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Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

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Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
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Armourboy said:
You could, but then again it's not your money nor are you working daily with those that are giving you that money. It's really easy for us to stand here and say we should just give some player the money, but it's not coming out of our pocket. We also are a cap team now, which means every little bit you can save matters. 400-500k isn't much in the grand scheme, but it is the difference in being able to offer Forsberg 8.5 vs 8 million. It's also the difference in being able to bring a guy up or being able to run a deeper bench through the year. If he continues to grow and perform he will get what he is looking for, whether that is with us or someone else.
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We have room to pay him around $3.2M this season while running a full 23-man roster, so arguing about the 400-500k like it's THAT crucial a commodity isn't really warranted. *IF* he was demanding $3M per season, then we'd be in that situation. But undercutting him to $1.35M is just being unnecessarily and antagonistically stingy relative to our current Cap situation.

Anyhow, it'll be over today, so let's see where they end up.
 
101st_fan

101st_fan

I taught Yoda
Oct 22, 2005
14,416
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Near where sand and waves meet.
Porter Stoutheart said:
We have room to pay him around $3.2M this season while running a full 23-man roster, so arguing about the 400-500k like it's THAT crucial a commodity isn't really warranted. *IF* he was demanding $3M per season, then we'd be in that situation. But undercutting him to $1.35M is just being unnecessarily and antagonistically stingy relative to our current Cap situation.

Anyhow, it'll be over today, so let's see where they end up.
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$1.35 mil is setting an artificially low arbitration number. It's the way arbitration goes. In the hearing room it isn't a negotiation ... it's an argument where a 3rd party then makes a decision. That is the path Trenin, not the team, chose. Any player asking for arbitration needs to accept that their choice has the potential for hurt feelings.

For all of the talk about Poile lowballing offers he seems to get players to agree to deals.
 

David Singleton

Registered User
Jun 23, 2005
1,819
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Dickson, TN
101st_fan said:
$1.35 mil is setting an artificially low arbitration number. It's the way arbitration goes. In the hearing room it isn't a negotiation ... it's an argument where a 3rd party then makes a decision. That is the path Trenin, not the team, chose. Any player asking for arbitration needs to accept that their choice has the potential for hurt feelings.

For all of the talk about Poile lowballing offers he seems to get players to agree to deals.
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While I agree that 1.34 is an "artificially low" number, I don't feel that 2.4 is an "artificially high" number on Trenin's part. Trenin's team also has to know that the odds are decent that decision will be somewhere closer to the middle of the two numbers versus being on one extreme or the other.

Makes me curious about Poile's actual last offer to Trenin, both in terms of salary and term.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
16,062
12,511
David Singleton said:
While I agree that 1.34 is an "artificially low" number, I don't feel that 2.4 is an "artificially high" number on Trenin's part. Trenin's team also has to know that the odds are decent that decision will be somewhere closer to the middle of the two numbers versus being on one extreme or the other.

Makes me curious about Poile's actual last offer to Trenin, both in terms of salary and term.
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I feel like $2.4M would be "slightly generous, but fair". Especially if there was term. But it's not just completely off the mark like $1.35M is.

Either way, though, since it's going to the hearing, I don't think it matters at this point. For all that Poile has knocked everything out of the park this summer up to now, he has this thing about arbitration. Maybe most NHL GMs do. Probably they don't like having terms dictated to them, and don't like that they don't have the ultimate control over things. But I will assume Trenin is a goner at some point, even if he gets awarded a 1-yr team-friendly deal. By the time it goes this far, the bridge has been burned with Poile. He wanted things done a certain way, and they weren't done that way. He's not going to make an exception for a 3rd line forward, even if it's a pretty good 3rd line forward who we like and who fits our team very nicely. Trenin was very well within his rights to go this route, but it's going to lead to him playing somewhere else.
 

Olderfan

Registered User
Jul 3, 2019
517
441
Porter Stoutheart said:
I feel like $2.4M would be "slightly generous, but fair". Especially if there was term. But it's not just completely off the mark like $1.35M is.

Either way, though, since it's going to the hearing, I don't think it matters at this point. For all that Poile has knocked everything out of the park this summer up to now, he has this thing about arbitration. Maybe most NHL GMs do. Probably they don't like having terms dictated to them, and don't like that they don't have the ultimate control over things. But I will assume Trenin is a goner at some point, even if he gets awarded a 1-yr team-friendly deal. By the time it goes this far, the bridge has been burned with Poile. He wanted things done a certain way, and they weren't done that way. He's not going to make an exception for a 3rd line forward, even if it's a pretty good 3rd line forward who we like and who fits our team very nicely. Trenin was very well within his rights to go this route, but it's going to lead to him playing somewhere else.
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Arbitration is one of those necessary contractual terms that, if activated by the player or the team, turns into a negative encounter for both. So this is a downer and restoration of trust is now only a hope. In this particular case, that is doubtful. This will be hard for both parties to achieve. My expectation is that he’ll be gone.
 

herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
7,861
5,725
West Virginia
David Singleton said:
While I agree that 1.34 is an "artificially low" number, I don't feel that 2.4 is an "artificially high" number on Trenin's part. Trenin's team also has to know that the odds are decent that decision will be somewhere closer to the middle of the two numbers versus being on one extreme or the other.

