Post-Game Talk: PS #5 - 09/26/18 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[PuckLuck3043]

Their rebuild is several years in the works, but they were never awful and never traded Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier etc.

Sure they lucked out picking #2 when they barely missed the playoffs. That's unlikely to happen to us. You know what is likely to happen to us. We pick somewhere in the top 5 and the lottery forces us down. There's a 60% chance or better of that happening.

We'll see how much "complaining" is going on if we have the worst record and pick 4th.

You just don't know what is going to happen and how things are going to play out this years and the next few years so stop pretending that you do.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You just don't know what is going to happen and how things are going to play out this year and the next few years so stop pretending that you do.

 

[Machinehead]

You just don't know what is going to happen and how things are going to play out this years and the next few years so stop pretending that you do.

As if the Rangers have any idea what they're doing the next few years. I still don't see the plan.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Again, I was extremely consistent on keeping McDonagh, despite his flaws as a player.

Brady Skjei isn't even worth *****ing about.

Doesn't matter what you were consistent about. The point is you find every opportunity to bitch. It's exhausting and makes reading this board toxic.

 

[sabremike]

Pulock's shot produces its own shot.

The amazing thing about Pulock is that Lou isn't sending him to Bridgeport to make room for another embarrassingly awful vet who is basically Ebola on skates.

 

[Tob]

We have 1 line of legit nhl scoring talent. The rest are question marks or bodies. Nothing wrong with those in small doses but a whole team of that is no bueno

Definitely. 1 line with all the tools and skills plus chemistry. The rest are complimentary players that would be 60 point players playing with Malkin and Crosby but together here, it'll be hard to find goals.

 

[Machinehead]

Doesn't matter what you were consistent about. The point is you find every opportunity to *****. It's exhausting and makes reading this board toxic.

Somebody has to f***ing do it. Most of the board wets itself with excitement over everything the team does.

Especially this. This sucks. There is nothing good about this team's current situation.

 

[Matt4776]

Wow, decent returns in a trade! There's something to try.

Voracek was a 40 point player. And a first round pick. Richards went for a 2nd and a 30 point player.

McDonagh went for..?

 

[Ori]

Well, I really like Quinn so far.

I'll give him a mulligan on the OT and just assume he doesn't do that in the regular season. (It was stupid anyway)

Yes I was concerned too, but he is a new NHL coach, and since it`s pre season why not try out our new drafted players in Lias & Chytil. I just dislike losing vs Islanders if it was another NHL team this evening, fine, it was an experiment that did not work out. I saw A. Matthews from Leafs had similar mistakes 3 v 3 about a season ago. It`s normal with players who are not that experience in NHL.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

As if the Rangers have any idea what they're doing the next few years. I still don't see the plan.

They should follow the Flyers' plan of lucking into a #2 pick that they had a 2.4% chance of getting. You haven't addressed the fact that you praised the Flyers for getting one of the most unlikely draft spots in recent memory. Do you realize how utterly irrational it is to praise them for finding their #1 center? You're too smart not to realize that so you must think everyone else is too stupid to realize it.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes I was concerned too, but he is a new NHL coach, and since it`s pre season why not try out our new drafted players in Lias & Chytil. I just dislike losing vs Islanders if it was another NHL team this evening, fine, it was an experiment that did not work out. I saw Matthews from Leafs had similar mistakes 3 v 3 about a season ago. It`s normal with players who are not that experience in NHL.

You can easily be embarrassed 3v3. I don't think you send teenagers out in a situation where they can be embarrassed, at least not without a veteran. It shouldn't have been both of them.

But like I said, I let that one slide. He's been good.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Somebody has to ****ing do it. Most of the board wets itself with excitement over everything the team does.

Especially this. This sucks. There is nothing good about this team's current situation.

No someone doesn't have to hijack every thread with how horrible the team is.

 

[Machinehead]

They should follow the Flyers' plan of lucking into a #2 pick that they had a 2.4% chance of getting. You haven't addressed the fact that you praised the Flyers for getting one of the most unlikely draft spots in recent memory. Do you realize how utterly irrational it is to praise them for finding their #1 center? You're too smart not to realize that so you must think everyone else is too stupid to realize it.

You're fixated on one player. They didn't build the best pipeline in the league (at one time) on Patrick. They built it on great drafting, which Gorton has not come close to so far.

