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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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Another name out there that a few people seem to like who recently got DFA'd is Stone Garrett. RH bat, not sure what his defense is like in the OF, but could be a cheap option to throw at the wall as a platoon partner for Suwinski.

A signing would be much better, and if Endy is given a shot early in the season (at minimum in May, playing the 7th year game, but ideally earlier than that), I don't even know if we need to try to do all that much churning. The more I look at options, the more it seems like Drury is the right kind of calculated gamble. He's got enough flexibility that he can move all over, potentially opening a path to Andujar also playing his way into at least some kind of part-time role, which I assume is going to be part of the plan.

We barely got much of a look at Andujar, so I'm cautious about reading too much into it or expecting too much, but I'd rather lean towards gambling that there's still offensive upside in that bat and needing RH bats than think of him as a potential roster casualty. Even with the roster now set at 40, I count 6 or 7 spots that could be opened up with DFAs, which more than covers the handful of free agents who might be brought in.

I hesitate to lean further into Shelton's approach where most positions and lineup spots are interchangeable, but bringing in Drury as the DH and utility player would really provide some balance and stability to the lineup. There will be some competition for corner OF spots and 2B, but having that additional bat in the mix who can move all over the place will open up a lot of different possible looks. My gut says we won't do anything like this, and at most we'll bring in another fringe, cheap option to throw into the mix, but there has to be some room for a couple of additions. Still no expectations, but we shouldn't allow Cherington's comment about signing a pitcher to a multi-year deal to just vanish into the ether.
 
I'm admittedly the last person who should be chastising people for drawing up highly unlikely scenarios in the offseason, but I really can't see why some Pirates fans seem to want Bellinger as their #1 goal of the offseason. Now that he's officially being non-tendered, I only expect this chatter to continue, and while I get the appeal of someone who has put up an MVP level season and is still 27 and needing to rebuild his value, it's just not going to be with the Pirates.

He's going to look for a one year deal and he's going to have plenty of suitors, because there are better teams who are in need of a CF and will be more than willing to gamble a one year, 12-15M contract on him. I guess I would say from the perspective of taking shots at players who can then be sold as rentals at the deadline, Bellinger would be the best type of gamble because the payoff is so high, but it still just doesn't seem to be realistic at all.

I'm still largely in the camp that any mid-level signings aren't realistic until we see proof, but hoping that Cherington will try to aggressively pursue what this team needs to at least get to the next level, which is now apparently an 83-win season. That hardly inspires a lot of confidence, but I'll take that verbal commitment from the front office talking heads as better than total waffling or total silence. We're probably in for a long wait as the market has not settled at all, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by a more aggressive approach.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
I'm admittedly the last person who should be chastising people for drawing up highly unlikely scenarios in the offseason, but I really can't see why some Pirates fans seem to want Bellinger as their #1 goal of the offseason. Now that he's officially being non-tendered, I only expect this chatter to continue, and while I get the appeal of someone who has put up an MVP level season and is still 27 and needing to rebuild his value, it's just not going to be with the Pirates.

He's going to look for a one year deal and he's going to have plenty of suitors, because there are better teams who are in need of a CF and will be more than willing to gamble a one year, 12-15M contract on him. I guess I would say from the perspective of taking shots at players who can then be sold as rentals at the deadline, Bellinger would be the best type of gamble because the payoff is so high, but it still just doesn't seem to be realistic at all.

I'm still largely in the camp that any mid-level signings aren't realistic until we see proof, but hoping that Cherington will try to aggressively pursue what this team needs to at least get to the next level, which is now apparently an 83-win season. That hardly inspires a lot of confidence, but I'll take that verbal commitment from the front office talking heads as better than total waffling or total silence. We're probably in for a long wait as the market has not settled at all, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by a more aggressive approach.
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Bellinger would be cool, but we are so (too) left-handed already.

I don't really like any of our hitters against lefties outside of Castro and Castillo. Need more.
 
Yeah, targeting a RH bat would help balance the lineup a lot. Also, from what I understand, despite what we associate with the Clemente Wall and LH power hitters, PNC is about even and middle of the pack for both sides of the plate.

Voit was non-tendered by the Nationals, so that could be a platoon option for Choi if we're willing to spend some money. He's a pretty one note player, but we don't really have that RH masher. I still like some of the other options, and Drury in particular can play 1B but also lots of other positions at least competently, so he's still my preferred target right now.

Not too much of a surprise, but we tendered contracts to everyone. I could see us moving on from Newman, but I think he still has a little bit of value and realistically he's the main option we have to back up Cruz heading into the season.
 
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If Bellinger was a righty, I'd be 100% for it. But he's a lefty and this team desperately needs some righties.

