Post-Game Talk: PS #5 - 09/26/18 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Oscar Lindberg]

In terms of what type of rebuild this is, it feels more like a Toronto plan

If they're trying to follow the Toronto timeline in terms of drafting, this would be the year we get our Matthews (aka Hughes)

One can only hope

 

[Edge]

So your strategy is to be painfully mediocre until we luck out and win a lottery pick maybe we hope?

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out the proposed approach myself.

 

[Edge]

Their rebuild is several years in the works, but they were never awful and never traded Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier etc.

Sure they lucked out picking #2 when they barely missed the playoffs. That's unlikely to happen to us. You know what is likely to happen to us. We pick somewhere in the top 5 and the lottery forces us down. There's a 60% chance or better of that happening.

We'll see how much "complaining" is going on if we have the worst record and pick 4th.

No, but they did trade Richards, Carter and Van Riemsdyk. Those are the trades that got them Simmons and Voracek in the first place. And both Richards and Carter were in their 20s at the time. And no, neither Simmons or Voracek screamed bluechip at the time, and the JVR trade certainly didn't work in their favor.

And I don't think we can just brush past that whole second pick thing and move on with the conversation. That's a very big component of their makeup moving forward. Kind of like we can't overlook to other top 10 picks who are big part of that forward movement --- Couturier and Provorov.

So if we're going to talk about Philly and what they did and didn't do, we also need to acknowledge the roads that got them there.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

If they're trying to follow the Toronto timeline in terms of drafting, this would be the year we get our Matthews (aka Hughes)

One can only hope

At least this draft has a few potential high end centers after Hughes too, and if all this Panarin smoke is really fire, a big ticket FA would be here sooner

 

[Blue Blooded]

In terms of what type of rebuild this is, it feels more like a Toronto plan rather than a Sabres plan where instead of trading literately everyone away, they trade some bigger pieces with bigger cap hits to start freeing up their books, then start swinging pretty big with their draft picks and then getting active in free agency because the Rangers and Toronto are both prime time destinations and it would be really foolish to not use that to their advantage

I see it as more of a Winnipeg rebuild plan. Where it is going to take an accumulation of picks over several years, and very likely take some of those picks to turn out better than their draft slot would have indicated for it to eventually culminate into an up and coming team that has enough talent to compete with those who had some of the really early picks. Or they will win / move up to very early in a draft lottery or two.

Isn't the Winnipeg plan based on a realization that they're always going to be a net loser in the UFA market, so they have to focus solely on the draft because they have no other options of building their team?

To be a team like NYR or TOR and not utilizing your advantage in the UFA market would be foolish. It is very important to have good pro scouting though, so you sign the right UFAs (and trade for the right disgruntled RFAs).

 

[True Blue]

Also I would LOVE to know who here used to go crazy with frustration that the team would sign high priced FA just so it could 'forever be middle of the road/mediocre'.

I am one such

 

[Blue Blooded]

No, but they did trade Richards, Carter and Van Riemsdyk. Those are the trades that got them Simmons and Voracek in the first place. And both Richards and Carter were in their 20s at the time. And no, neither Simmons or Voracek screamed bluechip at the time, and the JVR trade certainly didn't work in their favor.

And I don't think we can just brush past that whole second pick thing and move on with the conversation. That's a very big component of their makeup moving forward. Kind of like we can't overlook to other top 10 picks who are big part of that forward movement --- Couturier and Provorov.

So if we're going to talk about Philly and what they did and didn't do, we also need to acknowledge the roads that got them there.

The Carter and Richards trades, which were reactions to off-ice issues, didn't only turn out to be perfectly timed but also homerun wins for Philadelphia. Too bad (for Gritty's team) that every other subsequent roster decision Holmgren made was terrible, otherwise they'd have a ridiculous team. Imagine if they had trusted Bob instead of signing Bryz for example?

 

[nevesis]

henrik is going to be the reason we end up bottom 5 he is just not a top 10 or even a top 20 goaltender anymore. he was awful last night as well.

Crab people gonna crab.

 

[Off Sides]

Isn't the Winnipeg plan based on a realization that they're always going to be a net loser in the UFA market, so they have to focus solely on the draft because they have no other options of building their team?

To be a team like NYR or TOR and not utilizing your advantage in the UFA market would be foolish. It is very important to have good pro scouting though, so you sign the right UFAs (and trade for the right disgruntled RFAs).

I see it as more of a Winnipeg rebuild mostly because I have trouble imagining them winning or moving up in the lottery, so I am figuring they are going to have to draft players who in hindsight should have been taken earlier in their drafts and that may take a while for it to play out. Maybe Chytil, Kravtsov, etc are them, maybe not.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Isn't the Winnipeg plan based on a realization that they're always going to be a net loser in the UFA market, so they have to focus solely on the draft because they have no other options of building their team?

To be a team like NYR or TOR and not utilizing your advantage in the UFA market would be foolish. It is very important to have good pro scouting though, so you sign the right UFAs (and trade for the right disgruntled RFAs).

That’s also why Winnipeg won’t trade their disgruntled player(s) until they’re right on the cusp of leaving or becoming a huge problem, they don’t want to set the precedent that players can just request a trade to get out and get their way

 

[Edge]

The Carter and Richards trades, which were reactions to off-ice issues, didn't only turn out to be perfectly timed but also homerun wins for Philadelphia. Too bad (for Gritty's team) that every other subsequent roster decision Holmgren made was terrible, otherwise they'd have a ridiculous team. Imagine if they had trusted Bob instead of signing Bryz for example?

Agreed.

Which is also part of why I have no reservations about trading a soon to be 29 year old Ryan McDonagh, 4 years removed from his peak, and 16 months away from free agency, when we did.

For all this talk about some great purge, the reality is that one of the guys we traded continues to be a shell of his former self, another is sitting out this year due to concussions, and Grabner did ugatz after leaving the team.

Miller did well for himself, and then the playoffs happened again. Not that Namestnikov strikes me as anything to write home about.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

My expectation is that this year is probably rock bottom, with an upswing next year.

But we have to face a number of truths in order to accept whatever happens in the future.

1. Not every kid is going to make it.

2. Not every trade is going to be a win.

3. For now, most players are not going to be playing in their optimal role.

4. The veteran you like might not be worth what you think they are at this stage in their career.

5. You can’t run a team off a data print out. If it was that simple, everyone would be painting by numbers.

6. Rookies and young players are going to look like dog crap sometimes.

7. The vets you hate are not going anywhere until someone else can somewhat replace them.

8. A young player isn’t suddenly a future all star because of a few good games, or a bust because of a few bad ones.

9. Rebuilding hurts and can be very frustrating. We are not nearly as far along as some want to think.

10. There’s no guarantee that any of this will work. That’s the risk.

Now how the hell are they going sell all those half season packages and deep fried rice balls with this realistic take on the next 5-10 years you ungrateful swine?!?

 

[Edge]

Now how the hell are they going sell all those half season packages and deep fried rice balls with this realistic take on the next 5-10 years you ungrateful swine?!?

They'll make up for it with $30 cocktails.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

They'll make up for it with $30 cocktails.

Balance sheet looks fine....