Proposal: Proposals Thread: Fix this broken club

[Paralyzer008]

I want Eberle traded for good pieces. He holds the most value of our redundant players. Boston traded Seguin didn't they?

Well and Boston looks great, but they traded Seguin while still having an excellent team without him. Also, keep in mind that is definitely not a good example of a trade to make. Eriksson and Smith have had moments, but Seguin >>> this season, and at his age, it looks like Boston made a massive mistake. They just already had a team good enough to be okay without him. Not a good move for the future though.

73 points in 68 GP. 22 years old.

Boston's scouting, Chara and goaltending saved them from two trades that got rid of 2/10 of the NHL's top scorers (Kessel/Seguin). Jury's still out on Hamilton and Knight, who both are nothing special yet.

 

[T-Funk]

Well and Boston looks great, but they traded Seguin while still having an excellent team without him. Also, keep in mind that is definitely not a good example of a trade to make. Eriksson and Smith have had moments, but Seguin >>> this season, and at his age, it looks like Boston made a massive mistake. They just already had a team good enough to be okay without him. Not a good move for the future though.

73 points in 68 GP. 22 years old.

The oilers might have to make a few mistakes before they get it right too. What they are doing right now is not working,

 

[Raab]

Well and Boston looks great, but they traded Seguin while still having an excellent team without him. Also, keep in mind that is definitely not a good example of a trade to make. Eriksson and Smith have had moments, but Seguin >>> this season, and at his age, it looks like Boston made a massive mistake. They just already had a team good enough to be okay without him. Not a good move for the future though.

73 points in 68 GP. 22 years old.

Boston's scouting, Chara and goaltending saved them from two trades that got rid of 2/10 of the NHL's top scorers (Kessel/Seguin). Jury's still out on Hamilton and Knight, who both are nothing special yet.

They also traded Thornton, sometimes you have to move good players if you want to change the culture of your team.

 

[BarDownBobo]

They also traded Thornton, sometimes you have to move good players if you want to change the culture of your team.

This is what needs to happen. The culture of losing has set in, and the only way to change that is to get rid of those who are allowing it. They need like 10 new faces in the opening day lineup next season, along with a completely new coaching staff. Flip the locker room so hard that it's like a brand new team out there. Because I don't think there's a way to fix this group.

 

[Paralyzer008]

They also traded Thornton, sometimes you have to move good players if you want to change the culture of your team.

Another HORRIBLE trade

If you really want a team as successful as Boston here, you need

1) Chara-So a No.1 D-man

2) Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci - So scouting that gets us top players past round 1

3) Goaltending - So a bonafide No.1 that wins you a ton (hopefully we have this)

Using Boston trades like Thornton/Seguin/Kessel are terrible examples because none of those deals were truly wins for Boston.

It's those 3 elements that turned it around for the Bruins, not the deals.

 

[Hemsky4PM]

Eberle makes sense to me also as trade bait.

I just don't think Nail has the value right now - and I'd want to also move him next season if he's producing.

Targets (ignoring NTC for the moment):

M. Richards
J. Carter
J. Staal
E. Staal
Couturier
Anisimov
Dubinsky
Henrique
Killorn
T. Johnson

All of these guys would fit better than Eberle. Also, I have no doubt that Eberle will get 30 goals and a lots of points on a better team. We need some more balance on the roster and some better 2-way players.

 

[Raab]

Another HORRIBLE trade

If you really want a team as successful as Boston here, you need

1) Chara-So a No.1 D-man

2) Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci - So scouting that gets us top players past round 1

3) Goaltending - So a bonafide No.1 that wins you a ton (hopefully we have this)

Using Boston trades like Thornton/Seguin/Kessel are terrible examples because none of those deals were truly wins for Boston.

It's those 3 elements that turned it around for the Bruins, not the deals.

The return from the Thornton trade helped them get Ference who had 10 points in 25 games during there SC run, and Kessel obviously returned Seguin who had 7 points in 13 games during the run. The Seguin trade is to recent to really comment on. Boston also did it after losing another star in Savard to injury.

 

[Paralyzer008]

The return from the Thornton trade helped them get Ference who had 10 points in 25 games during there SC run, and Kessel obviously returned Seguin who had 7 points in 13 games during the run. The Seguin trade is to recent to really comment on. Boston also did it after losing another star in Savard to injury.

The only reason they had a SC run though is because of the three points I listed above. Those trades really wouldn't have mattered without those 3 points in any sort of positive way.

Boston isn't winning because of making dumb trades, they are winning because of good development and the best free agent signing possibly ever in history.

