Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[Curmudgeon]

People aren't just going to become optimistic about Jim Benning being able to build a playoff team when he has shown he can't.

I guess we'll see about that. I'm pretty optimistic about some of these young players and eagerly anticipate seeing the Pettersson-Hughes combo dominate teams. Obviously no sure thing but at least it's nice to have some high-end potential talent in the system.

 

[CanaFan]

I guess it depends if you see a guy like Baertschi as a top 6 forward, whether you think prospects like Hughes, Dahlen, Gaudette, Juolevi, Lind, or Woo have significant futures with the team or whether Goldobin and Virtanen continue to progress and Tryamkin comes back. There's a big difference between significance and "this management team didn't bring anything relevant of good". Those are the moves that help teams gradually get better and I can be optimistic about and cheer for along the way.

And that's not at all to dismiss the fact they've crapped the bed with a whole host of other moves as I've posted previously across the board.

Well if we are talking meaningful moves then we should be talking significant players or players that can be a difference maker when this team is in playoffs again. Hughes would be such a player, but I don’t see any other clear examples of that. Possibly Dahlen and Gaudette but they are both TBD still and just had somewhat disappointing camps for their age. I don’t see anyone on the roster who qualifies, including Baertschi.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Well if we are talking meaningful moves then we should be talking significant players or players that can be a difference maker when this team is in playoffs again. Hughes would be such a player, but I don’t see any other clear examples of that. Possibly Dahlen and Gaudette but they are both TBD still and just had somewhat disappointing camps for their age. I don’t see anyone on the roster who qualifies, including Baertschi.

Sure and we'll see if the prospect progress but it's refreshing that they are considered to have one of the top prospect pools in the league despite some obvious gaffs and it provides us as fans with something to cheer for and be optimistic about while hoping they still end up with a top pick this year.

Next year, if Hughes can step in and make an immediate dynamic impact, I don't think they're a higher odd lottery team.

 

[SillyRabbit]

The same people in this thread arguing against tanking are the same people who will buy Pettersson jerseys and not realize that this is a caliber of player you can only get by tanking (although Benning did it unintentionally).

You’d think getting a taste of this would have everyone jumping on the tank train to try to get Hughes.

 

[CanaFan]

Sure and we'll see if the prospect progress but it's refreshing that they are considered to have one of the top prospect pools in the league despite some obvious gaffs and it provides us as fans with something to cheer for and be optimistic about while hoping they still end up with a top pick this year.

Next year, if Hughes can step in and make an immediate dynamic impact, I don't think they're a higher odd lottery team.

Sure, but any team that picks 6, 24, 23, 5, 5, and 7 in a five year span absolutely *should* pick up several significant pieces. What is disappointing is how we really haven’t acquired anything of value outside of these high picks. It’s the same failing of the Oilers 2010-2016 stretch of futility.

 

[CanaFan]

The same people in this thread arguing against tanking are the same people who will buy Pettersson jerseys and not realize that this is a caliber of player you can only get by tanking (although Benning did it unintentionally).

You’d think getting a taste of this would have everyone jumping on the tank train to try to get Hughes.

Exactly. Granted not every pick - or even most - yields a Pettersson-quality player even high in the draft but it gives you the best chance to. If we flashback to 2017, a handful of posters were coming into this thread and calling people “not true fans” or stating emphatically that a “losing culture” would set in or that there were no guarantees at the draft.

And yet here we are with a player who has the entire city mesmerized and likely will do so for the next 15 years that resulted from that (unintentional) tank. And yet without a trace of irony or self awareness those same posters are back in this thread right now saying the exact same things this year.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Sure, but any team that picks 6, 23, 5, 5, and 7 in a five year span absolutely *should* pick up several significant pieces. What is disappointing is how we really haven’t acquired anything of value outside of these high picks. It’s the same failing of the Oilers 2010-2016 stretch of futility.

Outside of the draft or just high picks? We'll see how some of the guys outside the first round turn out, who knows at this point, but I'm not one to say either way as I haven't watched any of them play in junior or college etc and any optimism I've had is based on scouting resources online and the fact it appears consistent that the Canucks prospect pool is ranked rather high.

External acquisitions like Baertschi, Goldobin, Dahlen, and Stecher as an UFA look ok or promising, and they've brought in a couple decent complimentary type guys, but some have been downright terrible and set them back. Management and ownership have truly crapped the bed with some moves.

Anyway, who knows on the Oiler part. All we can do is hope these kids come along and I think the year after next will be a better timeline to gauge whether it's "Oil rebuild V2".