I think getting an actual defensive CF to push Reynolds to LF is overall a good idea. I'd just prefer it to be a righty instead of a lefty. If Bellinger really wanted to come here and would come here cheap, I wouldn't really complain though.
 
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That is a big deal if you're hoping to see young players more and more.

I honestly don't give a shit what the return is. Newman would have only blocked people like Castro/Bae/Castillo/etc from getting reps.
 
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Looks like immediate relief help/depth (he has options remaining). Not going to get a huge return, but I'm glad to see immediate help rather than prospect depth. I don't know anything about Moreta, but he basically seems like pitching depth. Decent enough numbers that took a hit when he went to the high minors and then in his rookie year he had issues with the HR ball. Maybe they think an adjustment takes him into a more permanent type role in the pen, or maybe they just get some further pitching depth to churn.

I wouldn't have minded Newman as a security blanket but also don't disagree with the notion that it was time to move on. Especially when you consider that guys like Gonzales or Peguero could in theory press for callups next year, and there's already some logjam that exists with guys like Bae.
 


Seems like he had a stronger finish to the year as well. Reds fans don't seem too happy because Farmer to Newman is a downgrade, and they got a RP for Farmer who they don't like as much as the RP they sent for Newman.

We'll see if Moreta can actually contribute, but an up/down depth arm with some options left who covers innings is probably still not a bad return.

I don't mean to cite this as any kind of defense of Newman or wish that he wasn't traded, but I do think it's still worth emphasizing that we've taken apart some of the bigger pieces of a 2022 team that was already atrocious. There's obviously reason for optimism with a full year of Cruz, other prospects, maybe even some bounceback or offseason adjustment out of Hayes, but short of adding, at the start of free agency, 2023 still looks fairly bleak. If we can secure an RH bat, a SP, and another arm or two, I'll at least be willing to ride the optimism train as far as it can take us next year.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:


Seems like he had a stronger finish to the year as well. Reds fans don't seem too happy because Farmer to Newman is a downgrade, and they got a RP for Farmer who they don't like as much as the RP they sent for Newman.

We'll see if Moreta can actually contribute, but an up/down depth arm with some options left who covers innings is probably still not a bad return.

I don't mean to cite this as any kind of defense of Newman or wish that he wasn't traded, but I do think it's still worth emphasizing that we've taken apart some of the bigger pieces of a 2022 team that was already atrocious. There's obviously reason for optimism with a full year of Cruz, other prospects, maybe even some bounceback or offseason adjustment out of Hayes, but short of adding, at the start of free agency, 2023 still looks fairly bleak. If we can secure an RH bat, a SP, and another arm or two, I'll at least be willing to ride the optimism train as far as it can take us next year.
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I'm getting kinda annoyed with this payroll thing. Now's The Time To Add. I feel very strongly three or four key pieces costing no more than 30 million could make a huge difference. That wouldn't even get us over 80 million in payroll at this point.

Hard to get excited right now, however I'm encouraged to see BC trading for the players he so clearly doesn't want to buy in free agency. Now he needs to trade for a lefty relief pitcher, a catcher, and a starting pitcher. Then we can get a team out there for under 50 mil that can compete ...
 
Yeah, that's a little promising at least. I have gone back and forth on this in the early offseason, but I think the subtraction of Quintana right now compared to last year is the biggest blow (to an already bad team).

Even assuming the current group holds their ground or steps forward and we get general health, adding Quintana himself again or some other above average starter is necessary in order to get to that next level of middle of the pack, fringe-WC contender.

I also wonder if that might be an indication that we see Andujar more as a DH/OF type player than much of an option at 1B. We'll see -- Choi is a good defender, so he can be a primary option over there, but there are a number of other 1B options who won't really break the bank. Voit stands out as an obvious RH power bat who could spot Choi sometimes and be a primary DH, I've sounded the Drury bell a bunch of times already, and then there's another opportunity/reclamation type guy in Dom Smith -- he's a lefty so it might not be the most obvious fit with Choi, but there's basically no DH right now, so I wouldn't assume additions have to be RH, though if we did add another LH bat, then the need for adding an additional bat that is RH is even greater.

That said, the place to spend real money is definitely the rotation. Quintana is older and I know that might make people a bit nervous, but there's basically no veteran leadership on the team (and fwiw, Reynolds does not strike me as someone who would step into that role, extension or not) and he was widely loved by everyone. If he's willing to have a reunion (a huge if), I think his style will age pretty well in the NL Central and PNC Park, so he's my top choice. The other names I've seen people throw around are Wacha and Manaea. Signing someone to a one year deal doesn't excite me all that much.
 
Jason Mackey
@JMackeyPG

Another quote from Pirates GM Ben Cherington: "We're not ruling out adding to our infield mix in some way this offseason. The first base/DH thing is still an area we're looking at."
 
