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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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It's the right talk, as a starter point. We'll see the extent to which it's actually backed up.

A SP on a multi-year contract is obvious, since any commitments that the team makes really need to go beyond 2023, as even the rosiest outlook is that we'll barely claw into the WC race if everything goes perfectly. Quintana is still the perfect target and maybe the unceremonious exit for the Cardinals will keep him in reach for a big 3 year commitment.

Among younger options, Stripling is definitely having a breakout season and Manaea might be the right kind of "buy low" option, if you think he can perform at a level closer to the 2021 season than 2022. He should play up in the NL Central, but I also would expect him to want more of a one year, prove it deal, which isn't what we should be looking for.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:


This one is the real kicker in terms of "put up or shut up" comments.

I'm happy to see him making them -- to be honest, they are more straightforward and committal than I thought they'd be.
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They need to recruit free agents to come here because most players don’t view the pirates as a desirable place to play. It will be interesting to see who they can sign.
 


So if Perez is healthy, I imagine the Pirates will bring him back. If BC wants a strikeout guy, I don't think Quintana is really that. I would like to bring Quintana back on a 3 year deal, but I don't know that he's the kind of guy BC meant with that comment.
 
I agree that they have a harder time than some teams convincing players to sign, but I also think money talks. It sounds like BC already is trying to walk back those quotes based on the word salad he gave to Mackey and others.

I'm not optimistic about external additions. To get the mid-range type of players who could provide modest, immediate help, we're talking about the largest contracts in team history, more or less.
 
With Quintana I’d be concerned about being left on the hook for a guy in his mid-late 30s. I wouldn’t give him more than a 2-year with a third year option
 
Empoleon8771 said:


So if Perez is healthy, I imagine the Pirates will bring him back. If BC wants a strikeout guy, I don't think Quintana is really that. I would like to bring Quintana back on a 3 year deal, but I don't know that he's the kind of guy BC meant with that comment.
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Quintana is not the kind of Pitcher that gets a 3rd year normally. 2 years, sure, but the dude is approaching 35.
 
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Gallatin said:
Since the mid-2000's, this is how I want my MLB small market GM to think.
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Yea it just depends where and how you implement the money. We can’t do stupid crap like the dbacks signing greinke to a huge deal. I think it’s more about looking at the core, looking at the window for that core, and then signing players the fill holes. We need more bullpen arms. We need a 1B/RF that can hit the baseball. And I think we need to package some of these talented prospects that dont really have a home for a solid major league ready player.
 
Personally, I'd want a GM who finishes better than last place, regardless of how sound his hedge-speak is.
 
San Diego actually doing something for once.

Not sure how to feel. Lol. Literally never seen the Pirates or the Padres have any level of success in my life time.
 
....had a talk with someone from the TX Rangers org that also worked for the Pirates at one time. He confirmed what we already know. The Pirates are a sh** show as an organization. He told me there's a complete lack of stressing fundamentals in the minors. He told me everyone talks about Tampa's use of analytics, but they have a staff of old time baseball guys that spend all their time pounding fundamentals in their prospects. He told me Hayes has always had that inside out swing, and he is what he's going to be, all glove, mediocre bat. There was a story how GMNH got fleeced by Tampa in the Archer deal, it was right out of Draft Day and Kevin Costner, plus Nutting told him to make a big splash, cause he's tired of getting trashed. There was even more.
 
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since70 said:
....had a talk with someone from the TX Rangers org that also worked for the Pirates at one time. He confirmed what we already know. The Pirates are a sh** show as an organization. He told me there's a complete lack of stressing fundamentals in the minors. He told me everyone talks about Tampa's use of analytics, but they have a staff of old time baseball guys that spend all their time pounding fundamentals in their prospects. He told me Hayes has always had that inside out swing, and he is what he's going to be, all glove, mediocre bat. There was a story how GMNH got fleeced by Tampa in the Archer deal, it was right out of Draft Day and Kevin Costner, plus Nutting told him to make a big splash, cause he's tired of getting trashed. There was even more.
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I don't doubt it. Let's see if we can overcome all of this.
 
The Rays agreed to the initial Archer deal, but one of their scouts or FO people came running in, and told them hang up the phone. Tampa said they were going to call back, and the guy says I think we can get one more player, ask for Baz. They call back give Huntington some BS about Archer's AAV, and some other crap, so we think we're getting hosed. We want Baz too, there wasn't a second of hesitation before Huntington says ok, complete clown show. I loved when he told me the Pirates ran a player centric minors program, they had a west coast guy late for 2 practices in a row, they bring him in and he tells them time change, set my alarm, but slept through it, and their response was no problem as long as you set your alarm. There's also a Kyle Stark era story that was ridiculous.
 
since70 said:
The Rays agreed to the initial Archer deal, but one of their scouts or FO people came running in, and told them hang up the phone. Tampa said they were going to call back, and the guy says I think we can get one more player, ask for Baz. They call back give Huntington some BS about Archer's AAV, and some other crap, so we think we're getting hosed. We want Baz too, there wasn't a second of hesitation before Huntington says ok, complete clown show. I loved when he told me the Pirates ran a player centric minors program, they had a west coast guy late for 2 practices in a row, they bring him in and he tells them time change, set my alarm, but slept through it, and their response was no problem as long as you set your alarm. There's also a Kyle Stark era story that was ridiculous.
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This is a completely false story.

Baz was established as the PTBNL months after the trade. He was likely one of a few options that the Pirates agreed to and they ultimately selected him at the end.

There is no situation where they agreed to Meadows and Glasnow for Archer and the Pirates just threw on Baz because. Baz was added to the trade months later.
 
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Coonelly was the decision-maker for the Archer trade and in any case, it doesn't really look all that great from Tampa's end either. They got a pop-up, pre-arb corner OF and a couple of guys who might be relievers, if Baz makes a full recovery. I think hyper-fixating on it, let alone trawling up weird cliches that can only make sense if you don't have the faintest idea who is in the front office besides the General Manager, are pretty much not deserving of any further comment.

From my perspective, the strongest line of critique of the current team besides the obvious stuff like perennial unwillingness to spend, etc., is that even under the new regime, the core decision-makers are all still in the same roles, from the analytics group to the scouting group. Cherington seemingly wants to stake out a name for himself with development, and maybe Sanders and others he has brought in will make that happen, but so far in terms of decisions being made, he's been content to perpetually kick the can while gathering players.

People will start pointing to the Guardians as an example of what can happen for a small market franchise, and that's fair to say, even if it's also fair to be skeptical that part of their success has been driven by timing this year. But they also excel at getting max results out of starting pitching and have developed a full identity around what they can do offensively (and having a phenom doesn't hurt). Every team that cuts corners needs to really have some kind of niche, and it isn't clear what Cherington's is yet. Huntington's was anticipating some trends in the game and then executing nearly perfectly for a few years. Since then, the owner both handicapped him by not allowing for a rebuild and has continued to be all talk and no action with the new GM, down to having him play the same song and dance about flexibility and not focusing on payroll.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
This is a completely false story.

Baz was established as the PTBNL months after the trade. He was likely one of a few options that the Pirates agreed to and they ultimately selected him at the end.

There is no situation where they agreed to Meadows and Glasnow for Archer and the Pirates just threw on Baz because. Baz was added to the trade months later.
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It was only two weeks later, and it could be possible it could've been agreed to and announced later for another reason?
 
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