Proposal: Proposals Thread: Fix this broken club

[Roof Daddy]

You're not paying attention to the deal very well, plus just because Yakupov is struggling (and Russian) Doesn't mean he's horrible, nor is Kane a world beater. Though you MASSIVELY over value the bigness with the hitting, so I can see the reason there.

What part of the deal am I missing? I tried to break it down in order of plausibility. Eberle for Buff are the closest pieces in value, you may even argue Ebs holds slightly more value (though I don't think the Jets would see it that way given how they've built their team on size and grit). The next pieces are Yak and Kane. Jets fans have no interest, and why would they? Kane is bigger, better defensively, more physical, better skater and arguably has a better shot (I'll give Yak the one-timer, but Kane's wrister is quick off the stick and heavy - and he actually gets it off). Which brings us to Joenssu, who I'm not sure would get claimed off waivers. What part am I missing?

 

[Roof Daddy]

Imagine c depth of:
1. E.Staal
2. RNH
3. J.Staal
4. Gordon

One can dream...

We're not getting both without Nuge going the other way. I'm not saying it's not possible (though highly unlikely), but is it really practical to be paying our 3C 6mil and 4C 3mil? 23.25mil (30% of our cap) on 4 centers? Not to mention keeping them happy with playing time.

 

[Philly85*]

Not a fan of Jordan or Eric Staal, Mark I'll take on the team any day however.

 

[Moose Coleman]

I think some people on this site, same time every year, just like the idea of the shiny new bauble out there. Yay, we're going to get another 18 year old forward...

Myers will be a good top 2 defenseman, possibly top 1. He's 24 years old and has all the attributes to make it and he will. His first 2 years in the league were terrific but he's had 2 weak ones on a bad team. He's turned it around again and on his way back up, still on a bad team.
Are we forgetting already how long it takes most good defensemen to develop or are we mesmerized by the Doughtys and Jones of the league that were exceptional...and who's to say Jones doesn't return to earth next year as a sophomore?
If you have a chance to get Myers for a 3rd - 5th overall pick, you do it (providing Ekblad is gone).

And did I mention, he's 24...

If we're giving up a top three pick (there's no chance in hell the Oilers pick in the 5 slot), I would expect it to be for an exceptional player.

BTW:

Doughty
Subban
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Ekman Larsson
E. Johnson
Hedman
Fowler
Brodin
Trouba

Just a few examples of some guys who are impact D, including three of the very best in the game. All the same age as Meyers or even younger. If you had any of those names, would you trade any of them straight up for Meyers?

 

[Sloth Slothersons*]

The Staals is a pipe dream.

I'd offer something based around RNH + Gagner + 1st for both. Would probably have to add.

I'd offer Ebs straight up for Jordan

I'd offer Ebs + Gagner + something for Eric

 

[Oi'll say!]

Definition of 'between a rock and a hard place' -->

I think the best option for the Oilers is to trade the '14 and '15 1st round picks away because they still have enormous value and the Oilers farm system can't develop pictures on a digital camera, the problem is they'd be trading those picks to a team that can and then they have to play against them.


LOL, I'm laughing at my own joke.

 

[Raab]

If we're giving up a top three pick (there's no chance in hell the Oilers pick in the 5 slot), I would expect it to be for an exceptional player.

BTW:

Doughty
Subban
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Ekman Larsson
E. Johnson
Hedman
Fowler
Brodin
Trouba

Just a few examples of some guys who are impact D, including three of the very best in the game. All the same age as Meyers or even younger. If you had any of those names, would you trade any of them straight up for Meyers?

If you had any of those names would you trade them for a pick? Unless the pick is a guaranteed generational talent like Mcdavid I would never move any of those guys for it.

 

[Joey Moss]

If we're giving up a top three pick (there's no chance in hell the Oilers pick in the 5 slot), I would expect it to be for an exceptional player.

BTW:

Doughty
Subban
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Ekman Larsson
E. Johnson
Hedman
Fowler
Brodin
Trouba

Just a few examples of some guys who are impact D, including three of the very best in the game. All the same age as Meyers or even younger. If you had any of those names, would you trade any of them straight up for Meyers?

