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OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

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Easy prospect purchase if we're willing to eat what he's owed this year and not retain him next year. I'd gladly take the flier on Ryan Weathers for this.

Total blah, and if Newman ends up being moved, we will get to see both Yoshi and JVM face off against Corbin Burnes tonight.
 
MrBrightside said:
This team is on pace to win 63 games this year, is not going to spend money this offseason, and you think they can compete for a Wild Card next year with the internal options it has? God bless you.

So who gets to start on Thursday? Anyone? Anyone?
Click to expand...

Turn arounds like these can happen quickly, and you just have to be a .500ish team to be in contention for a wild card these days. Youthful momentum is a real thing.

So yeah, if they add, and some of the prospects work out we can be a .500 team next year. That's a stretch for many of course, and I'm ok with that.

My vision is different than yours. That's another reason why I'm fine with everything that's going on this year with the big Club. This was always going to be the last year of the tear-down, so I don't care about the losses. I only care about player development.

And since I appear to be one of the only people on here the understands that development is non-linear, I don't want to hear it about how are Minor Leagues suck because they don't. Some guys are having rough spells. Some of that will continue, and some of it won't.
 
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Gallatin said:
Turn arounds like these can happen quickly, and you just have to be a .500ish team to be in contention for a wild card these days. Youthful momentum is a real thing.

So yeah, if they add, and some of the prospects work out we can be a .500 team next year. That's a stretch for many of course, and I'm ok with that.

My vision is different than yours. That's another reason why I'm fine with everything that's going on this year with the big Club. This was always going to be the last year of the tear-down, so I don't care about the losses. I only care about player development.
Click to expand...
And I agree that player development is the key. Absolutely. But what are you seeing in that regard that suggests a 20-25-win jump next year?
 
Gallatin said:
I only care about player development.
Click to expand...

Kay cool. Every hitting prospect has been between "below replacement level" and "passable" at the Big League level.

Seems like you're actually willing to ask for improvement now. Keep that same energy this offseason and the rest of this year. The goalpost-moving ends now.
 
MrBrightside said:
And I agree that player development is the key. Absolutely. But what are you seeing in that regard that suggests a 20-25-win jump next year?
Click to expand...
Let's start with Oneil Cruz being 25% better than during his 1st 6 weeks in the show? I mean, look at the advanced stats, look at how he impacts the game beyond struggling to hit like most big-time prospects do during their rookie months.

Jack Suwinski will make changes, adapt, and become a better player and a valuable regular in 23. I believe in the tools, I believe in the player. I also believe he's still evolving, and that will continue for this particular guy.

Hays wil improve, and is already the best player in the game defensively by some advanced stats. Not @ 3B, but In The Game.

We've got so many legit middle-infielder prospects on the cusp that one of them will make it in 23 @ 2nd Base.

1B needs a prospect to leap forward (Nunez, Gorski, Davis, Shackleford) or a decent FA. Both could even happen.

C is becoming a position I'm leaning towards trading for. I'm not sold on Davis behind the plate, and I know for pretty much a fact that Endy doesn't want to be an every day Catcher. At least, last year he didn't.

At the other Corner Outfield, I have a hard time believing that one of Gorski, Mitchell, Swaggerty, Fraizer, Scott, Madris, & CSN doesn't figure things out and provide some value. It won't be a black hole.

I'm already notoriously the Mitch Keller Fan Club President on here. And let me tell you guys right now, you ain't seen nothing yet from him. The dude is just figuring things out finally. He'll be a different person & player next year.

Hey you have to admit Contreras is a pretty good option as a 2 or 3 next year.

I think Brubaker is a legit 4-5.

I think we bring in a Pitcher like Anderson or Q again, and maybe even something better or more.

I've also never fallen off the Quinn Priester bandwagon. I believe in the man, and the tools. He's probably a 2-3 type I expect to be joining the Club before July.

Thompson is another 4-5 type.

Burrows should be ready at some point next year as well, another 3-5 type guy.

Jones in A+ has serious tools, and could get a promotion and blow through AA. Then again, he could not.

And I think we've had an extended discussion lately about how we look to have a legit Bullpen next season? What we got now is tantalizing, and we got several guys in AA & AAA pushing towards the Pen.
 
I think young teams can take big steps forward and that there's good potential for impact offensive talent (Cruz) combined with continued growth out of starters (Keller, Brubaker) along with starter upside on the way (Conteras, further away Burrows and most importantly IMO, Priester). There have been a lot of close games, and better depth helps you navigate away from the enormous, multi-week slides that we've now seen.