 

[Machinehead]

No someone doesn't have to hijack every thread with how horrible the team is.

So we'll just watch them be horrible and nobody will say it? That's not very fair.

 

[Tob]

Somebody has to ****ing do it. Most of the board wets itself with excitement over everything the team does.

Especially this. This sucks. There is nothing good about this team's current situation.

Hyperbole in every sentence. There are lots of complainers on this board. There are lots of mixed reactions to everything.

 

[Machinehead]

Ironically, when this team was contending, dissenting opinions were way more accepted.

Now that the team is rebuilding, you're crucified for any opinion that isn't gumdrops and unicorns.

Goes back to the age-old HF mentality that sucking is amazing and prospects > actually being good.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Very few of them, because this type of rebuild rarely works.

I'm not necessarily against rebuilding, but there's ways to do it and there's ways not to do it.

As I understand it, you suck in the short-term to be better in the long-term. Would you call this team well planned out over the long-term? Would you call our prospect pool one of the very best in the league? Would you call Gorton a good drafter?

It's not "suck and be good later." Right now it's, "suck and maybe we'll see what happens I guess."

The Flyers have their future 1C without trading their current 1C or their other current 1C, and like 92 prospects on defense who would be our best. That's a rebuild going right.

What is ‘this type of rebuild’? And I’m genuinely curious as to what the very few of the teams are that haven’t wasted ELCs of their cornerstone players because I can’t think of a single one off the top of my head.

I know you’re probably not going to agree with me on this, but I think long term planning in sports is generally bullshit outside of keeping franchise guys, there’s too many moving pieces from too many teams for it to be anything else. I think you can have a general path you want the team to go down, but on that path you might run into a shortcut that’ll get you where you want to be faster or you might make the wrong decision at a fork in the road and prolong your trip. That all takes the form of trades, free agents, draft lotteries, players exceeding expectation, players developments stalling or busting, significant injuries, etc.

And yes, I would call our prospect pool as one of the best in the league, it’s probably somewhere around 5th, give or take a spot. And I do think Gorton’s a good drafter, I know there’s the whole thing of people thinking he thinks he’s smarter than everyone because he doesn’t always follow a consensus, but the more I follow this stuff, the more I realize consensus is just a publications opinion and not a consensus and that people get way too caught up in specific number rankings rather than looking at players in tiers or groups of similar guys with different traits different teams are interested in.

I also don’t think they’re trying to have a team that outright sucks as much as a team that most of their losses will come in close games

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Somebody has to ****ing do it. Most of the board wets itself with excitement over everything the team does.

Especially this. This sucks. There is nothing good about this team's current situation.

Are you sure you are talking about this board? Maybe in a parallel universe but on planet earth this board is a bastion of negativity.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

What happened to Staal over the summer? He is looking so smooth and sleek making nice plays.

Skjei on the other hand is looking like a lumbering clumsy clown, good job throwing huge 6 year contract his way after a bad season. Would love for him to be included in some big trade.

Pionk did not have a good game.

I don't understand why Gropp, Meskanen, Lindqvist, and O'Gara play only 1 game so far. Meskanen and O'Gara looked very good in their single game action.

I liked Crawley's physical game a lot.

Namestnikov and Vesey looked a little better than their last game.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

End of the world attitudes here.

In preseason.

As a rebuilding team.

WTF...

 

[Machinehead]

What is ‘this type of rebuild’? And I’m genuinely curious as to what the very few of the teams are that haven’t wasted ELCs of their cornerstone players because I can’t think of a single one off the top of my head.

I know you’re probably not going to agree with me on this, but I think long term planning in sports is generally bull**** outside of keeping franchise guys, there’s too many moving pieces from too many teams for it to be anything else. I think you can have a general path you want the team to go down, but on that path you might run into a shortcut that’ll get you where you want to be faster or you might make the wrong decision at a fork in the road and prolong your trip. That all takes the form of trades, free agents, draft lotteries, players exceeding expectation, players developments stalling or busting, significant injuries, etc.

And yes, I would call our prospect pool as one of the best in the league, it’s probably somewhere around 5th, give or take a spot. And I do think Gorton’s a good drafter, I know there’s the whole thing of people thinking he thinks he’s smarter than everyone because he doesn’t always follow a consensus, but the more I follow this stuff, the more I realize consensus is just a publications opinion and not a consensus and that people get way too caught up in specific number rankings rather than looking at players in tiers or groups of similar guys with different traits different teams are interested in.

