Post-Game Talk: PS #5 - 09/26/18 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Ori]

I`m glad that some here agree with my reasoning and view on how they use Namestnikov at the moment. He need to be back in the top 9 lineup , and I hope he earn his minutes in near future and I`ll cheer on him if that is going to be needed with this management and a new coaching staff.

 

[Ail]

Lmao imagine being Machinehead.

I’d hate to be Quinn right now too because honestly who goes to the AHL and who makes the team would be decided by magic eight balls and fortune cookies.

 

[BearishRiggs]

The Hayes thing just ****ing kills me, so I have to expand on that.

Instead of locking him up, we sign a one-year deal and take him to UFA. What does that mean? That means we likely have to trade him. Either that, or sign him for even more money now because he goes from no leverage to all of the leverage; he can go wherever he wants.

So we decide to trade him. All 30 teams know we have to. His value plummets. And he's a UFA, so there's no guarantee you keep him. He's a rental. His value takes another huge hit.

For a second time now, we've put ourselves in a desperate situation where we're going to burn an asset where nobody has to give us an appropriate return, including the player because he's UFA now.

Why did we do this? Because we have too many centers. With our 18 and 19 YO's that have barely touched NHL ice, we have too many centers.

Rick Nash, a 34 year old, injury prone 3rd line winger, returned a late 1st, decent defensive prospect, and a young, solid top 9 player. As a rental.

Relax with the hyperbole.

 

[Off Sides]

Some takeaways from the game:

• KZB can't stay together, the extent we become a 1-line team with that combination is ridiculous. At least one of them needs to help on another line.
• Chytil might not be ready for NHL action. Apart from the little time he got to play with KZ, he got buried tonight and he got buried against Philly. Maybe he just can't hack it at center yet though, play him at wing tomorrow.
• Zibanejad continues being a legit 1C and the PP1 unit looks as fantastic as it did last year before Shatty's knee became an issue. Zib and DeAngelo have been the preseason standouts so far.
• Crawley isn't an ideal partner, but Pionk got buried once again. Try him with Smith or Claesson tomorrow, if that doesn't work out I think he needs to start the season in Hartford.
• I had been hoping that Staal-Shattenkirk could be a good way to contain Staal if he has to be in the lineup as they were legitimately good as a pairing last year. Less optimistic about that now. Play Shatty with Smith or Claesson tomorrow. Staal has hopefully played himself out of the opening night lineup at this point.
• Brett Howden has been hilariously out of his depth this pre-season, nowhere near an option for 4C. Against PHI he conceded 114 shot attempts per 60 min, tonight it was 118. For reference, a very good PP unit attempts 110.
• Not sure what's going on with Namestnikov, but I don't like it. Can't be counted carrying the load even possession-wise on a line and needs to ride shotgun to at least one superior player. In any case, Names-Vesey is a toxic combination and Quinn needs to stop playing them together.
• Please don't fall for the "OFD-DFD"-meme and play Skjei-McQuaid.
• Don't think Lettieri is a good option for the 4th line, though playing with Howden is a pretty thankless task.

Blue Blooded's opening night lineup at this moment:

Spooner-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Namestnikov-Hayes-Zuccarello
Kreider-Andersson-Chytil (Chytil is sent down to HFD and replaced by Fast if the line struggles)
McLeod-Fontaine-Fast (McLeod is replaced by Vesey when his hot streak ends, Beleskey takes the spot when healthy)

Skjei-DeAngelo
Smith-Shattenkirk
Claesson-Pionk

Hopefully Hajek gets a shot at earning an opening night spot tomorrow.

I too agree with much of this, However I am not sure I think Lias is totally ready either. I think he is much closer than Chytil but I'd probably go safer there and just have him in the AHL too. I mean one or two bad games and he is going to be labeled not ready, and should he look like Chytil last night some folks are going to be screaming that the Rangers are ruining him and the rebuild is already a failure.

That puts Holland back into the NHL, and I'd probably keep up Fogarty over Fontaine.

None of that would have anything to do with making the NHL roster better, it would be more about just hopefully having the all the legit prospects who are younger, who still could improve together hopefully doing so in the AHL while the NHL team does whatever it is going to do.

Like how sure are the Rangers that this NHL environment, which is not likely to have much success, is going to be a good place to develop their prospects? Or would it be better off for them all to be together hopefully having a good AHL season? And if they still are not having a good AHL season, is it time to reevaluate what is going on at the AHL level? I kind of feel like I wrote a similar post before camp even started.

