Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Viqsi]

Id be ok with trading saros. Saros still has a pretty good GAA and SV%. Hes just outside the top 10 (minimum 20 games played) in sv%. Nashville is 6th worst team in shots against per game and 3rd worst team in goals for per game. So hes doing pretty well considering he gets shelled consistently and has no goal support. I bet a team like columbus would give alot to have that kind of goaltending. Wed probably have to take elvis back but thatd only increase the return. Elvis minds the net until Askarov usurps him.

I think the idea here is going to be focusing on Tarasov rather than paying a fortune for Saros.

 

[Olderfan]

Honestly I’d trade Fabbro and Sissons first. Fabbro is obviously the odd man out of the top 4, and he’s getting a raise which we can’t afford. Id let 2 of Jankowski, Smith and Sissons go to we have too many of those guys and not enough skill. I use Jeannot and Trenin as a 4th line grinder line I bring up Evangelista and Tomasino and run 3 skill lines

Sissons, Jeannot and Trenin as a 4th line grinder line was and is a good idea. We expected too much, too soon for Jeannot and it’s affected his game. Trenin is Trenin; unfulfilled promise. Jankowski and Smith are role players for only a very good team, not a bad one.

 

[glenngineer]

Something that is interesting to me about what it takes to be a professional athlete and the difference between elite talent and lower level talent or NHL vs AHL is how important it is to be able to combine skill-sets into a useful commodity.

As I've said several times, I haven't gotten to really watch a lot of game this season but over the holiday break I've been watching. And, something I've noticed and commented on in the last GDT is that it's rather odd how many high danger chances Smith is in position for, whether it's the breakaways (that we all see in the highlight packages) or the point blank wide open shots he gets from the slot, he seems to be in good position but can't score to save his life at this level. Well, after some smartass comments in that GDT I actually looked at some of his stats. Turns out, his AHL point numbers aren't bad and that's probably because he has a knack for getting high danger chances AND can beat AHL goalies. Looking at that it's conceivable that management was hoping for a 4th line grinder/ PK specialist that could put 7-10 pucks in the net per season but it turns out he just can't beat a NHL goalie.

Conversely, you have a player like Tolvanen, who has a NHL goalie beating shot but can't find any open ice to use it. We had all hoped he'd figure out how to get into the quiet areas of the ice and utilize that shot but it just never happened. Sure he plays hard and throws his body around making him an potential 4th line grinder with upside, not much different from Smith, but I'm sure he was hoping for another opportunity somewhere else so he was waived.

You give either one of those players that little bit of skill from the other person to round out their game and they are difference makers. Just amazes me to look at two players on one team that could be more if they just had that one talent the other one has but also can't utilize fully.

Great observation and I think it's a failure of our scouts, drafting, whatever we do when evaluating players. It's as if we look at specific roles as opposed to multiple roles a guy can fill.

As an example, other than Granlund, name a forward that plays ES, PP and SH? Now think of Granlund in either of these phases of the game and while he's a good to very good player, he's not exceptional at any of them. His compete level is one of the best on the team but from a results perspective, the numbers just aren't there.

Let's look at Boston for a moment. Bergeron and Marchand. Both can play all three phases. I'd say they are great to exceptional in all three phases.

Back to us for a moment, in our history, have we ever had a player like that? I'd say Sully was as close to that as we ever had. I wouldn't put him on their level but he was stellar.

Why do we not draft, develop, sign, trade for guys that are 3 tier players for a lack of better term? We seem to have our 4 lines that we love to equally roll. We have guys that play ES/PP or ES/SH and only Granlund doing all three. I want my best guys on the ice in all phases of the game. I want them getting big minutes. We don't have guys putting up big numbers year in and year out because no is getting more than 18 a night. Give them an additional 2 minutes a night and you'll see better production.

 

[glenngineer]

A few quick thoughts.

