Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[Nucker101]

So its the same thing probably that I've heard. That he is not the most conditioned athlete in the league.

Isn’t this pretty much common knowledge amongst this fanbase?

I mean Hutton himself talked about his drop in body fat % after training with Claude Giroux during the summer.

 

[Horse McHindu]

McCann was 19 and had just played his rookie season in the NHL. You of all people are going with “we had a pretty good idea of what we had”? That’s rich considering the miles of rope you give every Canuck prospect and young player with “but it’s too early to tell”.

Miles of rope in terms of, "can this guy be an effective NHL player / Top 6 forward / Top 4 defenseman?".........not, "Can this guy still be a massive superstar?" So yes - I have given guys like Juolevi, Virtanen, etc., "miles of rope" for the former, because I think those guys can still become that. Even in the case of a Virtanen, I'm not sure even sure if he'll be a Top 6 forward. I actually have him pegged to be a Raffi Torres/effective 3rd line guy, but I digress....."

Usually with superstars, you pretty much know if they have a good chance of becoming one or not after a very short time (i.e. Matthews, Laine, Hischier, Boeser, Pettersson, etc., just to name a few).
While anything is possible obviously (i.e. Bertuzzi, Naslund, Sedins'), I think it's safe to say that no one was thinking "future superstar" after seeing McCann in his first year. Again - he's still young enough to disprove that, but still......for the most part, McCann was a KNOWN commodity.

Toronto's first two picks were UNKNOWN commodities, and given where their team was slated to finish in upcoming years, it was a very high risk move on Burke's part to giving up TWO Firsts' (i.e. two UNKNOWN'S that had a relatively high chance of becoming SUPERSTARS). The trade blew up badly in Burke's face, and it could have been far worse had Boston not moved on from Tyler Seguin (SUPERSTAR) and Dougie Hamilton (SUPERSTAR)

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Isn’t this pretty much common knowledge amongst this fanbase?

I mean Hutton himself talked about his drop in body fat % after training with Claude Giroux during the summer.

I just wanted to be sure it was the same rumor we were talking.

 

[CanaFan]

Miles of rope in terms of, "can this guy be an effective NHL player / Top 6 forward / Top 4 defenseman?".........not, "Can this guy still be a massive superstar?" So yes - I have given guys like Juolevi, Virtanen, etc., "miles of rope" for the former, because I think those guys can still become that. Even in the case of a Virtanen, I'm not sure even sure if he'll be a Top 6 forward. I actually have him pegged to be a Raffi Torres/effective 3rd line guy, but I digress....."

Usually with superstars, you pretty much know if they have a good chance of becoming one or not after a very short time (i.e. Matthews, Laine, Hischier, Boeser, Pettersson, etc., just to name a few).
While anything is possible obviously (i.e. Bertuzzi, Naslund, Sedins'), I think it's safe to say that no one was thinking "future superstar" after seeing McCann in his first year. Again - he's still young enough to disprove that, but still......for the most part, McCann was a KNOWN commodity.

Toronto's first two picks were UNKNOWN commodities, and given where their team was slated to finish in upcoming years, it was a very high risk move on Burke's part to giving up TWO Firsts' (i.e. two UNKNOWN'S that had a relatively high chance of becoming SUPERSTARS). The trade blew up badly in Burke's face, and it could have been far worse had Boston not moved on from Tyler Seguin (SUPERSTAR) and Dougie Hamilton (SUPERSTAR)

Sure and undoubtedly Burke expected those firsts to be 15 or later because based on his assessment of the team, he expected Kessel to put them into the playoffs. The draft picks were unknowns, both in terms of where they’d be as well as how those players would pan out. Just as Benning didn’t know how McCann would pan out once he stopped being a physically underdeveloped teenager who was rushed into the NHL.

You do understand things can be the same without being identical, right? Cheddar cheese and Swiss are both cheeses despite being different colours and textures, yes?

Similarly we are trying to ascertain whether Benning made moves in a similar vein to Burke, not whether he made the *exact* same moves.

You spend so much time arguing unimportant details while completely avoiding the common intent that both shared. I mean I understand why you do it, but it does make for painful discussion.

 

[y2kcanucks]

@y2kcanucks ,

Earlier you mentioned that the acquisition of Del Zotto has held back Hutton? Do you honestly believe that? Party boy smiley face Hutton? The guy who doesn’t take his craft seriously? Really?