 

[Inferno]

Kevin Hayes can be traded at the deadline for at least as much as Nash got. He's young and plays a premium position.

 

[Inferno]

Having chytil and Andersson start in Hartford wouldn't be the worst thing in the world....and honestly it's probably what's best for their development, and the teams long term future in more ways than one. You let them develop in Hartford with a much better team than last season, and you give big minutes to guys like spooner, namestnikov, Hayes, vesey, etc to build their value for the deadline, and you probably suck which gives you a better draft pick.

Frankly, win, win, win.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Having chytil and Andersson start in Hartford wouldn't be the worst thing in the world....and honestly it's probably what's best for their development, and the teams long term future in more ways than one. You let them develop in Hartford with a much better team than last season, and you give big minutes to guys like spooner, namestnikov, Hayes, vesey, etc to build their value for the deadline, and you probably suck which gives you a better draft pick.

Frankly, win, win, win.

Yeah this would probably be the best thing they could do for the tank.

Don’t think they go that route though. They’ve been selling us on these two guys all camp. Maybe one goes down, but I can’t see both of them not being here.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I too agree with much of this, However I am not sure I think Lias is totally ready either. I think he is much closer than Chytil but I'd probably go safer there and just have him in the AHL too. I mean one or two bad games and he is going to be labeled not ready, and should he look like Chytil last night some folks are going to be screaming that the Rangers are ruining him and the rebuild is already a failure.

That puts Holland back into the NHL, and I'd probably keep up Fogarty over Fontaine.

None of that would have anything to do with making the NHL roster better, it would be more about just hopefully having the all the legit prospects who are younger, who still could improve together hopefully doing so in the AHL while the NHL team does whatever it is going to do.

Like how sure are the Rangers that this NHL environment, which is not likely to have much success, is going to be a good place to develop their prospects? Or would it be better off for them all to be together hopefully having a good AHL season? And if they still are not having a good AHL season, is it time to reevaluate what is going on at the AHL level? I kind of feel like I wrote a similar post before camp even started.

What gives me hope that Lias can play in the NHL is that 1) he hasn't been buried on ice like Chytil has and 2) he's not had nearly as good linemates as Chytil has. Apart from ~4 minutes with Zuccarello (where the results were very good BTW), Lias has played with Lettieri, Gettinger, Names, Vesey, Fast, Lindqvist, McLeod. And apart from our lord and savior Cody McLeod that lineup doesn't exactly scream "talent". Just like I'd like to try Chytil at wing before sending him down I'd like to try Andersson with at least one of our skill players before doing the same.

 

[Machinehead]

The current tone, again, is optimism about how abysmal we are.

Just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that. I don't get it. I never got it. You'll have to excuse me.

 

[Off Sides]

What gives me hope that Lias can play in the NHL is that 1) he hasn't been buried on ice like Chytil has and 2) he's not had nearly as good linemates as Chytil has. Apart from ~4 minutes with Zuccarello (where the results were very good BTW), Lias has played with Lettieri, Gettinger, Names, Vesey, Fast, Lindqvist, McLeod. And apart from our lord and savior Cody McLeod that lineup doesn't exactly scream "talent". Just like I'd like to try Chytil at wing before sending him down I'd like to try Andersson with at least one of our skill players before doing the same.

I agree Lias looks more ready, but not sure if having, what looks to be their best and youngest current prospects on the NHL team is going to be good for their development, or even good for the Rangers once the media starts keying in on those prospects and conflating that with how the Rangers are doing overall.

 

[Blue Blooded]

The current tone, again, is optimism about how abysmal we are.

Just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that. I don't get it. I never got it. You'll have to excuse me.

Is it? Apart from a handful prolific posters I feel most optimism is centered around the team playing a less soul-crushing brand of hockey and that the team might not be as bad as we've feared.

That might just be perspective bias on my part though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The current tone, again, is optimism about how abysmal we are.

Just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that. I don't get it. I never got it. You'll have to excuse me.

It’s more optimism at the direction rather than the current state of the team.

Trust me, you and the rest of us would have a much bigger problem with this team had they stayed put and kept on trying to squeeze out a playoff berth. No one wants to be the eastern conference Wild.