They did make one good trade, Raycroft for Rask, so big props to Jeff Gorton for that one. But, Rask falls under development as well.

 

[Raab]

The only reason they had a SC run though is because of the three points I listed above. Those trades really wouldn't have mattered without those 3 points in any sort of positive way.

Boston isn't winning because of making dumb trades, they are winning because of good development and the best free agent signing possibly ever in history.

They did make one good trade, Raycroft for Rask, so big props to Jeff Gorton for that one.

They made the Thornton trade to change the culture in Boston, not surprised Thornton still hasn't won a cup. I do agree that we need better scouting, goaltending(more proven anyways, it's been good recently), and a dmen. But nothing is going to change the culture of this franchise until we get rid of the entitlement these kids seem to have. I say rebuild the rebuild and bring in a few more Hendricks, Scrivens, Gordons, and Perrons then move 2 of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Schultz.

 

[oilinblood]

Umberger a healthy scratch again tonight. What happened to that guy?

I remember thinking to myself that the Canucks were making a big mistake when they moved him and thought it was a great pick-up for CBJ when they got him from Philly.

If he didn't have the contract that he does I wonder if he'd be worth a look.

The guy got knocked out by a GINGER..... A midget GINGER.

Im surprised the guy is allowed in the league...

Oh, a OFFENSIVE MINDED, MIDGET, GINGER.

Nough said

 

[oilinblood]

Well and Boston looks great, but they traded Seguin while still having an excellent team without him. Also, keep in mind that is definitely not a good example of a trade to make. Eriksson and Smith have had moments, but Seguin >>> this season, and at his age, it looks like Boston made a massive mistake. They just already had a team good enough to be okay without him. Not a good move for the future though.

73 points in 68 GP. 22 years old.

Boston's scouting, Chara and goaltending saved them from two trades that got rid of 2/10 of the NHL's top scorers (Kessel/Seguin). Jury's still out on Hamilton and Knight, who both are nothing special yet.

Chia knew what potential and skill Seguin had...it was a trade that had to happen.
Could they have gotten more? Yes. But looking back they figured Eriksson would solve their loss of Horton and Seguin was turning into a media cancer and circus sideshow.
Eriksson just isnt physical enough to be on the Bruins. Teams get mentally tuned in for the Bruins...they are ready to go to war. Eriksson just wasnt made to survive that kind of hockey, yet he looked fairly decent physically in Dallas. The difference is players dont play Dallas the way they get up for playing the Bs.

Kessel was traded because Chia had to get rid of him...and they got nothing immediate in return.

Chia, i still think, is one of the best GMs in the league. In his first month he drafts Lucic and Marchand, among others...but those were risky picks to make at those spots. While at the draft he traded away Raycroft to the Toronto Maple Leafs for the rights to Tuukka Rask. And then he nailed the FA market for Chara.

The guy used to be a Sens asst GM and continues to haunt the Leafs.

Boston brass nor fans were surprised with Seguin being traded...nor are they surprised he is doing well with a mediocre, middle of the road, club.
Boston simply cant have a guy that continually drops a homophobic F bomb. He can do that crap in Dallas where no sports writer cares what a hockey player is saying on their twitter...hacked twitter or not.
I think Seguin is the bomb, he reminds me of alot if the dudes i hang out with. He doesnt mean to be a dbag but he says stuff that a media town like Boston can twist...The guy is a complete rockstar in Dallas. He scores and goes to the cheerleader corner to celebrate. I mean the kids rokin it.
With an offseason to mke adjustments to his training Eriksson might make this trade work...then smith and Morrow plus plus. Its on Eriksson to feel the presssure to workout for Bruin hockey this summer. I think he will do just that...because if he doesnt it will be a painful year again for him. Self preservation is a good word for his new bruins gym routine this summer.

Lets remember the cap situation for this year as well...and the fact Chias philosophy is that he gets the players his coach wants. Chia can lways fire the coach but if the coach doesnt trust seguin and seguin is making six mill in a cap crunch season...than he has to be moved. Simple as that. Add in the drama seguin was creating (which boston can handle once from a young guy) and you get a ticket out of town. People forget the cap issue.

 

[Paralyzer008]

They made the Thornton trade to change the culture in Boston, not surprised Thornton still hasn't won a cup. I do agree that we need better scouting, goaltending(more proven anyways, it's been good recently), and a dmen. But nothing is going to change the culture of this franchise until we get rid of the entitlement these kids seem to have. I say rebuild the rebuild and bring in a few more Hendricks, Scrivens, Gordons, and Perrons then move 2 of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Schultz.