Hutton earned his spot in 2015 when he made the team, but has not grown since then. Numerous rumors about his lackadaisical attitude and his fitness. It’s not like the Canucks are asking him to outplay Duncan Keith for a spot. It’s Michael freakin’ Del Zotto. If “smiley face” Hutton can’t beat out Del Zotto despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so, then how good is Hutton really?

Yes - Hutton worked hard this off season and has been given a clean slate. We will see what he does when he draws into the lineup.

Hutton's been given a clean slate? I don't know about that...he's still being made a healthy scratch.

Green loves his veterans so it was natural that he played MDZ ahead of Hutton. Further to that, Hutton was perfectly fine last year when he wasn't paired with Gudbranson. He simply wasn't good enough to cover for Gudbranson's inept play, yet for some reason Hutton is the one who gets blamed while Gudbranson got a raise. Another example of the pathetic way this team is run.

 

[valkynax]

Hutton's been given a clean slate? I don't know about that...he's still being made a healthy scratch.

Green loves his veterans so it was natural that he played MDZ ahead of Hutton. Further to that, Hutton was perfectly fine last year when he wasn't paired with Gudbranson. He simply wasn't good enough to cover for Gudbranson's inept play, yet for some reason Hutton is the one who gets blamed while Gudbranson got a raise. Another example of the pathetic way this team is run.

I think it can be simplified down to how we have possibly THE worst defense in the league right now.

Thanks to EP40, BH53 and BB6, the forward corps is at least watchable (a very low bar, if you ask me). But our pathetic defense will be the engine of the tank train.

 

[RandV]

I think it can be simplified down to how we have possibly THE worst defense in the league right now.

Thanks to EP40, BH53 and BB6, the forward corps is at least watchable (a very low bar, if you ask me). But our pathetic defense will be the engine of the tank train.

Thinking back I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. Following the 2013-14 season I had felt that while the Sedin's were a ticking time bomb to tank our offense we'd manage to do okay largely on the back of a strong D core which has been a consistant backbone of the team for such a long time. Even with some of the guys getting older we'd always been able to draft/develop/trade/sign a player or two every few years to keep the ball rolling.

Who would have guessed that Benning, especially being a former NHL dman himself, would be such a garbage collector and make this the teams critical weakness.

 

[Icebreakers]

Jack Hughes with a very "meh" start to the season in the USNDP, which is said to be weaker than all CHL leagues. Hopefully its just a slow start but hes missing Wahlstrom and Farabee. His competitors around him are all off to blazing starts as well. Wouldnt be surprised to see us drafting Jack at 2nd or 3rd overall.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Jack Hughes with a very "meh" start to the season in the USNDP, which is said to be weaker than all CHL leagues. Hopefully its just a slow start but hes missing Wahlstrom and Farabee. His competitors around him are all off to blazing starts as well. Wouldnt be surprised to see us drafting Jack at 2nd or 3rd overall.

Good, because the talents won’t disappear

 

[DDRhockey]

I would take more russians. They are skilled. I would pick winger Vasili Podkolzin.

 

[M2Beezy]

No they don't.

We will see MBM theyre pretty good prospects. Palmu and Gad too but takes patience

 

[RandV]

We will see MBM theyre pretty good prospects. Palmu and Gad too but takes patience

No they don't have "good chances" to be "impact players". Hughes aside it's going to be an uphill battle for each of them just to become a regular NHL player. It's nothing specific about our prospect group but rather that's just how the NHL has always worked. Realistically taking Hughes aside it's more like we'll get 1-2 impact player out of that group and another 2-3 regular NHLers. And even that might be generous.

 

[M2Beezy]

No they don't have "good chances" to be "impact players". Hughes aside it's going to be an uphill battle for each of them just to become a regular NHL player. It's nothing specific about our prospect group but rather that's just how the NHL has always worked. Realistically taking Hughes aside it's more like we'll get 1-2 impact player out of that group and another 2-3 regular NHLers. And even that might be generous.

Yeah I can live with that. Aside from Hughes, Gaudette and Woo will be impact players and Dahlen, Briesy and Brassard regular NHLers. Now throw in some more luck cause we have a lot of them and you can probably add a player to each of those groupings and our future is looking not so bad. I wish we had more, you know without the mistaken trade of picks for Gudbranson, but overall heading in the right direction

 

[geebaan]

Yeah I can live with that. Aside from Hughes, Gaudette and Woo will be impact players and Dahlen, Briesy and Brassard regular NHLers. Now throw in some more luck cause we have a lot of them and you can probably add a player to each of those groupings and our future is looking not so bad. I wish we had more, you know without the mistaken trade of picks for Gudbranson, but overall heading in the right direction

The guy who is 22 in the AHL, and the other guy who put up fairly pedestrian numbers, who's now seriously injured his knee?

