm disappointed in Chytil. I don't think his performance warrants an AHL stint and I don't think he was given an ideal situation but I'm disappointed. He needs to carry the puck and make plays and I didn't see him doing much of that, especially considering I don't see him getting PP time and the center experiment might be over before it started. I don't think he was bad, just "good enough". I wouldn't send him down though.

8. Kravtsov, lowkey, had a good camp. I know his camp hallmark was a lot of his dumb passes but I think it's a good learning opportunity for him. He's an outstanding passer and I think he really started to get a sense towards the end of what kind of plays he could make and when. I'd send him to the A but that's not really an indictment on him. I'd especially like for him to get 1PP time if he were to go to the A.

9. Based on camp alone, I don't feel strongly about who gets a spot between Hajek and Lindgren. I've always thought Lindgren is the significantly more limited player but him and Libor had similar "meh" camps. I think they should both play (I know they won't) but it might be closer than I thought.

10. Boo Nieves sucks butt and I really don't want to see him anymore.

11. McKegg and Haley had decent camps for who they are but I still think they stuck around 2 more games than they should have.

12. They're veterans so I'm not shocked but Kreider and Buch had outstanding camps.

13. I know he's 18 and first NHL camp blah blah but I expected more from Kakko. Again, not concerend.

14. Brett Howden is not and in my opinion will not be an NHL player. Someone compared him to Brandon Sutter and I shuttered because I can see exactly what they were talking about. I hope I'm wrong but nothing about his play inspires me.

15. Joe Morrow should've gotten one game and been cut immediately. Garbage player.

16. I'm sure other teams do this but in general I think the team really lets these do-nothing tweeners stick around way too long and I don't really understand it. It's not the end of the world but I think minus 1 or 2 players you should be icing your full lineup by game 4.

17. Lias rocked. I was really harsh on him last year and this past offseason but he had a great camp and I really hope he keeps it up.

thx4listen

 

[Ola]

After a player passes waivers, he can be sent down in the next 30 days or 10 games, whichever comes first (CBA article 13.5(i) on page 73)

Yeah, and think — but I am not 100% — that you also can demote a player, get him off the cap, but tell him to stay in NY and practice with the team.

That a demotion in reality is a registration of for which team a player can play games for and that it doesn’t mean that you physically must go to that place and actually practice with that team and play games for it.

 

[Ola]

I'm bored at work so here are my general camp thoughts:

1. Tony D is really really really good at some of the premier offensive skills for defensemen but he's garbage at some of the fundamentals of defense. I think he's pretty far away the best offensive D on the team in terms of skill and he had an excellent camp, but he will probably get some more "lessons" in NHL fundamentals.

2. Trouba had a horrible camp. I'm not concerned but he was, no exaggeration, god-awful. Slow and dumb decision making.

3. Fox never makes the wrong decision. He and Tony ran away with best defensemen on the team this camp. That kind of puck moving in the line-up will be really exciting to watch. Really hope he can keep it up.

4. Panarin is just an incredible hockey player and I'm really looking forward to watching a whole year of him.

5. I liked Lemieux a lot more than I thought I would. In addition to his usual antics, he really made his presence felt with his forechecking and cycling ability, and parking his thick ass in the slot has really caused chaos for the opposition. His line with Lias and Names were outstanding together and I don't see how you can break them up.

6. Speaking of which, Namestnikov had a great camp. I think his (garbage) contract kinda taints perception of him. He's bland and boring but he's very much an NHL player and has useful NHL skills. I don't think we've been able to slot him into a good situation for the kind of player he is until now.

7. I'm disappointed in Chytil. I don't think his performance warrants an AHL stint and I don't think he was given an ideal situation but I'm disappointed. He needs to carry the puck and make plays and I didn't see him doing much of that, especially considering I don't see him getting PP time and the center experiment might be over before it started. I don't think he was bad, just "good enough". I wouldn't send him down though.

8. Kravtsov, lowkey, had a good camp. I know his camp hallmark was a lot of his dumb passes but I think it's a good learning opportunity for him. He's an outstanding passer and I think he really started to get a sense towards the end of what kind of plays he could make and when. I'd send him to the A but that's not really an indictment on him. I'd especially like for him to get 1PP time if he were to go to the A.