But the flip side is also what's going on in the division. The Cubs are improving, likely can be players for a big FA talent like Correa this winter, and may add some more prospects for Conteras and Happ within the next few hours. The Reds added a major haul of talent to an already fairly decent system. We are in all likelihood the worst out of these three teams already and seem to be stuck in neutral.

I'm harping on it, but step 0 is still what we are going to do with Reynolds. Keeping Reynolds means not fully completing the tear down, but we've done less than nothing to build around him, much less secure him for the long-term. Doing the latter is the bare minimum, and otherwise he should have already been traded. Cherington's timing with big deals has generally been very poor, and the 2023 season now seems like it's in the vague limbo that the 2022 season was last year.

Patience is definitely necessary for a rebuild, but we need a clearer plan and more than anything else maybe, some clearer communication from the front office. The Brewers run laps around us in this department while still making cost conscious decisions and never totally punting on payroll or contending. The last real indication we heard from Cherington is that he wanted to be patient in assessing talent and this PR-speak about always building. Well, it's time for something more.
 
I let one of yinz influence me against dropping this player off my prospects list a few months back. Well I ain't going to stand for it no more. He's not a prospect. He'll have to earn being one again in the Minors, and I'm seriously doubting it goes anywhere with Mason Martin.

He's in one of the worst streaks, has huge holes in the swing, and has K'd 32 times in his last 20 games.

piratesprospects.com

Prospect Roundtable: Which Players Might Repeat a Level Next Year? - Pirates Prospects

At the start of each month, we run a series of Prospect Roundtable articles looking at players who are surging up and surging down. There is one month remaining for the full system, and rather than looking at the season totals, we're looking this month at the second half starts. Some players...
piratesprospects.com piratesprospects.com
 
Gallatin said:
Let's start with Oneil Cruz being 25% better than during his 1st 6 weeks in the show? I mean, look at the advanced stats, look at how he impacts the game beyond struggling to hit like most big-time prospects do during their rookie months.

Jack Suwinski will make changes, adapt, and become a better player and a valuable regular in 23. I believe in the tools, I believe in the player. I also believe he's still evolving, and that will continue for this particular guy.

Hays wil improve, and is already the best player in the game defensively by some advanced stats. Not @ 3B, but In The Game.

We've got so many legit middle-infielder prospects on the cusp that one of them will make it in 23 @ 2nd Base.

1B needs a prospect to leap forward (Nunez, Gorski, Davis, Shackleford) or a decent FA. Both could even happen.

C is becoming a position I'm leaning towards trading for. I'm not sold on Davis behind the plate, and I know for pretty much a fact that Endy doesn't want to be an every day Catcher. At least, last year he didn't.

At the other Corner Outfield, I have a hard time believing that one of Gorski, Mitchell, Swaggerty, Fraizer, Scott, Madris, & CSN doesn't figure things out and provide some value. It won't be a black hole.

I'm already notoriously the Mitch Keller Fan Club President on here. And let me tell you guys right now, you ain't seen nothing yet from him. The dude is just figuring things out finally. He'll be a different person & player next year.

Hey you have to admit Contreras is a pretty good option as a 2 or 3 next year.

I think Brubaker is a legit 4-5.

I think we bring in a Pitcher like Anderson or Q again, and maybe even something better or more.

I've also never fallen off the Quinn Priester bandwagon. I believe in the man, and the tools. He's probably a 2-3 type I expect to be joining the Club before July.

Thompson is another 4-5 type.

Burrows should be ready at some point next year as well, another 3-5 type guy.

Jones in A+ has serious tools, and could get a promotion and blow through AA. Then again, he could not.

And I think we've had an extended discussion lately about how we look to have a legit Bullpen next season? What we got now is tantalizing, and we got several guys in AA & AAA pushing towards the Pen.
Click to expand...
So basically if every young player that has or hasn't progressed in 2022 takes a big step forward in 2023, and presuming every other team's young players don't make similar uniform improvements, we'll win 25 more games next year. Well, I did ask. I do think it's a bit suspect to point to Cruz's improvement as a sign he will continue to improve while simultaneously ignoring the regression of Hayes and Suwinski, but I assume this is just a best case scenario anyway.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:
I think young teams can take big steps forward and that there's good potential for impact offensive talent (Cruz) combined with continued growth out of starters (Keller, Brubaker) along with starter upside on the way (Conteras, further away Burrows and most importantly IMO, Priester). There have been a lot of close games, and better depth helps you navigate away from the enormous, multi-week slides that we've now seen.

