OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Dull days of July

[bigdaddyk88]

He did homer yesterday in AAA
Yorke is playing 1st 2nd and CF

 

[BusinessGoose]

 

[WickedWrister]

Everything about this is Scoreboard and Termarr's slow ass trot, pitcher waving it goodbye

 

[wheelz87]

Everything about this is Scoreboard and Termarr's slow ass trot

lovely, a hot-dogger.

 

[BusinessGoose]

lovely, a hot-dogger.

Take it easy, he's no soto

And I'm pretty sure he's bored playing down there

 

[WickedWrister]

Maybe I should all just watch AAA Indy baseball instead lol... I am legitimately more intrigued about the development of some of the guys down there than most of the big league club roster. They had another come from behind victory today to complete the sweep, seem to play a more exciting brand of baseball, and are in contention for postseason play.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Maybe I should all just watch AAA Indy baseball instead lol... I am legitimately more intrigued about the development of some of the guys down there than most of the big league club roster. They had another come from behind victory today to complete the sweep, seem to play a more exciting brand of baseball, and are in contention for postseason play.

Capps on tv said we should be watching Indianapolis anyway. You know it’s that time of year when they start promoting their 25 rotation and potential lineup beforehand

 

[ChaosAgent]

Maybe I should all just watch AAA Indy baseball instead lol... I am legitimately more intrigued about the development of some of the guys down there than most of the big league club roster. They had another come from behind victory today to complete the sweep, seem to play a more exciting brand of baseball, and are in contention for postseason play.

"Watch the guys who sunk the major league team this season break even against exponentially easier pitching "

 

[bigdaddyk88]

"Watch the guys who sunk the major league team this season break even against exponentially easier pitching "

Who are you referring to exactly?
Of the top 4 hitters in Indy only Davis has been up here and watching Bart finally start to click should show us to be patient

 

[ChaosAgent]

Who are you referring to exactly?
Of the top 4 hitters in Indy only Davis has been up here and watching Bart finally start to click should show us to be patient

Suwinski, Olivares and Davis are 1/3 of the starting lineup in Indy.

Of course I monitor the minors and want our prospects to do well. But without a doubt the gap between AA/AAA and the majors has NEVER been higher.

Joey Bart was never as bad in San Francisco as Henry Davis has been here. Regardless, since the guy is here I'll hope he turns it around next year. And maybe stops being a baby about playing a different position.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Suwinski, Olivares and Davis are 1/3 of the starting lineup in Indy.

Of course I monitor the minors and want our prospects to do well. But without a doubt the gap between AA/AAA and the majors has NEVER been higher.

Joey Bart was never as bad in San Francisco as Henry Davis has been here. Regardless, since the guy is here I'll hope he turns it around next year. And maybe stops being a baby about playing a different position.

Jack is hitting under 200 with 1 homer in Indy
Olivarez is hitting 270 with 2 homers
The top 3 hitter are yorke davis and cook
Davis numbers last season are pretty close to the best season bart had in 2022

 

[WickedWrister]

"Watch the guys who sunk the major league team this season break even against exponentially easier pitching "

Was talking more about Cook/Yorke/Davis/Harrington/Chandler

 

[PensandCaps]

Why were they playing Grandal in the first half so much, when you got Bart. under 200 ABs for our best hitter all year, Shelton is a genius. I'd rather have Jason Delay than Grandal as well. I don't get why Delay was off the roster all year when he's a pretty decent hitter for a catcher. Why did they waste money on Grandal when they already had 3 MLB caliber Cs?

 

[BusinessGoose]

Why did they waste money on Grandal when they already had 3 MLB caliber Cs?

Davis was questionably useful based on how bad he was last year (and he ended up sucking to start the year anyway)

Endy out on long term injury

Delay... Wasnt he coming back from injury too?

Who are the 3 MLB catchers youre referring to?

So we were going into the year with Davis as our starter and that wasn't safe. Grandal sucks but like, he's a dumpster dive willing to sign which is all we do

 

[PensandCaps]

Davis was questionably useful based on how bad he was last year (and he ended up sucking to start the year anyway)

Endy out on long term injury

Delay... Wasnt he coming back from injury too?

Who are the 3 MLB catchers youre referring to?

So we were going into the year with Davis as our starter and that wasn't safe. Grandal sucks but like, he's a dumpster dive willing to sign which is all we do

Any bum off the street would have been better than Grandal. And yah Bart got hurt, so that explains his low ABs, but they could have used him more. Davis if given a chance would have done better certainly.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Any bum off the street would have been better than Grandal. And yah Bart got hurt, so that explains his low ABs, but they could have used him more. Davis if given a chance would have done better certainly.

Davis did get plenty of chances and he was the worst hitter on the team (which is saying something). I think Delay > Grandal though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Delay isn't better than Grandal. Grandal is the 2nd best catcher in the organization right now.

Grandal actually has some fairly decent batted ball data, his expected OPS is about .700 on the year. Not only that, but he's also a very good framing catcher. Delay's offense has always been horrid and he's also a bit worse defensively than Grandal.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825340131743592477

This doesn't make much sense at all. The season is basically over. It's one thing not to bother with Davis even though he's hitting well in AAA.