Not even close to being the same scenario.. If those teams already had a defenseman like that then they aren't desperate to acquire a defenseman like Myers. We don't have anyone like that, and won't be able to acquire anyone like that for the pick so Myers is an option and one of the better one's out there. Think of some defenseman potentially available in the off-season.. Byfuglien, Myers, J. Johnson, Edler.. Take your pick, Myers is the best option for us IMO. We NEED a top pairing guy. Myers can be that guy and has potential to be a very good #1.

 

[McDNicks17]

Myers isn't a top pairing defenseman.

And talking about him with "very good #1" potential is just silly at this point.

 

[sepHF]

I think some people on this site, same time every year, just like the idea of the shiny new bauble out there. Yay, we're going to get another 18 year old forward...

Myers will be a good top 2 defenseman, possibly top 1. He's 24 years old and has all the attributes to make it and he will. His first 2 years in the league were terrific but he's had 2 weak ones on a bad team. He's turned it around again and on his way back up, still on a bad team.
Are we forgetting already how long it takes most good defensemen to develop or are we mesmerized by the Doughtys and Jones of the league that were exceptional...and who's to say Jones doesn't return to earth next year as a sophomore?
If you have a chance to get Myers for a 3rd - 5th overall pick, you do it (providing Ekblad is gone).

And did I mention, he's 24...

Honestly I don't want another 18 year old, if Ekblad is gone I would look to trade the pick. I just wouldn't target Myers, I've never been a big fan personally but as you said he is young and has room to grow - I'm just not sure he'll ever be more than a good second pairing defenseman.

 

[Joey Moss]

Myers isn't a top pairing defenseman.

And talking about him with "very good #1" potential is just silly at this point.

He's 24 years old. It's silly to say "at this point."

 

[Joey Moss]

In the 2006 off-season when Zdeno Chara was a UFA and the Oilers were rumored to be in the mix I remember fans questioning if he was going to be worth the money. He was 28 years old at the time and still unproven. Didn't turn out too bad for the Bruins.

 

[McDNicks17]

He's 24 years old. It's silly to say "at this point."

Five years in the league and he still has horrendous decision making and can't play a lick of defense.

He's one of those players that has their "potential" talked about for years until people realize that they just aren't that good. The Oilers have already had plenty of those players.

 

[McIce Whole]

Five years in the league and he still has horrendous decision making and can't play a lick of defense.

He's one of those players that has their "potential" talked about for years until people realize that they just aren't that good. The Oilers have already had plenty of those players.

So just out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Myers play this season?

 

[Mr Sakich]

So just out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Myers play this season?

I have watched him 3 times this year and agree with the analysis. He plays a hesitant game, sometimes makes the right plays, sometimes collapses too far back. He seems to lack the raw agression and hockey sense that you would like to see in your #1 dman.

imo, he is a stretch to be on a first pairing unless he is with a top guy like jaybo. A trade for him forces us to find another guy who might be even harder to find.

IMO, we go after a guy like Edler or Buff who can be paired with petry to be our #1 pairing. Another option is to find an elite steady eddie like Jaybo and pair him with schultz.

 

[Moose Coleman]

Not even close to being the same scenario.. If those teams already had a defenseman like that then they aren't desperate to acquire a defenseman like Myers. We don't have anyone like that, and won't be able to acquire anyone like that for the pick so Myers is an option and one of the better one's out there. Think of some defenseman potentially available in the off-season.. Byfuglien, Myers, J. Johnson, Edler.. Take your pick, Myers is the best option for us IMO. We NEED a top pairing guy. Myers can be that guy and has potential to be a very good #1.

The point I was making was two fold: one, to show that that elite young defenders don't always need a long time to develop and, two, to show that show Meyers isn't in the top tier of young defencemen in the league.

Again not against getting him, but if the cost is Yak or Eberle or Ekblad, then that's too much to give up for a guy who is still struggling to establish himself.

In the 2006 off-season when Zdeno Chara was a UFA and the Oilers were rumored to be in the mix I remember fans questioning if he was going to be worth the money. He was 28 years old at the time and still unproven. Didn't turn out too bad for the Bruins.