The other obvious way to bring in a starting pitcher is via trade. The latest rumor with the Marlins seems to be that they are open to dealing Rogers more than Lopez, which is a bit strange given that Rogers' value is lower than it could be.

The Marlins always seem to be looking for an OF, and I don't know that we're a good matchup there. Maybe the one option that might intrigue them is Suwinski, but it's really hard to gauge their situation. The Marlins and Pirates are kinda similar teams in that they have some pieces to build around, some prospects, but also a long road to go in order to get to where they need to get to -- and in their case at least, a way tougher division.

I wouldn't be opposed to trading from the middle infield depth for Rogers, or even necessarily to using Suwinski in such a deal. I find Suwinski pretty hard to assess. It might be the case that he provides some real deal power and becomes an even better player as a strong side platoon guy. But he might regress and strikeouts might get to him that it really eliminates his usefulness. We don't exactly have the luxury to move potentially productive pieces, but I'd definitely be calling on Rogers if I were BC.

Finally, he's not a LHP, but a pitcher who I would be thrilled to invest in is Stripling. I assume he'll have suitors coming off a breakout campaign where he proved it in a tough division, but he's 32 and has the advantage of not having a ton of mileage on his arm due to being a swingman for so long. He might still be in that sweet spot of "affordable if we're serious about actually investing in the payroll", and he could be a sneaky sleeper to really be an impactful #2, later breakout type somewhat in the way Musgrove was, although there are obvious differences between them. MLBTR projected 2/18, so maybe something like 3/27 with a clear path to full time starter would appeal to him.
 
Picked up Nate Webb off waivers from KC. Big fastball. Was ranked royals 14 prospect before last season. Had an ugly injury filled year.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
Interesting get on a minor league deal, sounds like he briefly showed some promise in the AFL.
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I think its telling of the two moves and most unexpected prospect add to the 40 man are all upper level relievers.

None are likely difference makers but having functional middle relief options is an easy path to improvements
 
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Yeah, if the projected rotation performs pretty well and we bolster it with a veteran, then having real middle relief and not needing to just run every bullpen arm into the ground will be pretty crucial.

Haven't seen any quotes from BC about it, but RP also should be one of the easier low cost ways to add in free agency.
 


Not a bad depth pickup. I don't think it's a coincidence that the short-term options we've given ourselves at 1B (in theory, I suppose Diaz has several years of control, but let's not put the cart before the horse) are noted as strong defenders at 1B.

Based on how much money he'll make, I assume Choi will be a primary starter/someone who DHs when he isn't starting. I don't really think Diaz is more than a depth/opportunity flier, but we still need a RH bat. Drury is my top pick, especially because I don't think a guy like Haniger is going to be an option, given that he's already getting looked at by teams like the Dodgers.

I assume Andujar will be primarily in the mix in the corner OF spots and at DH, and I figure we'll keep some opportunity open for him since we sought him out and now have already worked out a contract to avoid arbitration. Still, we need a viable RH bat to really balance things out, and Drury would work perfectly as a primary DH/RH 1B and occasional outfielder depending on matchups and substitutions. I wouldn't turn my nose up at Luke Voit, but he'd be a mainly DH and occasionally 1B option, and I think more flexibility is better in terms of eventually having Endy work his way into the mix (my assumption is he can be the 1B catcher and DH in other games, occasionally playing the field).
 
Brewers fans don't seem too happy about trading Renfroe for a quantity of arms. They seem to be going sideways at most, and I guess might be in a position where they try to be a strong pitching/defense team that maybe bolsters themselves at the deadline. It should be a weak division again, though the Cardinals are probably poised to run away with it, especially if they make some bigger additions this winter.

With the Angels now having an OF of Ward, Trout, and Renfroe, I can't help but wonder if Adell might be a buy low candidate. He would provide the RH bat, though he'd obviously be in the bucket of players who need to earn a spot and regular playing time. The Angels need to add RPs, so not sure there's a great trade to be had there. Adell's value is hard to ballpark because he was so highly touted and still pretty young, but he's now got some fairly well established strikeout issues. I think Crowe's stock dipped too much, and we also can't really afford to trade RPs, but maybe Crowe and a low level prospect allows for the flier to be taken. Adell's someone who needs to play, and it seems like he's now firmly in a backup OF and irregular DH role. The Angels have a lot of RH batters, so maybe a swap built around Mitchell might be feasible, but I'm not sure the teams match up well.

Finally, to ring the Drury bell one more time, I hadn't seen BC's comments about being open to adding someone from outside the org at 2B. I like Castro for the job, but again Drury is a great solution here. He gives you coverage at 1B, 2B, and DH, and there would still be plenty of ABs for someone like Castro and/or Bae.
 
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