But you might as well give some MLB ABs to a guy like Billy Cook, who has done nothing but hit since he was acquired.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Absent thoughts:
The priorities for this off-season are:
1) Offload Hayes and his contract by any means necessary
2) Obtain a controllable impact bat

To that end my hot take is that Jared Jones is our most intriguing asset as we enter the off-season.
Jones is an explosive pitcher with unreal stuff, but the results have a history of lagging behind the stuff. Which was starting to happen in the MLB. In addition, he has a slight frame and is a significant injury risk moving forward IMO.

The results were already leveling out in May-June before he got hurt.
If you gave truth serum to this thread, I bet the majority are more hyped for Chandler than they are for Jones. At the same time he would probably be valued as a 60FV prospect or so.


To that end, here's a trade package coming to my mind:
To NYY: Jared Jones, Ke'Bryan Hayes
To PIT: Jasson Dominguez, Chase Hampton

Take a big bet on Dominguez being an impact bat immediately and a competent CF. Unload Hayes fully and completely and letting his "3 WAR defense" flourish in NYY. Or just letting him go away. Whichever works.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Billy turns 30 on Friday he is an organization AAA filler

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Billy turns 30 on Friday he is an organization AAA filler

Hell ya, just got of the phone with a ticket rep to get my playoff tickets ready.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Trading Jones would be tricky because as solid of a 1-2 punch as Skenes-Keller is, it would put more pressure there as well as on options that are less clearly proven in the #3 and beyond role like Ortiz. It would be an easier pill to swallow if we had invested in a mid-rotation stalwart like Lugo or Wacha, and obviously Flaherty was priced that way but has pitched way better.

Still, all that said, I think it's a pretty logical conclusion that we may have to deal pitching for hitting. Before speculating about possibilities, though, the only thing I'd want to add is that we can't be overly reliant on prospects and young players for 2025. It may be what actually ends up happening because the Pirates are incredibly cheap, but there has to be breakneck urgency to build an MLB team that's ready for 2025 as already-one-year-late of the window.

I don't think I'm saying anything novel that others will disagree with here, but what we have seen from Skenes is freakish and almost certainly never happens. Maybe the closest analogue is Henderson. Jones' emergence on the scene was also an anomaly, and there will probably be some growing pains there as he settles into what he'll be in MLB. Hell, even Skenes has started to see some less than pristine command cause issues, coupled with being a few ticks down in velo (which makes me think he should be ramped down sooner rather than later, i.e. one or two more starts).

I think Solution A for this team is to actually spend on a big bat in free agency. Teoscar Hernandez and Anthony Santander both stand to get paid a lot, but there are also older corner OFs are best, which is not the type of free agent that teams give mega deals to. They'll still take way more than what the Pirates ever give out (and for that reason, we have no reason at all to think we'd sign one), but my point is that they should be attainable to fix the heavy power bat in the #4/5 spot of the lineup while still enabling some more money to be spent improving a few other spots, and nothing will break the bank for 2025 or beyond.

That sets yo up for a team with at least more of a fighting chance in 2025, and you can hopefully start counting on a few more prospect reinforcements from the pitchers and ideally someone like Johnson before too long (though 2026 is probably the earliest there).

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can see the argument for trading Jones, but I don't think that is a move you can make this off-season. I think you need at least 1 of these things to happen to justify trading Jones:

1. One of Chandler, Ashcraft or Burrows bursts onto the scene like Jones did this year.
2. Falter, Oviedo and Ortiz all show they're reliable #3/4 starters next year and you can be comfortable with a rotation of Skenes, Keller, Oviedo, Ortiz and Falter.

Right now, I think both of those are far too unknown/risky to justify moving Jones this off-season. I'm nervous to even expect Oviedo to be a SP for them next year, let alone a reliable #3/4. His track record isn't any better than Falter's (who I'm also a bit nervous about going forward due to his terrible underlying numbers) and he's coming off TJS. If he can be just a good bullpen arm next year, that's a massive win in itself.

I think the best plan with their starters right now is Skenes, Keller, Jones, Ortiz and Falter in the rotation, Oviedo as a short/middle reliever (same role as Ortiz earlier this year) and you sign another starter (someone like 2023 Velasquez or 2024 German) to be the mop-up long reliever.

 

[WickedWrister]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1825340131743592477

This doesn't make much sense at all. The season is basically over. It's one thing not to bother with Davis even though he's hitting well in AAA.

But you might as well give some MLB ABs to a guy like Billy Cook, who has done nothing but hit since he was acquired.

Yeah I don't get it either. It's not like Cook is some 21 or 22 year old that they don't want to rush and risk ruining his development. Dude's 25 and has almost 2000 plate appearances in college + minors. Do Cook and Yorke not have to be added to the 40 man roster anyway since they would be eligible for the rule 5 draft? Just waiting for expanded rosters?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also if we want to be real, I don't think either Chandler or Jones get moved because Keller very probably gets traded before his contract is done and they'll need both Chandler and Jones at the top of their rotation at that point. I have a feeling that Keller is moved with a year or two left on his deal (when he's owed about $20 million a year) and Skenes, Jones and Chandler will be their top of the rotation.

Skenes and Jones will both hit arbitration in 2027, does anyone really think they'll be paying Keller $18 million when Skenes and Jones start making real money? I don't think there's a chance of that. Skenes may be setting records for what he'll be earning in arbitration in year 1 with how dominant he is, Bellinger holds the record with making $11.5 million in his first year of arbitration and Skenes may even surpass that.