Chara was in no way an unproven defender at that age. He was already established as a top flight D at 24 when he came to Ottawa and was a Norris Trophy candidate twice in his time there.

 

[Beerz]

The point I was making was two fold: one, to show that that elite young defenders don't always need a long time to develop and, two, to show that show Meyers isn't in the top tier of young defencemen in the league.

Again not against getting him, but if the cost is Yak or Eberle or Ekblad, then that's too much to give up for a guy who is still struggling to establish himself.



Chara was in no way an unproven defender at that age. He was already established as a top flight D at 24 when he came to Ottawa and was a Norris Trophy candidate twice in his time there.

How do you figure Chara was a top flight D at 24?

And Chara didnt get his first Norris Nomination until he was 27

 

[McShogun99]

Since it seems like Yakupov is the one most likely to go of the big four why not offer him to whoever drafts 2nd overall if Ekblad is still available? We will probably draft somewhere between 3-5 and could draft a center. Then we make an offer to Buffalo for Stewart, something like 2015 2nd round pick plus a prospect.

 

[OF17]

I'd rather go for Stafford than Stuart. Stuart doesn't jive with MacT's pattern of acquisitions (or coaching [Penner]) either. Lots of talk around acquiring Ference, Hendricks, etc. has been that they were great examples of how hard one needs to work to succeed. Why spend valuable assets to acquire a guy that goes against that grain? Unless he's Dustin Byfuglien and fills a huge hole on the team, I don't see that being worth it.

I wonder if Klefbom + 1st 2015 would get you Ehrhoff + Stafford. If so, do that, sign Winnik for the 3rd line, and draft Draisaitl. Maybe grab Matt Greene or another veteran D for the 3rd pairing.


Hall-Nugent Hopkins-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Winnik-Gordon-Stafford
Hendricks-Lander-Pitlick

Ehrhoff-Petry
Ference-Schultz
Marincin-Greene

Scrivens
Fasth


Then you have Draisaitl, Nurse, et al waiting in the wings and Gagner to deal once Draisaitl is ready. That team competes for the playoffs IMO.

 

[Oilfan2]

I'd rather go for Stafford than Stuart. Stuart doesn't jive with MacT's pattern of acquisitions (or coaching [Penner]) either. Lots of talk around acquiring Ference, Hendricks, etc. has been that they were great examples of how hard one needs to work to succeed. Why spend valuable assets to acquire a guy that goes against that grain? Unless he's Dustin Byfuglien and fills a huge hole on the team, I don't see that being worth it.

I wonder if Klefbom + 1st 2015 would get you Ehrhoff + Stafford. If so, do that, sign Winnik for the 3rd line, and draft Draisaitl. Maybe grab Matt Greene or another veteran D for the 3rd pairing.


Hall-Nugent Hopkins-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Winnik-Gordon-Stafford
Hendricks-Lander-Pitlick

Ehrhoff-Petry
Ference-Schultz
Marincin-Greene

Scrivens
Fasth


Then you have Draisaitl, Nurse, et al waiting in the wings and Gagner to deal once Draisaitl is ready. That team competes for the playoffs IMO.

I doubt it. Nice to add to the D but Petry on the top pairing wears him out. He just isn't a top 2 at the moment.

As well, that top 6 isn't going to cut it. You have to, at least, replace one of them with a bigger, stronger 2-way player...my preference would be replace Gagner but unless we're going to add the 2014 1st to him , he won't get the return we need.

 

[OF17]

I doubt it. Nice to add to the D but Petry on the top pairing wears him out. He just isn't a top 2 at the moment.

As well, that top 6 isn't going to cut it. You have to, at least, replace one of them with a bigger, stronger 2-way player...my preference would be replace Gagner but unless we're going to add the 2014 1st to him , he won't get the return we need.

There's no way we're adding two D to the top pairing and replacing Gagner with a better 2C. We simply don't have the assets to do that without ripping the team apart. I'd envision Ehrhoff coming in at around 24 minutes and Petry around 21, with Schultz and Greene taking occasional shifts with Ehrhoff to compensate.