 

[Ori]

Lias looks ready for me he has been playing very well this season with mix quality on his line. And I would consider using Chytil as wing and use Hayes in that center role. At least have a wing on his line who can play a center role like Nam. I don`t blame Chytil on that goal in 3 v 3 I thought Henrik should save that one, and the coach he is just testing our young talents last night in that OT to see what they can do related to skills and both are highly skilled players, but young and unexperienced in NHL.

 

[Machinehead]

It’s more optimism at the direction rather than the current state of the team.

Trust me, you and the rest of us would have a much bigger problem with this team had they stayed put and kept on trying to squeeze out a playoff berth. No one wants to be the eastern conference Wild.

I don't see what's great about the long-term direction.

 

[Machinehead]

Is it? Apart from a handful prolific posters I feel most optimism is centered around the team playing a less soul-crushing brand of hockey and that the team might not be as bad as we've feared.

That might just be perspective bias on my part though.

All of the non-NJ games have been soul-crushing, and like I said, that team is just brutal.

 

[nevesis]

All of the non-NJ games have been soul-crushing, and like I said, that team is just brutal.

Can we at least play 15-20 games of regular season hockey before we automatically assume this?

 

[Machinehead]

Can we at least play 15-20 games of regular season hockey before we automatically assume this?

It's a safe assumption.

 

[offdacrossbar]

although early, henrik continues to worry me. i hope georgy can steal some (alot) of games...

gonna be a loooooongggggg year. think the effort will be there and i think we will be on the bubble at the end.

in my mind the key is the 2019 draft. loaded with talent. if we come away with a top 3 player, it will be worth the pain were are going to experience starting next week.

if we stride to the podium next year with the 11th pick, ill be sad.

 

[Blue Blooded]

although early, henrik continues to worry me. i hope georgy can steal some (alot) of games...

gonna be a loooooongggggg year. think the effort will be there and i think we will be on the bubble at the end.

in my mind the key is the 2019 draft. loaded with talent. if we come away with a top 3 player, it will be worth the pain were are going to experience starting next week.

if we stride to the podium next year with the 11th pick, ill be sad.

I'd wait quite a while before getting worried about Hank. Apart from that one season a few years back where you wondered if he was going to have a stroke from standing on his head for two months straight, he always takes quite a while to get going.

 

[True Blue]

All of the non-NJ games have been soul-crushing, and like I said, that team is just brutal.

It's a rebuilding year. Why would you think that the team would look like a contender?

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't see what's great about the long-term direction.

What are the other options? Continue to toil in mediocrity? Trade off what was left of our prospect pool for futile attempts at a cup run?

I frankly don't see what is bad about the long term direction. They are keeping enough veterans to where they aren't forced to play their young kids if they aren't ready. They aren't ruining prospects like Edmonton and Buffalo do. Frankly, I think RNH, Puljujarvi and maybe even Yakupov, are significantly better on other NHL teams. Finishing in last place and getting a ton of first overall picks doesn't work. Properly developing your prospects does. They hire an NHL coach who has tons of experience at developing young players.

Is the short term going to be tough? Probably. Will we be better long term? Probably.

 

[TGWL]

although early, henrik continues to worry me. i hope georgy can steal some (alot) of games...

gonna be a loooooongggggg year. think the effort will be there and i think we will be on the bubble at the end.

in my mind the key is the 2019 draft. loaded with talent. if we come away with a top 3 player, it will be worth the pain were are going to experience starting next week.

if we stride to the podium next year with the 11th pick, ill be sad.

For the most part, I thought Lundqvist has been fine after his initial pre-season game. Last night, a couple of those goals were absolute bombs. The OT could have been played much better on his part, but everybody on the rink looked brutal during the OT.

If you want a top 3 pick, why are you hoping Georgiev can steal a lot of games?

 

[Kovalev27]

although early, henrik continues to worry me. i hope georgy can steal some (alot) of games...

gonna be a loooooongggggg year. think the effort will be there and i think we will be on the bubble at the end.

in my mind the key is the 2019 draft. loaded with talent. if we come away with a top 3 player, it will be worth the pain were are going to experience starting next week.

if we stride to the podium next year with the 11th pick, ill be sad.

henrik is going to be the reason we end up bottom 5 he is just not a top 10 or even a top 20 goaltender anymore. he was awful last night as well.

 

[Kovalev27]

you shouldn't get beat five hole from the blueline no matter who is shooting. that's just bad

 

[Off Sides]

The rebuild or to retool conversation always reminds me of that Holy Grail Monty Python part where the guy built his castle on a swamp.