The Sharks not winning the cup is definitely not on Thornton, let me assure you of that.

Also, Gordon and Hendricks are quite overrated (Gordon's last 15 GP have been brutal and Hendricks' play is inconsistent) and moving Hall and/or RNH is absolutely ridiculous. Eberle may be the guy who needs to go, but not unless we're getting proven commodity. Part of the reason why Gazdic/Hendricks/Gordon get love in Edmonton is because of the blue collar fans we have here that appreciate mucking it up. I appreciate a tough, gritty player too, if they can play PK effectively or be players that are two-way threats, and I don't think those 3 are at all. Gordon is the best of the 3, but he's had a really rough stretch and his overpaid considering his role. Hendricks' is a guy I used to love but the signs of decline have been in effect this year and for 1.85M/3 more years, we're overpaying a 4th liner and treating him like royalty for a few nice qualities.

Schultz is overrated, if he gets moved I'm not torn, although the potential is still there.

I agree on getting more Perrons and Scrivens: Those two are real NHL players who are key cogs to helping you win. But winning trades is tough in the NHL.

 

[oilinblood]

The Sharks not winning the cup is definitely not on Thornton, let me assure you of that.

Also, Gordon and Hendricks are quite overrated (Gordon's last 15 GP have been brutal and Hendricks' play is inconsistent) and moving Hall and/or RNH is absolutely ridiculous. Eberle may be the guy who needs to go, but not unless we're getting proven commodity. Part of the reason why Gazdic/Hendricks/Gordon get love in Edmonton is because of the blue collar fans we have here that appreciate mucking it up. I appreciate a tough, gritty player too, if they can play PK effectively or be players that are two-way threats, and I don't think those 3 are at all. Gordon is the best of the 3, but he's had a really rough stretch and his overpaid considering his role. Hendricks' is a guy I used to love but the signs of decline have been in effect this year and for 1.85M/3 more years, we're overpaying a 4th liner and treating him like royalty for a few nice qualities.

Schultz is overrated, if he gets moved I'm not torn, although the potential is still there.

I agree on getting more Perrons and Scrivens: Those two are real NHL players who are key cogs to helping you win. But winning trades is tough in the NHL.

I appreciate your sentiments until you mention overpay.
You like to toss all fans that like blue collar players into a group so you can disregard their apprecition for what those players bring...and then you talk about overpaying. One of the BIGGEST delusions held by Edmonton fans is the idea that overpayment is not needed to attract legitimate proven NHL players.

In edmonton you either suck so badnthat you can attract the best college FAs because you are the worst team and have no depth so they can play here and eat a year of service up fast... Or you need to OVERPAY above market to get FAs.

History has proven that FAs are overpays. There is no debate on this. EDMONTON is going to be an ADDITIONAL overpayment.

It would be best if people understood Edmonton as not a highpriority. Even if we have a great organization and are winning cups i still see edmonton having to over pay FAs to sign here. This isnt just about the player, this is familys, wives, people that have options to make millions ANYWHERE.

Most people in edmonton are ONLY here for the money. Once the money becomes equal with other areas they will leave. Most people will take the same rate or slightly less to jump ship and abandon the pathetic and depressing deadness of Edmonton and the canadian north.

 

[T-Funk]

Winning a trade should not be the only viable solution. The reason tambo never made trades was because he wanted to win them all. Make the team better, that's all you can focus on.

You could trade eberle for hanzal and you'd be better off. You would lose the trade though technically.

 

[Kulleroinen*]

They also traded Thornton, sometimes you have to move good players if you want to change the culture of your team.

And the perfect player to trade for culture change is Eberle. Hall is too good, we need RNH, Yakupov has at least some fire in him.

Trading Eberle would send a clear signal and break up the best drinking pals.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I appreciate your sentiments until you mention overpay.
You like to toss all fans that like blue collar players into a group so you can disregard their apprecition for what those players bring...and then you talk about overpaying. One of the BIGGEST delusions held by Edmonton fans is the idea that overpayment is not needed to attract legitimate proven NHL players.

In edmonton you either suck so badnthat you can attract the best college FAs because you are the worst team and have no depth so they can play here and eat a year of service up fast... Or you need to OVERPAY above market to get FAs.

History has proven that FAs are overpays. There is no debate on this. EDMONTON is going to be an ADDITIONAL overpayment.

It would be best if people understood Edmonton as not a highpriority. Even if we have a great organization and are winning cups i still see edmonton having to over pay FAs to sign here. This isnt just about the player, this is familys, wives, people that have options to make millions ANYWHERE.

