OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Congrats to the Houston Cheaters on their win

[ChaosAgent]

Yes he could lose money Just to make Debbie Downers feel good

What's with the Wolf? I dig it.

 

[Josey Wales]

What's with the Wolf? I dig it.

Just love Wolves always have

 

[dogthateats]

I’m a casual MLB viewer, but I place a lower value on prospects after being disappointed too many times from the Pirates and Pens’ systems. I feel like there have been so many trades over the years that have included highly regarded prospects, but only the established player really made the memorable impact.

 

[Gallatin]

I’m a casual MLB viewer, but I place a lower value on prospects after being disappointed too many times from the Pirates and Pens’ systems. I feel like there have been so many trades over the years that have included highly regarded prospects, but only the established player really made the memorable impact.

Cutch for Reynolds good enough for you? How bout Taillon for Contrares? Suwinski & Marcano for a past his prime Frazier? Or let's go back - Lefty reliever Ricardo Rincon for OF Brian Giles? That ring a bell? Pena for Van Slyke anyone?

 

[TimmyD]

Yes he could lose money Just to make Debbie Downers feel good

Putting a better product on the field would attract more interest which would then lead to more revenue. If the Pirates payroll were $110 million Bob Nutting would still be doing just fine

 

[dogthateats]

Cutch for Reynolds good enough for you? How bout Taillon for Contrares? Suwinski & Marcano for a past his prime Frazier? Or let's go back - Lefty reliever Ricardo Rincon for OF Brian Giles? That ring a bell? Pena for Van Slyke anyone?

I stand corrected. This guy named 5 Pirates trades over a 35 year period that refuted my personal sentiments.

 

[Josey Wales]

Putting a better product on the field would attract more interest which would then lead to more revenue. If the Pirates payroll were $110 million Bob Nutting would still be doing just fine

well then Buy them & do it

 

[DJ Spinoza]

No surprise here, but honestly, setting aside whatever bullshit deals BC might be working on, it's going to be incredibly annoying if Marcano is not in the starting lineup tonight.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

Hosmer to the Red Sox, and if I had to guess, they might pay more of his contract to get a prospect.

Wonder if we might end up with Bobby "Michael Chavis 2, Electric Boogaloo" Dalbec?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Hosmer to the Red Sox, and if I had to guess, they might pay more of his contract to get a prospect.

Wonder if we might end up with Bobby "Michael Chavis 2, Electric Boogaloo" Dalbec?

Dalbec is my 1st basemen on mlb 23 lol if bc can just get Gabby tores to play 2nd we are rocking the same line up.
I don’t understand Boston they aren’t trading bogarts or Devers. Devers will want the Riley deal and bogarts wants seagar money

 

[ImporterExporter]

I think holding onto Reynolds and Bednar is yet another sign that Cherington is going to view 2023 as the first push towards a winning ball club.

We've seen the recent trades focusing on developed players who are further along.

We've seen Hayes extended.

You want a plan? It's literally playing out as it was always going to. Yes, we'll need a bit of outside help to boost a few positions but there is a pretty clear direction we've been going w/these latest deals.

2020-2022 were going to suck, massively. Burn it down, acquire talent, draft near the top and hit on those picks. 2023 was the jump off point. 2024 you get into a WC. 2025 you're pushing for the division.

Next year, without projecting any FA signings you realistically can have a line up:

C - ?
1B - ?
2B - Marcano
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz
LF - Suwinski
CF - Reynolds
RF - Mitchell

C is wide open unless we sign somebody. Maybe Perez is healthy and comes back. He looked quite good in the early going. 1B is probably Chavis vs lefties and then you need a platoon partner vs RHP.

Obviously guys like Bae should/will get a look. Maybe Madris can get a crack at being Chavis' partner. I'm sure folks like Swaggerty will get a look. But 1B seems like a spot we may look for an upgrade, especially vs RHP.

The rotation should be in better shape, assuming we can find another Quintana like mid-rotation arm, which I think will be a primary target in the winter. Hopefully Q is a possibility. I think he'd slide very nicely into a 3 role.

How I see the rotation out of spring 2023:

1. Contreras
2. Keller (maybe you flip those 2 based on experience but give the guy with the most electric stuff the opening day)
3. FA veteran signing (Q coming back would be sweet)
4. Brukbaker
5. Thompson (I see this spot as being Burrows by June, providing he does what he needs to, and then hopefully Priester later in the summer)

The bullpen:

1. Bednar
2. Santos
3. Holderman
4. Oviedo
5. Crowe
6. Beede
7. Somebody in AAA like Toribio or Samaniego who's in AA now but absolutely killing it.

