Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[M2Beezy]

Having a highly ranked prospect pool doesn't really mean ****, if we don't develop the players so they can make it to the next level.

I mean in training camp/preseason did any of our highly rated prospect pool look like they are going to be impact players? Pettersson aside.

Gaudette, Dahlen, Hughes, Woo, Brassard, Demko, Dipietro, Jasek, all have good chances to be

 

[pgj98m3]

Gaudette, Dahlen, Hughes, Woo, Brassard, Demko, Dipietro, Jasek, all have good chances to be

But none of those demonstrated NHL skills...granted we still need to see Hughes.

 

[Melvin]

Gaudette, Dahlen, Hughes, Woo, Brassard, Demko, Dipietro, Jasek, all have good chances to be

No they don't.

 

[timw33]

No they don't.

Absolutely LOL'ing at Jasek and Brassard, let alone everyone other than Hughes.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Gaudette, Dahlen, Hughes, Woo, Brassard, Demko, Dipietro, Jasek, all have good chances to be

Your heart is in the right place but prospects don’t often pan out with such a high success rate. There’s a very good chance that atleast a few (or more than few) guys that you listed will not pan out.

From that list - I say Hughes, Gaudette, Dahlen, Woo, and one of Demko/Dipietro have a realistic shot. Jasek and Brassard will be working at BC Ferries in a few years.

Hughes will make it for sure. As for the other 5 guys? 2-3 of those guys won’t pan out if history is of any indication.

So - realistically, you’re looking at Hughes + 2, or Hughes + 3.

 

[Melvin]

Absolutely LOL'ing at Jasek and Brassard, let alone everyone other than Hughes.

It would be funny if it weren't so frustrating.

 

[Horse McHindu]

@y2kcanucks ,

Earlier you mentioned that the acquisition of Del Zotto has held back Hutton? Do you honestly believe that? Party boy smiley face Hutton? The guy who doesn’t take his craft seriously? Really?

Hutton earned his spot in 2015 when he made the team, but has not grown since then. Numerous rumors about his lackadaisical attitude and his fitness. It’s not like the Canucks are asking him to outplay Duncan Keith for a spot. It’s Michael freakin’ Del Zotto. If “smiley face” Hutton can’t beat out Del Zotto despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so, then how good is Hutton really?

Yes - Hutton worked hard this off season and has been given a clean slate. We will see what he does when he draws into the lineup.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Hmmmm - if i read the comments correctly, they are suggesting the leafs never traded first round picks. the following quote disagrees:

Actually, ALL of us acknowledged that Toronto traded 1sts during that time. Where me and @CanaFan disagreed on, was Toronto’s trading of firsts (with a plural), being a parallel to the Gudbranson trade (since McCann was a 1st and a 33rd pick is pretty close to being a first).

My arguments were as follows:

1) Toronto hadn’t been a playoff team for many years and so trading two firsts for a player was a little on the illogical side.

2) The Canucks has made the playoffs in 2015 and we’re competing for a playoff spot for much of 2016 (even at the deadline, they were in or near playoff contention) before they got decimated by injuries in March. Therefore - Benning attempting to trade for Lucic (2015) and Subban (2016) were the correct moves to make, as it’s important for a management group to support their players when the players earn that trust (and yes - I do concede the fact that trading for Lucic, in retrospect, would have been an AWFUL move).

3) There is zero parallel as far as the Gudbranson trade and Kessel trade is concerned. It’s a ridiculous - and possibly trollish - suggestion by @CanaFan. For one thing - the Canucks already had a good idea as to what they had in McCann (semi-decent prospect) after having observed him in a Canucks uniform for one year. It was quite clear that McCann, although talented, wasn’t going to be the next Joe Sakic, and so Benning moved him to acquire a young player (short term and long term asset) that could possibly help fill a MAJOR organizational need.