But the flip side is also what's going on in the division. The Cubs are improving, likely can be players for a big FA talent like Correa this winter, and may add some more prospects for Conteras and Happ within the next few hours. The Reds added a major haul of talent to an already fairly decent system. We are in all likelihood the worst out of these three teams already and seem to be stuck in neutral.

I'm harping on it, but step 0 is still what we are going to do with Reynolds. Keeping Reynolds means not fully completing the tear down, but we've done less than nothing to build around him, much less secure him for the long-term. Doing the latter is the bare minimum, and otherwise he should have already been traded. Cherington's timing with big deals has generally been very poor, and the 2023 season now seems like it's in the vague limbo that the 2022 season was last year.

Patience is definitely necessary for a rebuild, but we need a clearer plan and more than anything else maybe, some clearer communication from the front office. The Brewers run laps around us in this department while still making cost conscious decisions and never totally punting on payroll or contending. The last real indication we heard from Cherington is that he wanted to be patient in assessing talent and this PR-speak about always building. Well, it's time for something more.
Click to expand...

I don't know man I see a pretty clear plan. I'm not obsessing over it though, the results of the next 2 years will speak for themselves.

MrBrightside said:
So basically if every young player that has or hasn't progressed in 2022 takes a big step forward in 2023, and presuming every other team's young players don't make similar uniform improvements, we'll win 25 more games next year. Well, I did ask.
Click to expand...
Wow you're framing is quite political in style. Confrontational, derisive, putting words in my mouth, making straw arguments.

I am no longer going to respond to you. Have the last words.
 
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I’m not sure what was political about my post and I’m similarly uncertain what the strawman argument is but ok. You don’t need to ignore me. You and Costanza can have your board and treat it as the Teen Beat for the Pirates scene. I’m sure you’ll be right at some point. Take care
 
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MrBrightside said:
I’m not sure what was political about my post and I’m similarly uncertain what the strawman argument is but ok. You don’t need to ignore me. You and Costanza can have your board and treat it as the Teen Beat for the Pirates scene. I’m sure you’ll be right at some point. Take care
Click to expand...
Oh looks like I lied. You're basic nature of communication lately. It's quite reminiscent of how people in America talk at each other in politics. I chose withdraw myself from that craziness, so you really hit a nerve with me and probably some others.
 
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DJ Spinoza said:


Easy prospect purchase if we're willing to eat what he's owed this year and not retain him next year. I'd gladly take the flier on Ryan Weathers for this.

Total blah, and if Newman ends up being moved, we will get to see both Yoshi and JVM face off against Corbin Burnes tonight.
Click to expand...

With the logjam of talent in right field Myers wouldn’t have made any sense for us.
 
Constant doom and gloom is just not appealing. This team is by no means a lock to be some mega contender in a few years, but it does posses one of the deepest talent pools in the majors.

There is very clearly a pivot to the now happening.

I choose to believe we're a better coaching staff and 1 more year away from pushing 85 wins.

Talent exists. Everywhere.

I'm going to be positive until the same rope is afforded Cherington that his predecessor got, which was 6 years to put a winning record on the diamond.
 
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ImporterExporter said:
Constant doom and gloom is just not appealing. This team is by no means a lock to be some mega contender in a few years, but it does posses one of the deepest talent pools in the majors.

There is very clearly a pivot to the now happening.

I choose to believe we're a better coaching staff and 1 more year away from pushing 85 wins.

Talent exists. Everywhere.

I'm going to be positive until the same rope is afforded Cherington that his predecessor got, which was 6 years to put a winning record on the diamond.
Click to expand...
Well said. What do you think Kramer would say right here, I'm at a loss...
 
The thing I hate about the TDL is we'll never know who they shopped. I thought for sure there'd be more activity
 
sovietsanta87 said:
With the logjam of talent in right field Myers wouldn’t have made any sense for us.
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It would never happen because of how much he's owed, but he can play 1B and in any case can bought out next year. It would sheerly be $$ for prospect/MLB supplementary talent.

Sounds like the Padres paid down Hosmer's entire contract basically, but we were never going to be involved in those kinds of deals.
 
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