Makes me curious about Poile's actual last offer to Trenin, both in terms of salary and term.
Click to expand...
I feel like 2.4 per on a 1 year contract is a tad much but wouldn’t be shocking. It would be more acceptable on a 2-3 year deal whereas I see 1.34 per as more of a 1 year prove it type deal. It’s like both sides got the term switched for the contract $
 
101st_fan

101st_fan

I taught Yoda
Oct 22, 2005
14,416
5,687
Near where sand and waves meet.
David Singleton said:
While I agree that 1.34 is an "artificially low" number, I don't feel that 2.4 is an "artificially high" number on Trenin's part. Trenin's team also has to know that the odds are decent that decision will be somewhere closer to the middle of the two numbers versus being on one extreme or the other.

Makes me curious about Poile's actual last offer to Trenin, both in terms of salary and term.
Click to expand...

If Trenin is entrenched with a one year ask then $2.4mil when this same process happens again is high considering he will likely ask for another raise again next summer. A one year deal for Trenin only complicates next summer's RFA headache.

Of course, since he asked for arbitration, the team picks the term.
 

herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
7,861
5,725
West Virginia
Armourboy said:
Pretty close to that. If I was a betting man Poile probably offered him close to that on like a 5-6 year deal. Trenin probably wants the chance to up his value before signing the longer term deal which is why he went with 1 year.
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I mean he has to realize that unless he proves himself indispensable after a 1 year contract he likely wouldn’t be in Nashville afterwards as a cap casualty.
 
101st_fan

101st_fan

I taught Yoda
Oct 22, 2005
14,416
5,687
Near where sand and waves meet.
Daunic says two years but has no clue why. If he gave hockey 1/10th the attention that he gives to baseball stats he could be a decent
BigFatCat999 said:
YUP, so we wait 48 hrs. Daunic says it's going to be a 2 yr contract. AAV unknown.
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Daunic mentions the two years but has zero clue why that is the case. If he paid 1/10th as much attention to hockey as he does to baseball stats then he could become a decent NHL broadcaster.

His parents should sue whatever they drank on the night of his creation.
 
Porter Stoutheart

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
16,062
12,511
Armourboy said:
I seem to recall the team has 48 hours after the hearing to make a decision but I doubt it takes that long. Even if he get what he asks for dollars wise they will accept it.
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The arbitrator has to decide within 48hrs. In this case everything about the decision is binding I believe, it won’t meet any walk-away threshold. So there isn’t anything for the team or player to do.

Of course our media, in August no less, who knows when we’ll actually hear what happened. :sarcasm:
 
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Olderfan

Registered User
Jul 3, 2019
517
441
Porter Stoutheart said:
The arbitrator has to decide within 48hrs. In this case everything about the decision is binding I believe, it won’t meet any walk-away threshold. So there isn’t anything for the team or player to do.

Of course our media, in August no less, who knows when we’ll actually hear what happened. :sarcasm:
Click to expand...
Try TSN. They’ll know.
 
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Olderfan

Registered User
Jul 3, 2019
517
441
This arbitration must be very seriously awry. It was the only one scheduled for a hearing that hasn’t been settled(thus far). There were none last year according to published reports. There was apparently only 1 in the prior year. These have become few and far between as almost all get settled and have just been place holders. So they must have been miles apart on actual offers and counter-offers notwithstanding the arbitration meeting numbers we’ve heard. Serious stuff that likely resulted in animosity from both parties. I really regret this.
 
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Armourboy

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
20,646
12,349
Shelbyville, TN
Olderfan said:
This arbitration must be very seriously awry. It was the only one scheduled for a hearing that hasn’t been settled(thus far). There were none last year according to published reports. There was apparently only 1 in the prior year. These have become few and far between as almost all get settled and have just been place holders. So they must have been miles apart on actual offers and counter-offers notwithstanding the arbitration meeting numbers we’ve heard. Serious stuff that likely resulted in animosity from both parties. I really regret this.
Click to expand...
It's hard to know with Trenin just exactly what he is looking for because we haven't really heard anything. Could just be a case where he isn't wanting to accept anything long term so Poile may be figuring he will just get him as long as he can for as cheap as he can. It's all just weird cause usually its the player that is trying to get directly to UFA and its the team that is taking whatever they can to keep him a RFA. Nothing with Trenin contract wise has been easy though so who knows.
 
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