9. Based on camp alone, I don't feel strongly about who gets a spot between Hajek and Lindgren. I've always thought Lindgren is the significantly more limited player but him and Libor had similar "meh" camps. I think they should both play (I know they won't) but it might be closer than I thought.

10. Boo Nieves sucks butt and I really don't want to see him anymore.

11. McKegg and Haley had decent camps for who they are but I still think they stuck around 2 more games than they should have.

12. They're veterans so I'm not shocked but Kreider and Buch had outstanding camps.

13. I know he's 18 and first NHL camp blah blah but I expected more from Kakko. Again, not concerend.

14. Brett Howden is not and in my opinion will not be an NHL player. Someone compared him to Brandon Sutter and I shuttered because I can see exactly what they were talking about. I hope I'm wrong but nothing about his play inspires me.

15. Joe Morrow should've gotten one game and been cut immediately. Garbage player.

16. I'm sure other teams do this but in general I think the team really lets these do-nothing tweeners stick around way too long and I don't really understand it. It's not the end of the world but I think minus 1 or 2 players you should be icing your full lineup by game 4.

17. Lias rocked. I was really harsh on him last year and this past offseason but he had a great camp and I really hope he keeps it up.

thx4listen

Rasp I really agree with basically all of this and no need to thanks for the time because it was a pleasure to read!

I don’t mind Boo, but I think we ultimately agree on him just looking at it from different perspectives.

Felt like Kakko never really got any traction, no games that ended up on his shoulder, but the glimpses of what to come was still there. Those early PPs against NYI in G1 were insane.

The problem I have with Howden is his usage. I would like to see him in a more of a limited role. Energy winger with some size that can go to the net and fight hard for lose pucks. I for example reacted on the report that he had lost weight. By all reports he has worked hard during the off season, lost fat, and improved his physics. But — I don’t think he should be a guy that thrives after maximum speed and mobility. I would like to see him pack some muscles.

And my point isn’t that he should become like Adam Graves II. But the game is different now, the players that has more of a complimentary role have to be able to skate hard and move he puck and Howden can do that. Think he would benefit from playing on the wing though with the main puck responsibilities weighing on his line mates and not him.

 

[Leetch3]

I'm bored at work so here are my general camp thoughts:

1. Tony D is really really really good at some of the premier offensive skills for defensemen but he's garbage at some of the fundamentals of defense. I think he's pretty far away the best offensive D on the team in terms of skill and he had an excellent camp, but he will probably get some more "lessons" in NHL fundamentals.

2. Trouba had a horrible camp. I'm not concerned but he was, no exaggeration, god-awful. Slow and dumb decision making.

3. Fox never makes the wrong decision. He and Tony ran away with best defensemen on the team this camp. That kind of puck moving in the line-up will be really exciting to watch. Really hope he can keep it up.

4. Panarin is just an incredible hockey player and I'm really looking forward to watching a whole year of him.

5. I liked Lemieux a lot more than I thought I would. In addition to his usual antics, he really made his presence felt with his forechecking and cycling ability, and parking his thick ass in the slot has really caused chaos for the opposition. His line with Lias and Names were outstanding together and I don't see how you can break them up.

6. Speaking of which, Namestnikov had a great camp. I think his (garbage) contract kinda taints perception of him. He's bland and boring but he's very much an NHL player and has useful NHL skills. I don't think we've been able to slot him into a good situation for the kind of player he is until now.

7. I'm disappointed in Chytil. I don't think his performance warrants an AHL stint and I don't think he was given an ideal situation but I'm disappointed. He needs to carry the puck and make plays and I didn't see him doing much of that, especially considering I don't see him getting PP time and the center experiment might be over before it started. I don't think he was bad, just "good enough". I wouldn't send him down though.

8. Kravtsov, lowkey, had a good camp. I know his camp hallmark was a lot of his dumb passes but I think it's a good learning opportunity for him. He's an outstanding passer and I think he really started to get a sense towards the end of what kind of plays he could make and when. I'd send him to the A but that's not really an indictment on him. I'd especially like for him to get 1PP time if he were to go to the A.

