OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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All this dunking on the previous regime while the current regime produces a .370 win% and a farm system in the 6-10 range in baseball.

It's getting late to keep doing this. We need an urgency to win now, not lol over what Kevin Kramer said or whatever to give BC more free tank years.
 
So the Texas Rangers just signed HOF manager Bruce Bochy.

And we're bringing back the exact coaching staff that has had back to back 100 loss seasons.

When you spend little on shit products, you get shit results.

The Pirates, are, the worst run org. in baseball, and certainly in the conversation for pro sports.
 
So the Texas Rangers just signed HOF manager Bruce Bochy.

And we're bringing back the exact coaching staff that has had back to back 100 loss seasons.

When you spend little on shit products, you get shit results.

The Pirates, are, the worst run org. in baseball, and certainly in the conversation for pro sports.

Do the Bucs underpay for their manager/coaching staff by league averages?
 


Good for us, I guess, though I expect the Cubs to possibly be in the mix for a big FA move this winter.

I am pretty pessimistic about free agency for us. For a lot of guys, it's nearly an impossible sell. Money talks, but unless you are a vet who is in the same boat as Quintana from last year, and need opportunity over anything else, you will get an equivalent offer elsewhere.

I am not totally opposed to the idea of being cautious, but the only way for this team to take a step forward is by shoring up a couple of spots with veteran players. Maybe with a ring and a market that might not be too great (because hardly anyone wants to pay a 1B), Mancini will be the upper realm of what's possible. My expectation is more that we will not be proactive and see who still needs a contract when the calendar turns to 2023 and closer to spring training. I think the most hopeful optimism is that an extension or two might get worked out.
 


Good for us, I guess, though I expect the Cubs to possibly be in the mix for a big FA move this winter.

I am pretty pessimistic about free agency for us. For a lot of guys, it's nearly an impossible sell. Money talks, but unless you are a vet who is in the same boat as Quintana from last year, and need opportunity over anything else, you will get an equivalent offer elsewhere.

I am not totally opposed to the idea of being cautious, but the only way for this team to take a step forward is by shoring up a couple of spots with veteran players. Maybe with a ring and a market that might not be too great (because hardly anyone wants to pay a 1B), Mancini will be the upper realm of what's possible. My expectation is more that we will not be proactive and see who still needs a contract when the calendar turns to 2023 and closer to spring training. I think the most hopeful optimism is that an extension or two might get worked out.


Yea. You’re just not going to sell free agents here. The league knows the owner is about collecting a check. They’re not going to sign a contract to play In an empty stadium, in an economically depressed city, and be managed by someone named Derek Shelton. Only way that changes is if we massively overpay but that’s never worth the risk since we really are a small market team.
 
Choi is a competent MLB player and on principle I am fine with this team trading prospects for competent MLB players. There is speculation that he'll benefit from the shift rules, too. Hartman was kind of an intriguing college pick, two-way player who was throwing 100mph on the mound, but also: whatever.

I hope it's the first domino to an aggressive offseason. Corner OF should be the priority in free agency. Even though an RH bat is needed pretty badly, I honestly wouldn't hate the risk of signing Conforto.
 
I like the addition of Choi. Legit MLB hitter that has been an above average hitter in every full season he has played in the MLB.

He's not anything incredibly amazing but he'll give you a solid 15-20 HRs and an above average OPS at 1st base. Hard to complain there.
 
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This better be a one year move getting Choi. One year with 19 hr, otherwise 11 is tops? Hopefully he can give us something so we can turn him into something at the TDL. Trading for an out of shape 32 yr old ( next May) doesn't seem like a move that will improve your club.
 
Choi only has one year of arbitration left, so it's definitely a stopgap type move. I think it would look even better if there's another shoe to drop, but Choi/Andujar as the 1B options are already a decent upgrade over all the negative value players we've run out at 1B recently. Best case is that he bounces back a bit and Andujar can be valuable off the bench, at DH, and in the corner OF at times -- but that's all contingent on a better bat coming in.

Still, it's a good sign that we moved quick for an improvement. There's talk that the Rays would have non-tendered him, but that's really more of a salary decision for a better team with better options that likes to churn constantly when they have the chance, and not much of a commentary on Choi. We could have been passive and scooped Choi up for less or nothing but salary, but he's enough of an upgrade for other teams that there's no sense waiting, and what I appreciate most about it is the active nature of it. No major improvement, but position-wise, it's multiple wins at a position we were terrible at and have no real internal options behind sort of Andujar.

Going forward, I think Mancini still checks the boxes of not too sought after, RH bat, and affordable, though I wonder a little bit if that would make Andujar a 40-man/depth casualty, and whether we want to do that or not. I think we're at least a little bit committed to seeing things through with him for a few months next year, and I'm not sure how much we want either a hypothetical Mancini or Andujar in a corner OF spot. Gaming it out way too far, I think there's also probably some consideration to make with the DH spot and Endy Rodriguez getting consistent ABs, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Haniger is the most obvious RH bat, and though he'd be a significant signing for us, I think he also fits into that sweet spot of mid-tier free agents who won't necessarily have a ton of better options if we are willing to pay the modest price. That's still a gigantic if that we have no means of confidently assuming, but I will say that my major assumption about the offseason was that we'd be stuck hearing Reynolds rumors while we wait to kick the tires on somebody like Jesus Aguilar in mid or late-January, all the while praying for a Cruz extension.