Then you obviously have the return of Davis, Gonzales to look forward to. This new kid Nunez we just got, should be in AAA pretty early on if he does well enough. Maybe Gorski will continue to impress. If Peguero remains, hopefully a rebound year. Endy Rodriguez will be debuting in AA and on track for a 2024 early arrival.

Basically 2024 summer could look like the following (not counting any outside additions)

C - Davis
1B - Endy Rodriguez/Nunez
2B - Gonzales/Marcano/Bae
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz/Peguero
LF - Suwinski/Bae
CF - Reynolds/Swaggerty type
RF - Mitchell

1. Contreras
2. Priester
3. Keller
4. Burrows
5. veteran or someone in our system now but guys like Jones, Solometo, Chandler, Chen, should all be in AA at least, possibly Indy and on paper represent varying degrees of starter.

Going to come down to development and getting rid of the shit coaching staff we have in place right now.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I’m a casual MLB viewer, but I place a lower value on prospects after being disappointed too many times from the Pirates and Pens’ systems. I feel like there have been so many trades over the years that have included highly regarded prospects, but only the established player really made the memorable impact.

I place a lower value on this admin's hitting prospects until they can prove they can develop hitters worth anything.

But like, still gotta fill the pipeline.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I think holding onto Reynolds and Bednar is yet another sign that Cherington is going to view 2023 as the first push towards a winning ball club.

We've seen the recent trades focusing on developed players who are further along.

We've seen Hayes extended.

You want a plan? It's literally playing out as it was always going to. Yes, we'll need a bit of outside help to boost a few positions but there is a pretty clear direction we've been going w/these latest deals.

2020-2022 were going to suck, massively. Burn it down, acquire talent, draft near the top and hit on those picks. 2023 was the jump off point. 2024 you get into a WC. 2025 you're pushing for the division.

Next year, without projecting any FA signings you realistically can have a line up:

C - ?
1B - ?
2B - Marcano
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz
LF - Suwinski
CF - Reynolds
RF - Mitchell

C is wide open unless we sign somebody. Maybe Perez is healthy and comes back. He looked quite good in the early going. 1B is probably Chavis vs lefties and then you need a platoon partner vs RHP.

Obviously guys like Bae should/will get a look. Maybe Madris can get a crack at being Chavis' partner. I'm sure folks like Swaggerty will get a look. But 1B seems like a spot we may look for an upgrade, especially vs RHP.

The rotation should be in better shape, assuming we can find another Quintana like mid-rotation arm, which I think will be a primary target in the winter. Hopefully Q is a possibility. I think he'd slide very nicely into a 3 role.

How I see the rotation out of spring 2023:

1. Contreras
2. Keller (maybe you flip those 2 based on experience but give the guy with the most electric stuff the opening day)
3. FA veteran signing (Q coming back would be sweet)
4. Brukbaker
5. Thompson (I see this spot as being Burrows by June, providing he does what he needs to, and then hopefully Priester later in the summer)

The bullpen:

1. Bednar
2. Santos
3. Holderman
4. Oviedo
5. Crowe
6. Beede
7. Somebody in AAA like Toribio or Samaniego who's in AA now but absolutely killing it.

Then you obviously have the return of Davis, Gonzales to look forward to. This new kid Nunez we just got, should be in AAA pretty early on if he does well enough. Maybe Gorski will continue to impress. If Peguero remains, hopefully a rebound year. Endy Rodriguez will be debuting in AA and on track for a 2024 early arrival.

Basically 2024 summer could look like the following (not counting any outside additions)

C - Davis
1B - Endy Rodriguez/Nunez
2B - Gonzales/Marcano/Bae
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz/Peguero
LF - Suwinski/Bae
CF - Reynolds/Swaggerty type
RF - Mitchell

1. Contreras
2. Priester
3. Keller
4. Burrows
5. veteran or someone in our system now but guys like Jones, Solometo, Chandler, Chen, should all be in AA at least, possibly Indy and on paper represent varying degrees of starter.

Going to come down to development and getting rid of the shit coaching staff we have in place right now.

that 2023 lineup still hurts my peepee. We need a legit veteran bat in there somewhere.

I agree on firing the coaching staff although the pitching coach has made strides.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I mean, why is it catastrophic?

They'll have Tatis, Machado and Soto as their offensive centerpieces for years. Yes they'll be paying them $100M combined but I'd take the three of them and pre-arb fodder over 80% of lineups out there. Certainly ours.