 

[Curmudgeon]

The same people in this thread arguing against tanking are the same people who will buy Pettersson jerseys and not realize that this is a caliber of player you can only get by tanking (although Benning did it unintentionally).

You’d think getting a taste of this would have everyone jumping on the tank train to try to get Hughes.

Who's saying they don't want the Canucks getting the best pick possible under the circumstances? If you're integrating a Pettersson and Boeser, you face the prospect of getting better and having worse lottery odds. Maybe they should have kept Gagner and sent Pettersson to Utica?

 

[CanaFan]

Outside of the draft or just high picks? We'll see how some of the guys outside the first round turn out, who knows at this point, but I'm not one to say either way as I haven't watched any of them play in junior or college etc and any optimism I've had is based on scouting resources online and the fact it appears consistent that the Canucks prospect pool is ranked rather high.

External acquisitions like Baertschi, Goldobin, Dahlen, and Stecher as an UFA look ok or promising, and they've brought in a couple decent complimentary type guys, but some have been downright terrible and set them back. Management and ownership have truly crapped the bed with some moves.

Anyway, who knows on the Oiler part. All we can do is hope these kids come along and I think the year after next will be a better timeline to gauge whether it's "Oil rebuild V2".

Well Benning is on year 5 and outside of his 1sts there isn’t anything of value *today* and based on trajectories I don’t see much of value tomorrow either (Baertschi, Goldobin, Stecher). Baertschi is 26 and hasn’t taken a step beyond being a decent complimentary top 6 winger. Stecher is in his 3rd season and seems capped as a small but determined bottom pair D on a good team. Goldobin turned 23 today and is still a big question mark, so statistically his odds of being a core player are low. Dahlen and Gaudette might get there but for now are tbd.

It’s a pretty paltry haul for Year 5 of a GM’s tenure. Maybe some of these things change but at the moment I’m not seeing much more than what the Oilers accomplished under Tambellini and MacTavish. Boeser and Pettersson are wins and likely Hughes will be too. But that’s too little for the time and resources these guys have had so far to accomplish a rebuild.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Well Benning is on year 5 and outside of his 1sts there isn’t anything of value *today* and based on trajectories I don’t see much of value tomorrow either (Baertschi, Goldobin, Stecher). Baertschi is 26 and hasn’t taken a step beyond being a decent complimentary top 6 winger. Stecher is in his 3rd season and seems capped as a small but determined bottom pair D on a good team. Goldobin turned 23 today and is still a big question mark, so statistically his odds of being a core player are low. Dahlen and Gaudette might get there but for now are tbd.

It’s a pretty paltry haul for Year 5 of a GM’s tenure. Maybe some of these things change but at the moment I’m not seeing much more than what the Oilers accomplished under Tambellini and MacTavish. Boeser and Pettersson are wins and likely Hughes will be too. But that’s too little for the time and resources these guys have had so far to accomplish a rebuild.

Like I said, I guess we'll see. They're still at a point where they'll be near the top of the draft, which is what we want for now, but I think that will change next year. Could be wrong, just an early speculative opinion.

One thing for sure is, I will not relish or get any enjoyment out of anything embarrassing this year. I want to see Pettersson and Boeser progress, Goldobin and Virtanen too, maybe one or two of Juolevi/Dahlen/Gaudette integrated later on in the year, Hughes added at the end, and entertaining and competitive hockey while getting the best pick possible in this draft.

Problem for most will be if this occurs, a newly extended Benning could be safe for longer than some here would desire so in the event that happens, how long are people prepared to cheer against the Canucks and for embarrassing losses out of spite for Benning, 5 years?

 

[CanaFan]

Like I said, I guess we'll see. They're still at a point where they'll be near the top of the draft, which is what we want for now, but I think that will change next year. Could be wrong, just an early speculative opinion.

One thing for sure is, I will not relish or get any enjoyment out of anything embarrassing this year. I want to see Pettersson and Boeser progress, Goldobin and Virtanen too, maybe one or two of Juolevi/Dahlen/Gaudette integrated later on in the year, Hughes added at the end, and entertaining and competitive hockey while getting the best pick possible in this draft.

Problem for most will be if this occurs, a newly extended Benning could be safe for longer than some here would desire so in the event that happens, how long are people prepared to cheer against the Canucks and for embarrassing losses in spite of Benning, 5 years?

Not sure about embarrassing losses. I enjoyed last nights game, it was up-tempo, had plenty of goals, and resulted in an L. Seemed like the type of game most tankers want and enjoy.