Toronto, despite being a bottom feeding team for a number of years, traded two first round picks (picks that could still end up being high first round picks) and a 2nd for an asset.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Progression is young players being successfully developed and integrated into the team. Do you really think a team can finish near the bottom of the league for several years and accumulate a stable of good young players without them getting better as a team as they add those players into the mix? You're saying outside of Pettersson and Boeser, every other player they've drafted and brought in is of little or no value? That's outlandish.

You don't have a coach who is fond developing young players, preferably playing veterans to win meaningless games. He did it last year, he did it in Utica the year before.

About your question, we had a bunch of good picks (wasting a lot of them in moronic trades), got a good stable of young players and we are one of the worst teams in the NIL last three years.

And outside of Boeser and Pettersson, would you receive an amazing offer for any other player beside Hughes, who is a fresh high 1st round pick?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

@y2kcanucks ,

Earlier you mentioned that the acquisition of Del Zotto has held back Hutton? Do you honestly believe that? Party boy smiley face Hutton? The guy who doesn’t take his craft seriously? Really?

Hutton earned his spot in 2015 when he made the team, but has not grown since then. Numerous rumors about his lackadaisical attitude and his fitness. It’s not like the Canucks are asking him to outplay Duncan Keith for a spot. It’s Michael freakin’ Del Zotto. If “smiley face” Hutton can’t beat out Del Zotto despite being given plenty of opportunities to do so, then how good is Hutton really?

Yes - Hutton worked hard this off season and has been given a clean slate. We will see what he does when he draws into the lineup.

He outplays Del Zotto when they put him in the lineup.

Hard to do from the press box.

 

[Horse McHindu]

He outplays Del Zotto when they put him in the lineup.

Do you honestly believe this to be true?

And even if you can make an argument for that, what do you think is more likely?

1) Green has an illogical hatred of Ben Hutton.
2) Green feels that there is more there with Hutton, but feels that Hutton isn’t giving it his all.....and is trying to send a message to him to step up and be the guy that he is capable of being.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Do you honestly believe this to be true?

And even if you can make an argument for that, what do you think is more likely?

1) Green has an illogical hatred of Ben Hutton.
2) Green feels that there is more there with Hutton, but feels that Hutton isn’t giving it his all.....and is trying to send a message to him to step up and be the guy that he is capable of being.

I got a feeling that Green likes vets.

I think he might have asked management to fill the bottom 6 with vets.

I think he dislikes Hutton. For what reason I dont know.
But Hutton is a better hockey player then Pouliot, Del Zotto and obviously Gudbranson.

 

[Horse McHindu]

He asked management to fill the bottom 6 with overpaid vets.

Source? Also - if that was the case, then how do you explain Motte being chosen over Gagner? Or Schaller being a healthy scratch while Leipsic drawing in?

I think he dislikes Hutton. For what reason I dont know.

Do you think it’s possible that Green feels Hutton isn’t taking his craft seriously enough......and that Hutton has more to offer than he’s been showing?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Source? Also - if that was the case, then how do you explain Motte being chosen over Gagner? Or Schaller being a healthy scratch while Leipsic drawing in?

I can't find a source. I guess I always assumed he would have a say in FA signings. Could be wrong.

Why do YOU think they went out and signed Roussel, Beagle and Schaller?

I was positively surprised they put Gagner on waivers. This is the first time I can remember this management owning up to a mistake they made and trying to fix it.

Do you think it’s possible that Green feels Hutton isn’t taking his craft seriously enough......and that Hutton has more to offer than he’s been showing?

Your guess is as good as mine. We both know that he was giving Hutton heavy minutes early last year and then suddenly Hutton was in the dog house and has yet to get out.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I can't find a source. I guess I always assumed he would have a say in FA signings. Could be wrong.

You could also be right, but it’s best to not speculate just in case it isn’t. That’s why maybe you should have said, “I think he might haveasked Management to......”

Why do YOU think they went out and signed Roussel, Beagle and Schaller?

A few reasons:

1) Give the Canucks some depth. The Canucks were losing a LOT of man games to injury and didn’t have the necessary depth to stay competitive when they had injuries.