9. Based on camp alone, I don't feel strongly about who gets a spot between Hajek and Lindgren. I've always thought Lindgren is the significantly more limited player but him and Libor had similar "meh" camps. I think they should both play (I know they won't) but it might be closer than I thought.

10. Boo Nieves sucks butt and I really don't want to see him anymore.

11. McKegg and Haley had decent camps for who they are but I still think they stuck around 2 more games than they should have.

12. They're veterans so I'm not shocked but Kreider and Buch had outstanding camps.

13. I know he's 18 and first NHL camp blah blah but I expected more from Kakko. Again, not concerend.

14. Brett Howden is not and in my opinion will not be an NHL player. Someone compared him to Brandon Sutter and I shuttered because I can see exactly what they were talking about. I hope I'm wrong but nothing about his play inspires me.

15. Joe Morrow should've gotten one game and been cut immediately. Garbage player.

16. I'm sure other teams do this but in general I think the team really lets these do-nothing tweeners stick around way too long and I don't really understand it. It's not the end of the world but I think minus 1 or 2 players you should be icing your full lineup by game 4.

17. Lias rocked. I was really harsh on him last year and this past offseason but he had a great camp and I really hope he keeps it up.

thx4listen

for chytil & kravtsov...I don't think the issue is so much that they played themselves to the AHL, but the discussion is whether or not that is what is best for their long term development. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see chytil in the opening night lineup. But if he's playing wing in the bottom 6 is that best for his development? especially if the team still thinks he can be a center one day. the decision with the kids is more complex than just being 1 of the 12 best forwards.

 

[Tawnos]

@Raspewtin sort of shockingly, I agree with a lot of your assessments there. The only couple of things I would say...

2.) I thought Trouba was fine. He's got 6 years of Winnipeg to unlearn, which is a challenge for any D, but also distinguishes him from someone like Fox whose habits aren't as ingrained.

6.) Namestnikov's contract isn't garbage. $4m for a middle-6 player, even if he leans more towards 3rd liner, is a fair contract. It only feels like it's garbage because of our cap situation.

9.) I thought Hajek and Lindgren both looked better than meh, for rookies, but I also agree that one didn't stand out over the other.

16.) This really depends on what your goals are for camp and for the season. Really, wins aren't the priority for the year. Having your full lineup together playing the last couple of games of pre-season so you can hit the ground running isn't as important as seeing as much as possible from the guys you're making decisions on, so that decision can be as informed as possible. Admittedly, AV did this unnecessarily, which makes it feel like an unbroken trend with the team. I'll be interested to see what Quinn does in this regard once the competitive roster is truly established.

 

[offdacrossbar]

the story of camp imo is how pedestrian chytl looked. he did very little. all camp.

filip had the chance to take the open 2C spot and run with it. and ???

then theres howden who looked blah as well. nothing stood out with him.

andersson looked the best of this bunch but again, low bar.

none of them have showed the dynamic talent we needed them to show.

the story is really how little the 3 of them showed and how this "BIG 3" hasnt stood out much. this is the "future" of this franchise up the middle, yet looks like 26 yr old ryan strome is the 2C breaking camp. he won the job by default. he simply was less bad than the other 3.

i would say the search for that true 2C is still ongoing and it may well be outside those 3-4 guys where the help comes from.

 

[Tawnos]

the story of camp imo is how pedestrian chytl looked. he did very little. all camp.

filip had the chance to take the open 2C spot and run with it. and ???

then theres howden who looked blah as well. nothing stood out with him.

andersson looked the best of this bunch but again, low bar.

none of them have showed the dynamic talent we needed them to show.

the story is really how little the 3 of them showed and how this "BIG 3" hasnt stood out much. this is the "future" of this franchise up the middle, yet looks like 26 yr old ryan strome is the 2C breaking camp. he won the job by default. he simply was less bad than the other 3.

i would say the search for that true 2C is still ongoing and it may well be outside those 3-4 guys where the help comes from.