Because I’m not sure how much money that franchise brings in to where they can afford to have those players in the long term.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I will be surprised if the coaching staff is fired. Shelton seems to be in lockstep in terms of decision-making and overall strategy, and I think Cherington has some input on the lineups and everyday stuff that's being done. I hope I'm wrong, because I agree with the consensus about the coaching, and I could still see it being the case that the coaching staff is cleared out, but I don't expect big changes like that just yet.

I think we're on the verge of a more full-throated youth movement and otherwise it's all TBD, centered around whether or not we'll make a long-term commitment to Reynolds and maybe a guy like Keller, or, as foolish as people will undoubtedly say it is to do with a reliever, Bednar. (My .02 is that a hometown discount that pays his arbitration years and buys 2 more likely won't be that bad, and might be a fine slight risk to secure some stability, but I'd be surprised, as it's just now shrewd business).

Seems like a real nothingburger is on the horizon, and it's gonna be really annoying to see Yoshi and VanMeter still out there this week. I still expect at least one deal to sneak over before the deadline passes, but it won't be for much.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm disappointed the Pirates haven't sold off more pieces yet, I hope they make another trade or two.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Putting a better product on the field would attract more interest which would then lead to more revenue. If the Pirates payroll were $110 million Bob Nutting would still be doing just fine

And here’s the math to back that up

"It’s Not My Money(ball)!" Part 3: The art of the financial tank

Or "Fun with charts" or "Debunking a lie about team payrolls." A multi-part examination on financial issues in Major League Baseball. This essay argues why the Owners’ embrace of financial shenanigans with the Competitive Balance Tax, has led, in part, to the current labor stoppage.

www.truebluela.com

 

[Gallatin]

I think holding onto Reynolds and Bednar is yet another sign that Cherington is going to view 2023 as the first push towards a winning ball club.

We've seen the recent trades focusing on developed players who are further along.

We've seen Hayes extended.

You want a plan? It's literally playing out as it was always going to. Yes, we'll need a bit of outside help to boost a few positions but there is a pretty clear direction we've been going w/these latest deals.

2020-2022 were going to suck, massively. Burn it down, acquire talent, draft near the top and hit on those picks. 2023 was the jump off point. 2024 you get into a WC. 2025 you're pushing for the division.

Next year, without projecting any FA signings you realistically can have a line up:

C - ?
1B - ?
2B - Marcano
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz
LF - Suwinski
CF - Reynolds
RF - Mitchell

C is wide open unless we sign somebody. Maybe Perez is healthy and comes back. He looked quite good in the early going. 1B is probably Chavis vs lefties and then you need a platoon partner vs RHP.

Obviously guys like Bae should/will get a look. Maybe Madris can get a crack at being Chavis' partner. I'm sure folks like Swaggerty will get a look. But 1B seems like a spot we may look for an upgrade, especially vs RHP.

The rotation should be in better shape, assuming we can find another Quintana like mid-rotation arm, which I think will be a primary target in the winter. Hopefully Q is a possibility. I think he'd slide very nicely into a 3 role.

How I see the rotation out of spring 2023:

1. Contreras
2. Keller (maybe you flip those 2 based on experience but give the guy with the most electric stuff the opening day)
3. FA veteran signing (Q coming back would be sweet)
4. Brukbaker
5. Thompson (I see this spot as being Burrows by June, providing he does what he needs to, and then hopefully Priester later in the summer)

The bullpen:

1. Bednar
2. Santos
3. Holderman
4. Oviedo
5. Crowe
6. Beede
7. Somebody in AAA like Toribio or Samaniego who's in AA now but absolutely killing it.

Then you obviously have the return of Davis, Gonzales to look forward to. This new kid Nunez we just got, should be in AAA pretty early on if he does well enough. Maybe Gorski will continue to impress. If Peguero remains, hopefully a rebound year. Endy Rodriguez will be debuting in AA and on track for a 2024 early arrival.

Basically 2024 summer could look like the following (not counting any outside additions)

C - Davis
1B - Endy Rodriguez/Nunez
2B - Gonzales/Marcano/Bae
3B - Hayes
SS - Cruz/Peguero
LF - Suwinski/Bae
CF - Reynolds/Swaggerty type
RF - Mitchell

1. Contreras
2. Priester
3. Keller
4. Burrows
5. veteran or someone in our system now but guys like Jones, Solometo, Chandler, Chen, should all be in AA at least, possibly Indy and on paper represent varying degrees of starter.