I also don’t think they’re trying to have a team that outright sucks as much as a team that most of their losses will come in close games

Ok, so forget the ELC. Do you see this team having a whole roster by the time Hughes (hypothetically) is on his second contract? Frankly, I don't see a team without lots of holes for 6-7 years.

But you're right, there's too many moving parts to say that. Except, as you said, keeping franchise players. That's an important point. Our next franchise defenseman might not even be alive right now. That really, really bothers me. It's why I'm not really on board with this. It's why I'm not on board with trading the closest thing we had for a mediocre return. If we got a great return for McDonagh, again, different story. We didn't, and we didn't because for some reason, we were absolutely desperate to trade him and the league knew it. I still don't see where the gun was to our heads on that. The contract? I'd rather pay McDonagh what he's making than pay Skjei what he's making. What if this team is ready to roll by 2021 except Brady Skjei is still our 1D? Say hello to mediocre, which is the thing everyone is afraid of.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I haven't seen a neutral source that has us any higher than 9th. I haven't liked any of Gorton's drafts. This is the same front office that went from Cup contenders to rebuilding, but we've given them unwavering trust to commandeer the rebuild. Gorton has been a factor longer than most realize or want to admit. At best, he was Sather's AGM and hand-picked replacement. It's not the radical change it's made out to be.

Was this a close game, really? We might have one of the best lines in hockey. Good for the Rangers on that. However, this was men versus boys when that line wasn't on the ice. They left Kreider and Zibanejad alone because they just assumed Andersson and Chytil would be ready now. They're not. And yet they talk about their "glut of centers" and they're taking that same gun they put against their heads on McDonagh and putting it back to their heads on Hayes. This team can't plan short-term let alone long-term.

 

[Machinehead]

Are you sure you are talking about this board? Maybe in a parallel universe but on planet earth this board is a bastion of negativity.

At one point, I would agree.

Since the rebuild started, and knowing how much this site adores rebuilds? Complete 180.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Again, I was extremely consistent on keeping McDonagh, despite his flaws as a player.

Brady Skjei isn't even worth *****ing about.

Skjei's play has really declined, and the sooner we move him and his ridiculous contract the better.

 

[Machinehead]

Skjei's play has really declined, and the sooner we move him and his ridiculous contract the better.

The contract gets me because we didn't pay him like a 1D, acknowledging that he isn't, but we're still going to force him to be come hell or high water with no other feasible plan currently in the organization.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Ok, so forget the ELC. Do you see this team having a whole roster by the time Hughes (hypothetically) is on his second contract? Frankly, I don't see a team without lots of holes for 6-7 years.

But you're right, there's too many moving parts to say that. Except, as you said, keeping franchise players. That's an important point. Our next franchise defenseman might not even be alive right now. That really, really bothers me. It's why I'm not really on board with this. It's why I'm not on board with trading the closest thing we had for a mediocre return. If we got a great return for McDonagh, again, different story. We didn't, and we didn't because for some reason, we were absolutely desperate to trade him and the league knew it. I still don't see where the gun was to our heads on that. The contract? I'd rather pay McDonagh what he's making than pay Skjei what he's making. What if this team is ready to roll by 2021 except Brady Skjei is still our 1D? Say hello to mediocre, which is the thing everyone is afraid of.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I haven't seen a neutral source that has us any higher than 9th. I haven't liked any of Gorton's drafts. This is the same front office that went from Cup contenders to rebuilding, but we've given them unwavering trust to commandeer the rebuild. Gorton has been a factor longer than most realize or want to admit. At best, he was Sather's AGM and hand-picked replacement. It's not the radical change it's made out to be.

Was this a close game, really? We might have one of the best lines in hockey. Good for the Rangers on that. However, this was men versus boys when that line wasn't on the ice. They left Kreider and Zibanejad alone because they just assumed Andersson and Chytil would be ready now. They're not. And yet they talk about their "glut of centers" and they're taking that same gun they put against their heads on McDonagh and putting it back to their heads on Hayes. This team can't plan short-term let alone long-term.

I’m about to go to sleep, but I want to give this and you a proper response, so I’m just letting you know that I’m going to do that in the morning