Most people in edmonton are ONLY here for the money. Once the money becomes equal with other areas they will leave. Most people will take the same rate or slightly less to jump ship and abandon the pathetic and depressing deadness of Edmonton and the canadian north.

And that entire argument is why trades are going to be so crucial for us.

Because UFAs don't just sign here, and when they do, it's for too much money or for too many years.

It's why development here is so damn important, something we've struggled at doing for the last 8 seasons.

There are a lot of Oiler fans who don't understand and throw Stastny and Markov and whoever they can from the market in their lineups, but we'd be lucky to get even 1 UFA at market price.

The smart thing to do with UFAs is wait until a week after free agency and pick up the bargains who now are fighting for a job in a cap world. Some of them will sign with Edmonton only because it means job security at that point.

You're totally right, and it's why we have to be smarter. Like for the most part, I'm fine with Gordon, I just have a lot of concern for a guy struggling like he has in the last 15 GP when he has 2 more seasons left at 3M.

Hendricks was acquired, and although that type of player was needed in our system, that contract could look bad as soon as October 2014. Guys play his role at under 1M in this league. Shawn Thornton, the elitist in the role, is at 1.1M.

But yes, I do criticize the fans that appreciate Gazdic/Jones/Hendricks/Gordon because although they do some good things, other than Gordon, they make marginal impacts on the ice, normally letting more chances at our net. At least Smyth scores on the PP, for example. Gazdic fights, but he's not an NHL player. Jones is a similar deal, a shade of what he used to be, and Hendricks is a new toy right now who's being lauded for leadership (which is fine, although that clearly was lacking tonight) but I don't think his fate will be positive later on. All Joensuu really has is size, he's way too slow for the NHL. MacIntyre is arguably not an AHLer.

I'm just jealous of Chicago, they play 23 skaters that can all play hockey. Even the overpaid guys have been key at times (Bickell, Crawford)

 

[Tarus]

I appreciate your sentiments until you mention overpay.
You like to toss all fans that like blue collar players into a group so you can disregard their apprecition for what those players bring...and then you talk about overpaying. One of the BIGGEST delusions held by Edmonton fans is the idea that overpayment is not needed to attract legitimate proven NHL players.

In edmonton you either suck so badnthat you can attract the best college FAs because you are the worst team and have no depth so they can play here and eat a year of service up fast... Or you need to OVERPAY above market to get FAs.

History has proven that FAs are overpays. There is no debate on this. EDMONTON is going to be an ADDITIONAL overpayment.

It would be best if people understood Edmonton as not a highpriority. Even if we have a great organization and are winning cups i still see edmonton having to over pay FAs to sign here. This isnt just about the player, this is familys, wives, people that have options to make millions ANYWHERE.

Most people in edmonton are ONLY here for the money. Once the money becomes equal with other areas they will leave. Most people will take the same rate or slightly less to jump ship and abandon the pathetic and depressing deadness of Edmonton and the canadian north.

Should be mentioned that Seguin sealed his fate in Boston with his disappearing act during the cup run. He played scared, a problem that has plagued him since his junior days, and the cup finals when your team desperately needs to get something going against a strong opponent is not one of the times to play "pretend you're a ghost".

You can find the boston staff talking about whether to trade Seguin or not during their draft special too. They loved his offense, and hated his compete level. That is a franchise built around tough, abrasive, defensively committed two way players, and Seguin(and Kessel) just didn't fit the mold.

 

[Jtown]

Eberle makes sense to me also as trade bait.

I just don't think Nail has the value right now - and I'd want to also move him next season if he's producing.

Targets (ignoring NTC for the moment):

M. Richards
J. Carter
J. Staal
E. Staal
Couturier
Anisimov
Dubinsky
Henrique
Killorn
T. Johnson

All of these guys would fit better than Eberle. Also, I have no doubt that Eberle will get 30 goals and a lots of points on a better team. We need some more balance on the roster and some better 2-way players.

Henrique, Dubinsky, ANisimov are 3 guys that would change the culture on this team. However I doubt very much they would be willing to come here.

 

[Jtown]

Should be mentioned that Seguin sealed his fate in Boston with his disappearing act during the cup run. He played scared, a problem that has plagued him since his junior days, and the cup finals when your team desperately needs to get something going against a strong opponent is not one of the times to play "pretend you're a ghost".

You can find the boston staff talking about whether to trade Seguin or not during their draft special too. They loved his offense, and hated his compete level. That is a franchise built around tough, abrasive, defensively committed two way players, and Seguin(and Kessel) just didn't fit the mold.

I am pretty sure Seguin was traded because of off ice issues and had nothing to do with their play. Chiraelli is to smart to trade a talented player like seguin all because of a rough performance in the playoffs.