As for Gagner, I think him with a normal year (more like what we've been seeing the last 15 games) is good enough to stem the tide until a better option arises. Draisaitl might be that a year from now. Until then, what do you do? If you go for Simmonds + Couturier, you burn all of your assets and have Markov as your only option to improve the D. Even then, you still have Petry on the top pair. You could go for Berglund and trade Gagner for a Goligoski, but even then the D is still overwhelmed. I think at this point that improving the defense is more important than finding a replacement for Gagner, especially if Gagner isn't going to bring back good trade value.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I have watched him 3 times this year and agree with the analysis. He plays a hesitant game, sometimes makes the right plays, sometimes collapses too far back. He seems to lack the raw agression and hockey sense that you would like to see in your #1 dman.

imo, he is a stretch to be on a first pairing unless he is with a top guy like jaybo. A trade for him forces us to find another guy who might be even harder to find.

IMO, we go after a guy like Edler or Buff who can be paired with petry to be our #1 pairing. Another option is to find an elite steady eddie like Jaybo and pair him with schultz.

Big Buff is your answer to our defensive woes??? There's a reason they went 13-7-4 since Maurice was hired - mainly because he moved Buff to forward. If you want to acquire him to be a power forward, I'm all for it, but he led that team in give aways while he was still playing D, most being of the atrocious kind.

Edler has been equally shaky, has had a major back surgery 3 years ago (missing 31 games) and missed a month and a half this year with an "undisclosed, lower body injury" which many speculate might be related to the bad back. Does anyone remember Craig Simpson after his back problems? He was out of the league within 2 years. Medical science has surely progressed in those 20 years past, but back injuries still appear to be a debilitating mystery. Then there's that little thing called a NTC, meaning Edler gets to pick his destination. Care to wager whether Edmonton is in his top 5?

Maybe it's been a tale of two seasons for Myers, but the games I saw I thought he was great. Good enough to part with a top 3 pick? I would say no if I actually thought we were going to take one of the top 3 players. All this Draisaitl talk worries me though, and I'd much rather have Myers than him.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Since it seems like Yakupov is the one most likely to go of the big four why not offer him to whoever drafts 2nd overall if Ekblad is still available? We will probably draft somewhere between 3-5 and could draft a center. Then we make an offer to Buffalo for Stewart, something like 2015 2nd round pick plus a prospect.

I thought of a scenario last week: Buffalo gets the #1, NYI gets #2, Edmonton gets 3 or 4.
NYI could give their pick to Buffalo seeing how strong next years draft is, and Buffalo woul then have 1 and 2.
Buffalo can't score, nor do they have any elite offensive prospects.
Would they take Yakupov for the #2 so thy could walk away from the draft with Reinhart and Yakupov?
Oilers take Ekblad at 2, and either Bennett at 3 or Draisaitl at 4.

 

[LTIR]

I thought of a scenario last week: Buffalo gets the #1, NYI gets #2, Edmonton gets 3 or 4.
NYI could give their pick to Buffalo seeing how strong next years draft is, and Buffalo woul then have 1 and 2.
Buffalo can't score, nor do they have any elite offensive prospects.
Would they take Yakupov for the #2 so thy could walk away from the draft with Reinhart and Yakupov?
Oilers take Ekblad at 2, and either Bennett at 3 or Draisaitl at 4.

Isles would be stupid to give away a top 2 pick. MacT would be stupid if he did and we are worse off than NYI..

Isles will keep the pick and load the team for next year.

 

[Soundwave]

I have watched him 3 times this year and agree with the analysis. He plays a hesitant game, sometimes makes the right plays, sometimes collapses too far back. He seems to lack the raw agression and hockey sense that you would like to see in your #1 dman.

imo, he is a stretch to be on a first pairing unless he is with a top guy like jaybo. A trade for him forces us to find another guy who might be even harder to find.

IMO, we go after a guy like Edler or Buff who can be paired with petry to be our #1 pairing. Another option is to find an elite steady eddie like Jaybo and pair him with schultz.

lol, it's funny that JayBo is now a bonafied no.1 again, a year or two ago on this board he was a bust too.

Myers would be an upgrade over what we have now.