2) Have a tougher and grittier bottom 6

3) Allow our younger and skilled players to get more offensive zone starts and play in more situations that are compatible to their skill sets.

4) Leadership. I know many people on here scoff at #4, but this is a thing. Guys like Beagle have been in a championship locker room and played key roles. A guy like Beagle also has excellent on ice and off ice habits and can advise the kids on a lot of these good on ice and off ice habits. I believe it to be a huge asset. Others on here? Maybe they think it’s a joke and that’s fine. That’s their opinion.

I know one issue that people have is that these long term expensive contracts have held some kids back (I.e. Eriksson/Sutter), but I’ve yet to see evidence of this. Not a single kid in my eyes has been “held back” due to the vets. Even in the future, if you look at the Canucks’ cap situation and who will come off the books (and which RFA’s will need to be re-upped), I don’t see this being a problem.

I was positively surprised they put Gagner on waivers. This is the first time I can remember this management owning up to a mistake they made and trying to fix it.

And honestly for me? I wasn’t surprised at all. It’s been management’s mantra since Day One: “If a kid EARNS his way onto the team, room will be created. Motte, Goldobin, and Leipsic flat out earned their stripes, and so bye bye Gagner and sit the f*** down Schaller. Boom.

Your guess is as good as mine. We both know that he was giving Hutton heavy minutes early last year and then suddenly Hutton was in the dog house and has yet to get out.

He was giving Hutton big minutes because of the talent, and then realized that Hutton didn’t have the fitness (which to me, is an example of a player that isn’t taking his craft seriously).[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You could also be right, but it’s best to not speculate just in case it isn’t. That’s why maybe you should have said, “I think he might haveasked Management to......”

I agree 100%.

I honestly thought I read it from somewhere. Could be Eliot Friedman's podcast too.

Infact I'll edit it.

And honestly for me? I wasn’t surprised at all. It’s been management’s mantra since Day One: “If a kid EARNS his way onto the team, room will be created. Motte, Goldobin, and Leipsic flat out earned their stripes, and so bye bye Gagner and sit the **** down Schaller. Boom.

Im sure you've discussed the Stetcher case where this certainly wasnt true.

We have a small sample size.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I agree 100%.

I honestly thought I read it from somewhere. Could be Eliot Friedman's podcast too.

Infact I'll edit it.



Im sure you've discussed the Stetcher case where this certainly wasnt true.

We have a small sample size.

The edit is much appreciated.

Remind me about Stecher again? I can’t seem to recall what I said.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Remind me about Stecher again? I can’t seem to recall what I said.

I dont know if you did.

Stetcher outplayed vets, got sent to minors anyways and then got called up when an injury happened.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I dont know if you did.

Stetcher outplayed vets, got sent to minors anyways and then got called up when an injury happened.

It’s possible. I don’t remember saying that or even happening. In any case, good on Stecher for manning up, and proving management wrong and earning his stripes if he did get sent down unfairly.

Hopefully, Hutton does the same here and proves to Green that he’s by far the 3rd best dman on the team (which is what I think Green thinks Hutton can be.....which is why Green is riding Hutton’s ass pretty hard I think)..

I think Tryamkin is who you are thinking about (Tree being unfairly sent down when he first got here). I agree with you on that. Tree got shafted a bit, but kudos to him for proving both coaching and management wrong. Why Tryamkin decided to act like a whiny bitch and go home after that is beyond me, but I think he’ll come back.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It’s possible. I don’t remember saying that or even happening. In any case, good on Stecher for manning up, and proving management wrong and earning his stripes if he did get sent down unfairly.

Hopefully, Hutton does the same here and proves to Green that he’s by far the 3rd best dman on the team (which is what I think Green thinks Hutton can be.....which is why Green is riding Hutton’s ass pretty hard I think)..

I think Tryamkin is who you are thinking about (Tree being unfairly sent down when he first got here). I agree with you on that. Tree got shafted a bit, but kudos to him for proving both coaching and management wrong. Why Tryamkin decided to act like a whiny ***** and go home after that is beyond me, but I think he’ll come back.