Even Chara came out and said Seguin was a player that he reached out to numerous times over the years to get him to curb his lifestyle a bit and he refused to accommodate.

 

[ResilientBeast]

First things first, dump Eakins. Give this core 10 games next year, with an experienced coach who has gone all the way and will command respect with what he's accomplished not his stupid workout regime.

Then give whatever is left of this team 10 games, if they still play like total horse **** then heads start to roll.

 

[Soundwave]

First things first, dump Eakins. Give this core 10 games next year, with an experienced coach who has gone all the way and will command respect with what he's accomplished not his stupid workout regime.

Then give whatever is left of this team 10 games, if they still play like total horse **** then heads start to roll.

I agree with that, it sounds like a good way to go. Give them 10-15 games next year, if its still a gong show, then I think you start changing the core.

Honestly is Eakins really that big of a fitness guru? Look at this dude's physique:

And we are no where near one of the better conditioned clubs in the NHL, and then you have guys like Smid and Bryzgalov saying other teams run harder practises. Fitness guru my ass.

 

[Jtown]

First things first, dump Eakins. Give this core 10 games next year, with an experienced coach who has gone all the way and will command respect with what he's accomplished not his stupid workout regime.

Then give whatever is left of this team 10 games, if they still play like total horse **** then heads start to roll.

4 coaches in 4 years? at which point is this on the players? are they immune to criticism for their play and simply a product of bad coaching? In no other sport does the coach have less influence on wins and losses than a hockey coach. And yet that has been the excuse here for tool long.

 

[Soundwave]

4 coaches in 4 years? at which point is this on the players? are they immune to criticism for their play and simply a product of bad coaching? In no other sport does the coach have less influence on wins and losses than a hockey coach. And yet that has been the excuse here for tool long.

To be fair they were improving at a fairly steady clip each year of this rebuild (points wise) but have taken a massive step backwards this year.

There's no shame in admitting you hired a coach that's simply in over his head. It's always a risk in hiring an AHL coach.

Honestly the mistake was in firing Tom Renney. He wasn't the greatest coach, but he was experienced in the NHL and went from 62 points in his first year to 74 points in his second year, and all three of Hall, RNH, and Eberle thrived playing under him. We canned him in favor of the "mystery door" rookie option.

We should have cut our losses and hired Lindy Ruff in the summer or even Marc Crawford. One of the reasons Calgary is doing OK with limited talent is that Hartley is a proven NHL coach. Sometimes the rookie option works like Patrick Roy, but a lot of times it does not.

With a group this raw and all over the place, hiring a coach who's young and making his own rookie mistakes was a disaster waiting to happen unfortunately.

 

[Beerfish]

The only way to fix this team is to fire Kevin Lowe and find a proper person to lead from the top. All the details that flow down from there mean nothing at all. In other words there is no fixing this team. As the team is structure right now there is no hope for this particular version of the team.

 

[Jtown]

To be fair they were improving at a fairly steady clip each year of this rebuild (points wise) but have taken a massive step backwards this year.

There's no shame in admitting you hired a coach that's simply in over his head. It's always a risk in hiring an AHL coach.

Honestly the mistake was in firing Tom Renney. He wasn't the greatest coach, but he was experienced in the NHL and went from 62 points in his first year to 74 points in his second year, and all three of Hall, RNH, and Eberle thrived playing under him. We canned him in favor of the "mystery door" rookie option.

We should have cut our losses and hired Lindy Ruff in the summer or even Marc Crawford. One of the reasons Calgary is doing OK with limited talent is that Hartley is a proven NHL coach. Sometimes the rookie option works like Patrick Roy, but a lot of times it does not.

With a group this raw and all over the place, hiring a coach who's young and making his own rookie mistakes was a disaster waiting to happen unfortunately.

So they showed improvement during a lockout year? Look how many teams bought into that fools gold. Ottawa, toronto, NYI, . All 3 of those teams made transactions because they thought last year's shortened season carried some weight , and now those transactions are going to cost all 3 teams dearly.

I agree Renney was a good coach to develop the young players. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Eakins comes across as a uncharismatic guy that fails to instill a sense of leadership that his team follows. Despite that however I feel he has done his best to try to break some of the bad habits that this team has developed over the years most notably allowing our forwards to be too 1 dimensional and not playing the whole ice.

This team is 3-4 years from doing anything so what their record is in the meantime is meaningless. What does matter is that the players try to develop their whole games in that meantime, and I think this season is just a showing of the growing pains that will start paying off in the future.