In the end, I think you could make a bit of a comparison between Vogelbach and Choi, with Choi actually being a good defensive 1B who won't give value back in the field.
 
Choi is basically filling in 1B/DH until Nunez is ready. As others have said, he's a capable 1B who doesn't completely suck.

Let's wait and see a few other shoes to drop before we start getting remotely excited about the potential spending this winter.
 
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Choi is basically filling in 1B/DH until Nunez is ready. As others have said, he's a capable 1B who doesn't completely suck.

Let's wait and see a few other shoes to drop before we start getting remotely excited about the potential spending this winter.
Hes literally this years Vogelbach but with a more consistent track record.

Which is fine, in and of itself.

Best case scenario is that he is an average 1b for a few months and is traded because a guy like Nunez etc is pushing for his spot.

Worst case is he hits an age drop-off and Tsutsugos around the roster all year.

Most likely hes a competent 1b all year. Nobody quite good enough to push him out of a job, but playing well enough not to actively want to go away.
 
Yeah, I guess the one worry with Choi is that he had a pretty bad cold spell at the plate last year, but it seems like the front office liked him enough to want to pounce now over seeing if he could be available for free, or taking the plunge on a rebound candidate who might produce the same for a little cheaper.

It's worth remembering how depressed the offensive environment was last year. His line is fine in a lot of ways, but nothing too impressive, and even with the cold streak, he managed a 115 wRC+.

The biggest question is still what comes next, but I think a cheaper/shorter-term solution for most of the 1B playing time is fine to make. Spending what little money we'll spend on someone like Bell would probably be too much of an investment. Drury might be an interesting exception, as someone who can spell Choi sometimes from the right side while also playing all over at a bunch of positions. There are likely doubters that he'll be able to replicate his 2022 or build on it, and that's worth being cautious about, but basically he, Mancini, and Haniger all provide the RH bat that the lineup sorely needs, and I don't think any of them are automatically out of range, provided of course that we're willing to spend modestly.

I think a veteran SP is still a big need, but right now I'd prefer to see more aggression for one more bat. Manaea seems like the consensus projection of "player who has been good and regressed/will be looking for a bounce back", and if we went that route, I'd want to have the option to at least have him around for a second year.
 
Yea. You’re just not going to sell free agents here. The league knows the owner is about collecting a check. They’re not going to sign a contract to play In an empty stadium, in an economically depressed city, and be managed by someone named Derek Shelton. Only way that changes is if we massively overpay but that’s never worth the risk since we really are a small market team.

Pgh is considered to be an "economically depressed city" these days? I haven't lived there since 1997 but it seems to have improved since then.
 
I like the idea of picking up Sean Manaea a lot. It seems like some people are pointing at his 2022 season and complaining at the possibility (since SI and a few others have guessed we might sign him), but 1) the Pirates will never be snooping around the top 15-20 free agents or so; 2) there is variance from year to year with players, especially pitchers; and 3) from a quick glance, it seems like Manaea had consistency issues at least in part due to mechanics, which has Marin's name all over it.

The one caveat for me is that I don't see too much of a point in short-term deals, because even the most aggressively optimistic view at 2023 probably sees us flirting with 2nd in the division for some time, but likely not close to the WC race. There's some extent to which our situation with FAs is that we just can't be so picky, but getting guys for one year to then flip them is really spinning our wheels. A move like Choi is one thing, but we should be trying to find solutions that can help fill holes in 2023 and still be part of a better team in 2024. Maybe that makes Quintana the optimal target still, even if there's age risk, but the problem with him might again be that he has offers from teams with significantly better playoff hopes.

I think the big challenge is figuring out solutions that aren't too risky but that also short circuit the market or go outside the box. The success that the 2013-2015 run was built on involved both good luck with trades and really targeted FA acquisitions that I don't think is all that possible anymore. Outside of a small handful of teams like the Rockies and Royals, most front offices run on the same basic premises, to such an extent that the similarities in strategy practically amount to a kind of collusion when it comes to some free agents.

To give an example, I was listening to a breakdown of 2B performance from last year, and the discussion turned to what to expect from Brandon Drury in 2023. They (Eno Sarris and Derek Van Riper) were guessing that multiple teams would end up spitting out a kind of prove it, 1 year, 8 million type contract -- the kind of contract that teams which actually spend money are willing to dish out to a part-time player who can help out in a number of different ways.

Drury turned 30 at the end of the season, and he obviously had a career year, but he cooled down the stretch some and was in a great hitter's park. That said, even if he regresses somewhat, he's the kind of hitter that could help lengthen the lineup here, adding power from the right side and being able to split some time with Choi, spell guys at 2B and 3B, and play in the corners and DH. Steamer still likes him for 1.6 WAR, which isn't much, but we're still in a situation where we can replace negative WAR players with above average, competent players, which is why Choi is such a big step up on paper.