No no it was Troy.

Also Im not saying you said anything about it, necessarily. Just think youve seen the discussion of that piece of history here.

 

[Horse McHindu]

No no it was Troy.

Also Im not saying you said anything about it, necessarily. Just think youve seen the discussion of that piece of history here.

Cool, fair enough.

I just think at the end of the day, if the coaches call you out (just as they are doing with Hutton now), there are two obvious choices:

1) Man up
2) piss off

If the rumours are true, then we all know what Hutton’s demeanor has been at practice and also off the ice. Hopefully, he uses this opportunity to mature and grow. I liked what he did with his fitness this off season. I think Hutton got the message and we’ll continue to see some growth from him. I look forward to seeing Hutton make the most of his opportunity when he draws back in.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Cool, fair enough.

I just think at the end of the day, if the coaches call you out (just as they are doing with Hutton now), there are two obvious choices:

1) Man up
2) piss off

If the rumours are true, then we all know what Hutton’s demeanor has been at practice and also off the ice. Hopefully, he uses this opportunity to mature and grow. I liked what he did with his fitness this off season. I think Hutton got the message and we’ll continue to see some growth from him. I look forward to seeing Hutton make the most of his opportunity when he draws back in.

What are the rumors and what are your sources for said rumors?

 

[Horse McHindu]

What are the rumors and what are your sources for said rumors?

It was on Team 1040 somewhere last year (Price and Sekeres? Botchford?). I honestly can’t remember. I think Green has hinted about Hutton’s work ethic (or lack thereof) in some interviews but I’m not entirety sure.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It was on Team 1040 somewhere last year (Price and Sekeres? Botchford?). I honestly can’t remember. I think Green has hinted about Hutton’s work ethic (or lack thereof) in some interviews but I’m not entirety sure.

So its the same thing probably that I've heard. That he is not the most conditioned athlete in the league.

 

[CanaFan]

Actually, ALL of us acknowledged that Toronto traded 1sts during that time. Where me and @CanaFan disagreed on, was Toronto’s trading of firsts (with a plural), being a parallel to the Gudbranson trade (since McCann was a 1st and a 33rd pick is pretty close to being a first).

My arguments were as follows:

1) Toronto hadn’t been a playoff team for many years and so trading two firsts for a player was a little on the illogical side.

2) The Canucks has made the playoffs in 2015 and we’re competing for a playoff spot for much of 2016 (even at the deadline, they were in or near playoff contention) before they got decimated by injuries in March. Therefore - Benning attempting to trade for Lucic (2015) and Subban (2016) were the correct moves to make, as it’s important for a management group to support their players when the players earn that trust (and yes - I do concede the fact that trading for Lucic, in retrospect, would have been an AWFUL move).

3) There is zero parallel as far as the Gudbranson trade and Kessel trade is concerned. It’s a ridiculous - and possibly trollish - suggestion by @CanaFan. For one thing - the Canucks already had a good idea as to what they had in McCann (semi-decent prospect) after having observed him in a Canucks uniform for one year. It was quite clear that McCann, although talented, wasn’t going to be the next Joe Sakic, and so Benning moved him to acquire a young player (short term and long term asset) that could possibly help fill a MAJOR organizational need.

Toronto, despite being a bottom feeding team for a number of years, traded two first round picks (picks that could still end up being high first round picks) and a 2nd for an asset.

McCann was 19 and had just played his rookie season in the NHL. You of all people are going with “we had a pretty good idea of what we had”? That’s rich considering the miles of rope you give every Canuck prospect and young player with “but it’s too early to tell”. But with McCann his upside is known? Lol talk about borderline trollish.

The trade is very close in structure, though obviously not in value because Kessel was a star winger and Gudbranson is a barely-NHL quality bottom pair defenseman. So ya, the value is not gonna be exactly the same Sherlock. It was still a 19 year old rookie plus a high 2nd for a player intended to help us compete for playoffs immediately. That’s the parallel and it’s pretty damn easy to see.