As for wanting Benning gone, that’ll last until he’s gone which I doubt will be too much longer. While the thrill of watching Pettersson is dominating headlines at the moment, another season of watching Pouliot, Eriksson, Gudbranson, Sutter, etc flail around the ice to a 4th straight bottom 5 finish will start to impact the public perception even more. It’s one thing to start tanking to acquire some high picks, it’s another thing to be able to stop and build up an actual cup contending team. With several core pieces in place (largely from tanking), I think the time will be right to bring in a new GM with a different set of skills and strengths. A Gillis to Benning’s Nonis if you will.

 

[Carl Carlson]

That's fine, I boo them too and I've been critical of ownership and management moves as well.

As far as the defense goes, I had asked other posters previously about the defensemen that moved over the summer and which ones they would have targeted and what price would they have paid to outbid the teams that acquired them in order to upgrade what the Canucks have but never saw a response. People point out the obvious, and I'm not happy about it either, but they offer nothing up.

So which defenseman that moved over summer would you have outbid the other team for and with what?

The FA class for Dmen was pretty crap this summer. I might have gone after John Moore, he's decent still in his 20's and wouldn't cost much. Maybe Ian Cole as well for same reasons. Neither would blow the doors off but better than MDZ or Pouliot and wouldn't break the bank. I would have much preferred that over what we did in FA this summer. I would have liked us to explore trade options with other teams for a strong top 4 Dman. Yeah we don't have much too offer teams for trades but you'd think with a competent management team they'd be able to conjure up something.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm not saying it won't but seemingly wanting it to is another thing.



I get it, negativity is clearly your schtick. You've noticeably refrained from acknowledging any positives resulting from the Pettersson arrival and initial impact as one example, most of your posts are management related and you're not entirely wrong on those as I have posted similarly myself, but you have minimal if any balance to your posting history, it's almost all toxic, and as a result, you pretty much put out a vibe that you're not even a Canucks fan.

Yes, it's in their best interest to lose and get the highest pick they can but it can't occur without progression in at least some areas and as fans we should at least have something positive to cheer for and gain optimism from.

[mod]

Negativity isn’t my schtick. Negativity is a realistic reflection of the current state of affairs with the Canucks. What else would you call it?

Does Pettersson look good? Absolutely. But what did Benning do this year? He went out and locked up 2 more veterans to long-term contracts with NTC’s. He replaced the Sedins with Beagle and Roussel, and gave them a lot of money for the types of players they are. He also brought back the same defense.

I couldn’t care less about progression right now. The mission of team tank has but one primary goal: new management. And for me at this point I would say at all costs.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Sure and we'll see if the prospect progress but it's refreshing that they are considered to have one of the top prospect pools in the league despite some obvious gaffs and it provides us as fans with something to cheer for and be optimistic about while hoping they still end up with a top pick this year.

Next year, if Hughes can step in and make an immediate dynamic impact, I don't think they're a higher odd lottery team.

Except they have one of the top prospect pools in the league because they’ve been so bad for so long, and have barely graduated anyone. If you rank teams by the quality of U-23 players the Canucks aren’t anywhere near the top.

 

[me2]

Y2K isn't negative, he's realistic. The realistic outcome is negative. People being excessively positive about this team under Benning can only do so by ignoring his history here.

 

[infinitemile]

Like I said, I guess we'll see. They're still at a point where they'll be near the top of the draft, which is what we want for now, but I think that will change next year. Could be wrong, just an early speculative opinion.

One thing for sure is, I will not relish or get any enjoyment out of anything embarrassing this year. I want to see Pettersson and Boeser progress, Goldobin and Virtanen too, maybe one or two of Juolevi/Dahlen/Gaudette integrated later on in the year, Hughes added at the end, and entertaining and competitive hockey while getting the best pick possible in this draft.

Problem for most will be if this occurs, a newly extended Benning could be safe for longer than some here would desire so in the event that happens, how long are people prepared to cheer against the Canucks and for embarrassing losses out of spite for Benning, 5 years?

It's honestly sad that you people have convinced yourselves that anti-Benning people aren't fans of the team. You're so desperate for positivity that you'll ignore the glaring missteps and dangerous decision-making that has made this rebuild so painful to watch.

I don't cheer against this team because Benning's running it. I cheer against it because that's the best thing for the team right now. We need at least 2 more top talent impact players at a bare minimum before we should even be thinking about starting to add in holes to the fourth line. Hughes looks great but we need at least one more top piece on the right side because OJ's not gonna cut it. And another elite forward should differentiate us from the pack as well.