Complete shoe-ins

 

[M2Beezy]

The guy who is 22 in the AHL, and the other guy who put up fairly pedestrian numbers, who's now seriously injured his knee?

Complete shoe-ins

Well I never said Dahlen WOULDNT be with them, he still could be a impact player but time will tell

 

[Addison Rae]

We will see MBM theyre pretty good prospects. Palmu and Gad too but takes patience

melvin boy melverson?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Yeah I can live with that. Aside from Hughes, Gaudette and Woo will be impact players and Dahlen, Briesy and Brassard regular NHLers. Now throw in some more luck cause we have a lot of them and you can probably add a player to each of those groupings and our future is looking not so bad. I wish we had more, you know without the mistaken trade of picks for Gudbranson, but overall heading in the right direction

This is laughably optimistic.

 

[CanaFan]

We will see MBM theyre pretty good prospects. Palmu and Gad too but takes patience

Takes more than patience. You can be as patient as you want, some players simply don’t pan out. Waiting forever doesn’t magically change that.

 

[SillyRabbit]

You have to remember that a coach is always trying to win games because losing games puts their job in jeopardy.

Unless you have a clear mandate from management that there is a rebuild underway and developing the young players is the main priority, then the coach will continue to play useless veterans instead of giving the younger players more responsibility.

Take a look at Mike Babcock’s entry interview with the media after being hired by the Maple Leafs. He basically said that they are going to suck but they will learn and grow as a team. He wasn’t afraid to play the young players because he knew that winning a few extra games in a rebuild season wasn’t the goal, but developing the players was.

This was all set in place by his discussions with Shanahan who had a clear goal to rebuild and develop their young talent.

 

[M2Beezy]

melvin boy melverson?

He asked for the nickname in exchange for me not calling Pettersson PBP

 

[ProstheticConscience]

It just blows me away how people can watch Pettersson and Boeser enter the league and then go back to thinking that prospects usually develop like some 5-year electrician apprenticeship program at BCIT or something. Uh, no guys. What Pettersson's doing this year so far and Boeser did last year? That's what elite prospects really do, and how elite players really come into the league. Far, far more often than not star players hit early and hit hard. They don't tend to spend years bumbling around in developmental or lesser pro leagues; the players who do are much, much more likely to be role players at the NHL level if indeed they ever make it there. Go have a look at last year's top 30, 40 or 50 scorers. Tell me how many years these guys spent in the minors or juniors before making noise at the NHL level.

 

[The Drop]

So if we tank properly and grab hughes brother at the draft then next year we will have BOTH Hughes brothers duking it out for the Calder plus Pettersson and Boeser filling the back a the net PLUS Gaudette, Dahlen, Juolevi and maybe Woo/Briesy stepping up and maybe Demmer too and we could be a playoff team next year

Horvat Pettersson Boeser
Goldobin J Hughes Dahlen
Lipesic Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter

Hughes Tanev
Edler Woo
Juolevi Stecher

Demko
Markstrom

Especially when we add Erik Karlsson, Duchene and Panarin in free agency

 

[Jack Burton]

Let's keep this Tank swagger rolling

7 more goals against and a good thrashing ought to do it

 

[drivier]

Let's keep this Tank swagger rolling

7 more goals against and a good thrashing ought to do it

Why do we have to get thrashed while tanking? I mean I support a losing season for the lottery pick.. But I'm still a fan.

I'll take an exciting close game where we get no points, everyone stays healthy, and everyone has a solid (but just not good enough) game.

 

[elwin316]

Why do we have to get thrashed while tanking? I mean I support a losing season for the lottery pick.. But I'm still a fan.

I'll take an exciting close game where we get no points, everyone stays healthy, and everyone has a solid (but just not good enough) game.

This is where I'm at too. I'd prefer to lose, but I'd like to see Petterrsson/Boeser/Horvat make progress too. Giving up a bunch of goals in a losing cause is fine by me, but I'd like to see our young players have success as well. A Calder for Petterrsson and a bottom three finish would be my ideal tank. Not sure I can get on board with the scorched earth logic.