MLB Trade Rumors projects him for a 2 year, 18 M salary, which is still easily affordable given our commitments. Interestingly, they didn't include Mancini in their top-50 players, and I think that signals that he also won't have too much of a market. Haniger comes out towards the upper end in terms of projections, as they have him at 3/39, which is still a contract that wouldn't be all that detrimental if the team is willing to actually and sustainably increase payroll.

In any case, none of this is worth getting too focused on at this point in the offseason, but an aggressive GM who has been green lit to spend 25 or 30M or so has some options in the mid-tier that could help boost this team pretty fast, if they are actually willing to play prospects earlier (Steamer is really optimistic about Endy). MLBTR is way more aggressive on Manaea, and pitching always tends to be where MLB teams throw money, so I think as far as I'm concerned, I'm most hopeful that we'll take an aggressive path to an RH bat before anything else, and we can always see how pitching has shaken out later in the offseason.
 
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Not sure if this says more about me or the minor league system, but I only just realized that the prospect we traded for Choi is Hartman and not Branigan, the ND two-way player we just picked last summer. That makes it more of a pure, free pickup that just costs money than I had initially thought.

With the 40-man and rule 5 deadline looming tomorrow, I think one of the interesting borderline cases is probably Blake Sabol. Hard to tell how much his 2021 season played him into a genuine prospect status, but he might end up as someone who gets protected. I don't think there's a huge risk in him being taken, but he's got a pretty good set of 500 ABs at AA or above, including a really strong final month or so of the season at AAA. He's another in that weird bucket of a catcher who is also a utility man, so I think in theory, another bad team might be able to take a flier on him and see what he can do in spring training and early in the season.

I haven't looked closely at the amount of players we need to trim (since obviously we'll protect Endy, Burrows, Nunez), but my guess is that Sabol may get first crack at breaking camp with the team as the 1B to Roberto Perez, assuming he returns. Mackey seems to think we'll keep him, though leave Triolo exposed, and I think leaving Triolo exposed might be a mistake. He's an easy solid bench player.
 


Selby makes sense as he has plus stuff and apparently put forth a very good showing in the AFL.

My read of the Rule 5 moves in general are that they are primarily positional and then secondarily based on experience. Teams basically take pitching and OFs with Rule 5 picks because those are the easiest kinds of players to stash on a roster. Utility infielder or utility player also makes some sense, and I think Triolo is probably more of a risk to be taken than a guy like Nunez or Sabol.

Ultimately, it's so rare that anyone gets taken and amounts to even replacement level, so I don't think it's worth getting up in arms about anything. Trading for Nunez and leaving him unprotected doesn't look good, but it's also pretty unlikely that some team wants to snipe a DH/1B from the Pirates who has not played above AA. The player who surprises me a little bit is Sabol, because he seems to have a power/OBP profile and at least in theory can be a backup catcher. Maybe he didn't have the best showing in the AFL. The optimistic read I'd put on it is that Endy will have a shot to make the team out of camp, but like with any other positive thing this offseason (extensions, mid-tier FAs), I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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This may be me reading too much into it, but I'm wondering if Endy being on the 40 man may indicate he'll get a chance in the MLB next year. They have like no catchers on the 40 man roster as far as I know, with Heineman DFA'd today and Delay DFA'd a few days ago.

Yeah looking at their 40 man roster, their only catchers are Rodriguez and Ali Sanchez, who only has 7 career MLB games. I imagine they sign someone else and go with that UFA and Sanchez as their catcher duo, but it's interesting to watch.
 
It certainly seems to point in that direction. We'll sign some veteran catcher, but it would be pretty strange to sign two. I think there's some shot he can earn a spot in spring training and then if they don't like what they see (or more cynically, are dead set on manipulating service time), the backup job can easily go to Delay or anybody else (they will have guys in ST on invites).

Starting the season with your best players is the absolute minimum you can do if you are making a stink about the urgency to make the MLB team better, so I really hope Rodriguez has a genuine chance to earn a spot. His 2022 season was more unequivocally positive than Cruz's 2021 season, and he didn't have an injury issue either. I will be more optimistic about the chances if we make some further additions, but we'll see.

I've probably said my piece on this too many times, but with players who have the chance to step in and truly contribute immediately, I think there's less and less gained by dragging your feet. You have to really commit to the full Super Two deadline, and at that point what you are doing is muddling an important development year for the sake of saving money and acquiring a year that's not really in the player's prime which you might not actually use anyways.

The player has to truly earn a job, but if we're talking about gaining a 7th year vs. starting on Opening Day, it's not really a clear cut decision anymore. If the player is good enough to be a real contributor, then there's a great shot they'll undo the decision anyways and earn the full year by being in the ROY mix (such as Rutschman this year). If you start someone on Opening Day and they struggle, then it's pretty straightforward to just send them down for a few weeks weeks so that you gain the 7th year anyways. I don't see it as too complicated unless the team is absolutely dead set on waiting until July and Super Two to pass. Otherwise, the relevant question should be if the player earns a spot or not.
 
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