Going to come down to development and getting rid of the shit coaching staff we have in place right now.

Yeah this is just like we discussed it a couple years back. I'm still holding onto that there's a chance to compete for a Wildcard next year because of those conversations, and the way it's looking like BC will have a bunch of guys ready over the next 12 months. If Cherington can get another hitter at 1b or C, along with Q or a Pitcher like him and a legit Lefty bullpen arm...

But your more realistic story is probably likely to come out true. It's unlikely Nutting would spend the money before the success starts IMO, although that could be something BC lobbied for in his contract negotiations.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I wouldn't be shocked if Oviedo is going to Indy in order to stretch back out as a starter. We need the innings/depth and there are some people who think he can still put it together in that role. To be honest, I'm not sure I dislike this idea, at least for the remainder of this season. His stuff does profile to maybe be backend of the bullpen, but some of the reports and his pitch mix indicate that he could still start, so I think given the depth, it makes sense to explore that a little bit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Surprised Oviedo went to AAA. My guess is that he'll be introduced to the organization over a few weeks in AAA and then he'll come up after. I don't know who will be taking Quintana's spot in the rotation, though.

 

[MrBrightside]

Yeah this is just like we discussed it a couple years back. I'm still holding onto that there's a chance to compete for a Wildcard next year because of those conversations, and the way it's looking like BC will have a bunch of guys ready over the next 12 months. If Cherington can get another hitter at 1b or C, along with Q or a Pitcher like him and a legit Lefty bullpen arm...

But your more realistic story is probably likely to come out true. It's unlikely Nutting would spend the money before the success starts IMO, although that could be something BC lobbied for in his contract negotiations.

This team is on pace to win 63 games this year, is not going to spend money this offseason, and you think they can compete for a Wild Card next year with the internal options it has? God bless you.

So who gets to start on Thursday? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'd wager with the deadline being so late in the day, you'll see Marcano back tomorrow. No idea how trades will shake out so that's the delay.

Oviedo would seem like Underwood's replacement and possible spot starter as DJ mentiond to eat innings down the stretch.

 

[ImporterExporter]

that 2023 lineup still hurts my peepee. We need a legit veteran bat in there somewhere.

I agree on firing the coaching staff although the pitching coach has made strides.

Reynolds is a legit, veteran bat. BUT, I do agree, adding another one with a track record (not talking about anything super shiny mind you) would be a very welcomed addition.

But again, even entertaining the idea that we could spend 10-12-15 million per year on a single player should be immediately cast from immagination. MAYBE Nutting goes there in a few years when the premium talent has consolidated at the ML level, but for now, it's likely going to be more Quintana/Vogel type additions. That's my expectation. So if it's more in 2023, happy times. If not, oh well, didn't expect much to begin with.

That 2023 lineup is projection. It could be almost as bad as what we saw in July if most/all don't take a step forward. No doubt it could go a few directions.

However, Suwinski clearly has big league pop. Even if you let him hit .200 and strike out 200 times over 150 games, he'd hit 30+ home runs, based on what we've seen this year. If you can just get him to that .230-.240, level, where the K rate is down to 30 or better yet, slightly under, with a few more walks, and he's an easy regular.

Mitchell has looked much more dialed in since coming back, his swing is very pretty, and has a shot to be a #3 OF.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Reynolds is a legit, veteran bat. BUT, I do agree, adding another one with a track record (not talking about anything super shiny mind you) would be a very welcomed addition.

But again, even entertaining the idea that we could spend 10-12-15 million per year on a single player should be immediately cast from immagination. MAYBE Nutting goes there in a few years when the premium talent has consolidated at the ML level, but for now, it's likely going to be more Quintana/Vogel type additions. That's my expectation. So if it's more in 2023, happy times. If not, oh well, didn't expect much to begin with.

That 2023 lineup is projection. It could be almost as bad as what we saw in July if most/all don't take a step forward. No doubt it could go a few directions.

However, Suwinski clearly has big league pop. Even if you let him hit .200 and strike out 200 times over 150 games, he'd hit 30+ home runs, based on what we've seen this year. If you can just get him to that .230-.240, level, where the K rate is down to 30 or better yet, slightly under, with a few more walks, and he's an easy regular.

Mitchell has looked much more dialed in since coming back, his swing is very pretty, and has a shot to be a #3 OF.

I read something where Mitchell changed his swing so he could catch up to MLB heat.

Looks like its working

 

[Factorial]

I just look forward to Costanza and his crew lavishing praise on the trade no matter what the return.

Your handle here is a real misnomer.