I think we need to be careful about drawing strong conclusions about the future of these players from the pre-season games. Many of the 2Cs around the league had their breakout seasons at 22-23. Howden, the oldest of the group, is still just 21.

And yes, I consider "the search for that true 2C" is too strong of a conclusion about them.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Hajek and Lindgren should both be on the LHD depth chart over Staal but it won't happen. Hajek looked really solid against the Fish paired with Tony.

Watching both Hajek and Lindgren in that last game reaffirmed to me how much Staal really sucks. Staal loses so many puck races compared to those guys during Puck Retrieval. Playing with Marc Staal is like playing with a handicap at this point

There's just no reason Marc Staal should get minutes over those 2 guys....he should be the 7thD riding pine and gets to play when one of the kids need a maintenance day.

Ideally, the pairings would be 76-8, 43-77, 55-23 with Staal or Smith to step in if one of the kids needs a break or can't handle the minutes yet.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think we need to be careful about drawing strong conclusions about the future of these players from the pre-season games. Many of the 2Cs around the league had their breakout seasons at 22-23. Howden, the oldest of the group, is still just 21.

And yes, I consider "the search for that true 2C" is too strong of a conclusion about them.

right now today, those 3 failed to grab ahold of anything close to a 2C spot.

which is WIDE OPEN for the taking.

is it too much to ask one of them to make a better showing ? chytl seemed to regress. howden ? nothing.

they are all young and they are all talented but are they dynamic enough to play top 6 ? no one is saying these guys wont play but the search for that 2C continues.....

 

[Tawnos]

right now today, those 3 failed to grab ahold of anything close to a 2C spot.

which is WIDE OPEN for the taking.

is it too much to ask one of them to make a better showing ? chytl seemed to regress. howden ? nothing.

they are all young and they are all talented but are they dynamic enough to play top 6 ? no one is saying these guys wont play but the search for that 2C continues.....

It's possible that it IS too much to ask for them to make a better showing at this stage of their careers.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I mean, if Quinn was serious about Chytil being the potential 2C, you'd think he'd give him at least a full game to play with his potential line mates.

I get not handing him a spot, but there's a big difference between playing with Kreider and Kakko and playing with whatever middling NHL players he was with.

All that said I don't think it makes a difference, Quinn's comments over the weekend about potentially sending Chytil down pretty seals the deal he'll be sent down.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Chytil had the most disappointing camp of all.

didn’t have the worst camp because people who I expected to suck did but I was expecting big things from him.

 

[Kovalev27]

Camp is OVA

 

[offdacrossbar]

It's possible that it IS too much to ask for them to make a better showing at this stage of their careers.

again fair take. it may well be too much for these young kids.

but chytl is a sophomore and hes been around a bit now. he was handed that spot and didn't do enough/anything to keep it. the team wanted him there. now its #16's spot.

chytl is just 20 yrs old and playing the 2C is a tall order. i agree. he didnt even look that good on the edge though. he just didnt perform.

is it that hes just too young and inexperienced or is it that hes lacking something ?

 

[haveandare]

I still don’t see what Chytil did that was so disappointing . He looked mostly invisible playing with bubble players. Had a few good chances. Didn’t stand out as being bad much if at all imo.

That’s not great, you'd hope he’d stand out and be a driver ideally, but if people were expecting him to suddenly be a force and be capable of driving a line with borderline players, that was a fairly unrealistic expectation.

The question is, can he be a functional 2C on a line with top 6 wingers? Can he do that better than Strome? Imo we don’t know and never got to see.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

again fair take. it may well be too much for these young kids.

but chytl is a sophomore and hes been around a bit now. he was handed that spot and didn't do enough/anything to keep it. the team wanted him there. now its #16's spot.

chytl is just 20 yrs old and playing the 2C is a tall order. i agree. he didnt even look that good on the edge though. he just didnt perform.

is it that hes just too young and inexperienced or is it that hes lacking something ?

He’s only lacking something if the eye of the beholder refuses to acknowledge they lack patience and understanding

 

[Gardner McKay]

Training camp is over and most of the roster updates have already been posted in the Roster Building thread.

Closed.