In the meantime Benning has anchored us to several painful contracts like LE21, JB83, BS20, EG44 and set us back multiple times like the McCann trade and Bonino trade. Not to mention not trading Hamhuis or Vrbata. The team he has assembled and promised would scrape us into the playoffs is the worst in the league. He hasn't acquired draft picks. His performance has been embarrassing and in return I want to see his veterans get pummeled until he's fired.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Like I said, I guess we'll see. They're still at a point where they'll be near the top of the draft, which is what we want for now, but I think that will change next year. Could be wrong, just an early speculative opinion.

One thing for sure is, I will not relish or get any enjoyment out of anything embarrassing this year. I want to see Pettersson and Boeser progress, Goldobin and Virtanen too, maybe one or two of Juolevi/Dahlen/Gaudette integrated later on in the year, Hughes added at the end, and entertaining and competitive hockey while getting the best pick possible in this draft.

Problem for most will be if this occurs, a newly extended Benning could be safe for longer than some here would desire so in the event that happens, how long are people prepared to cheer against the Canucks and for embarrassing losses out of spite for Benning, 5 years?

See, here we go again. Oh yeah, we just hate Benning for no reason, right? You think the fact the team keeps losing anyway is totally beside the point?

We are spiteful because Benning is a terrible gm who has sent the Canucks to the bottom of the league while trying to ice a competitive team and failing.

I mean, how hard is that to understand? No, cheering for losses isn't fun. I wish I didn't. Really. I wish I had some glimmer of faith in Benning and Weisbrod but I don't. All they've shown is they know how to create a team bad enough to get high draft picks. A couple of fluke successes in Boeser and Pettersson shouldn't justify them remaining because:

1. I don't believe they can assess talent and certainly not pro talent well enough to assemble a good team,
2. I don't believe Benning can make enough good trades that will improve the team,
3. I don't believe they can negotiate contracts well enough within the salary cap,
4. I don't believe players will be properly diagnosed and treated when they get injured,

...and those are issues I don't think will go away. I didn't think these things when Benning took over, but I've reached these conclusions based on what I've seen and heard from them since 2014.

As for the other draft picks, well hey, tell me how they turned out from the 2014, 2015 and 2016 draft years. Go on, tell me.

 

[M2Beezy]

So if we tank properly and grab hughes brother at the draft then next year we will have BOTH Hughes brothers duking it out for the Calder plus Pettersson and Boeser filling the back a the net PLUS Gaudette, Dahlen, Juolevi and maybe Woo/Briesy stepping up and maybe Demmer too and we could be a playoff team next year

Horvat Pettersson Boeser
Goldobin J Hughes Dahlen
Lipesic Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter

Hughes Tanev
Edler Woo
Juolevi Stecher

Demko
Markstrom

 

[megatron]

So if we tank properly and grab hughes brother at the draft then next year we will have BOTH Hughes brothers duking it out for the Calder plus Pettersson and Boeser filling the back a the net PLUS Gaudette, Dahlen, Juolevi and maybe Woo/Briesy stepping up and maybe Demmer too and we could be a playoff team next year

Horvat Pettersson Boeser
Goldobin J Hughes Dahlen
Lipesic Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter

Hughes Tanev
Edler Woo
Juolevi Stecher

Demko
Markstrom

sound good, but I have a feeling you will always be looking to next year and your payoff will never come. We won't make the playoffs this year, and next year when it'll look like we're not making the playoffs you'll say..... NEXT year. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with being optimistic, just don't think playoffs will be in our cards for the foreseeable future (basing this primarily upon our current and projected D).

 

[lawrence]

had a dream...

the dream was we drafted from the USHL Alex Turcotte but at what number I don't know.

 

[M2Beezy]

had a dream...

the dream was we drafted from the USHL Alex Turcotte but at what number I don't know.

Hes dropped in some lists. Even outside the top 10. Kakko/Hughes....... OR BUST

 

[lawrence]

Hes dropped in some lists. Even outside the top 10. Kakko/Hughes....... OR BUST

outside of those 2 there are still a handful of elite players.

Alex Turcotte and a russian by the name Vasili Podkolzin have elite offensive potential.

Cozens and Krebs 6'4ish centremens from the WHL, elite offensive skills, there are some talent after Kakko Hughes.

 

[Zombotron]

and a russian

Oh, now you've done it

 

[lawrence]

Oh, now you've done it

forgot to add he has 2 more years with his current team right now which will drop his draft stock.

 

[rypper]

Having a highly ranked prospect pool doesn't really mean shit, if we don't develop the players so they can make it to the next level.

I mean in training camp/preseason did any of our highly rated prospect pool look like they are going to be impact players? Pettersson aside.