Jeannot is not playing his normal physical game night in and night out. Since he obliterated Schmidt in Winnipeg, he has hardly laid a body on anyone. His game is to wreak havoc out there. When he's doing that, he's opening up the ice for his linemates and himself. When he's not, we see the result. Unleash the beast.

Winnipeg was a 63 point team last year. We were a 64 point team. They had a better goal differential, 16 to 2. They didn't make any major moves, have been playing without Ehlers, brought in Perfetti and made a coaching change. Seems to have had the desired effect.

With that in mind, two paths we can go, make a coaching change and hope it works. Overhaul everything, GM and entire staff. Leaving it up to Poile to make trades and major improvements to this team's fortune is never going to happen. I don't have faith that he can make it work. Nevermind then, we have one option.

 

[Kat Predator]

Great observation and I think it's a failure of our scouts, drafting, whatever we do when evaluating players. It's as if we look at specific roles as opposed to multiple roles a guy can fill.

As an example, other than Granlund, name a forward that plays ES, PP and SH? Now think of Granlund in either of these phases of the game and while he's a good to very good player, he's not exceptional at any of them. His compete level is one of the best on the team but from a results perspective, the numbers just aren't there.

Let's look at Boston for a moment. Bergeron and Marchand. Both can play all three phases. I'd say they are great to exceptional in all three phases.

Back to us for a moment, in our history, have we ever had a player like that? I'd say Sully was as close to that as we ever had. I wouldn't put him on their level but he was stellar.

Why do we not draft, develop, sign, trade for guys that are 3 tier players for a lack of better term? We seem to have our 4 lines that we love to equally roll. We have guys that play ES/PP or ES/SH and only Granlund doing all three. I want my best guys on the ice in all phases of the game. I want them getting big minutes. We don't have guys putting up big numbers year in and year out because no is getting more than 18 a night. Give them an additional 2 minutes a night and you'll see better production.

Lavi did what you are suggesting here. 1st, 3rd, and 4th line forwards were all of the PK. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line forwards were all on the PP units. At ES, he wanted to roll the 4 lines.

Hynes just doesn't do it. They are either PK, part time PP, Granlund, or none of the above.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Let's not revise history and start acting like special teams were a positive while Laviolette was the coach.

 

[Kat Predator]

Let's not revise history and start acting like special teams were a positive while Laviolette was the coach.

Depends on which one you want to talk about. PK was really pretty good.

PP was bad, rolled over, and died completely.

 

[Armourboy]

Who is injured?

When he started playing them there were several. That same time was when they waived Tolvanen as well which is why it made us scratch our heads because we didn't need the roster spot at the time.

If I'm putting it all together right at the time you had McCarron's issue, Tolvanen got waived, Boro, Carrier, McDonagh and Jankowski all had injuries. Sherwood and Sanford had already been sent down.

I honestly can't remember why Novak came up. May have just been by the time all of that got sorted out and Tolvanen waived we had an open spot.

Prior to all of that Glass for sure wasn't playing and neither was Tolvanen.

In prior years when Carrier and all of those guys got their shot it was due to injury. At one point in that season Ekholm was the only Day 1 NHL Dman playing.

 

[Armourboy]

Depends on which one you want to talk about. PK was really pretty good.

PP was bad, rolled over, and died completely.

The first couple of years under Lavi I don't recall the PP being that bad. The last two years we would have been better served begging to keep it 5 on 5 rather than giving us the PP.

 

[Kat Predator]

The first couple of years under Lavi I don't recall the PP being that bad. The last two years we would have been better served begging to keep it 5 on 5 rather than giving us the PP.

Fair point. In 2015-16, the PP% was actually 10th in the NHL, which is actually good. Overall, it is dragged down by how it bottomed out. Lavi and McCarthy aren't exactly the best coaches when it comes to PP by the numbers.

FWIW, 21-22 once again stands out as anomalous statistically. We had a top shelf PP last season, while this year it is once again in the toilet and in 20-21 it was bottom third as well.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

This is another way to parse the question, for sure.

It points to what is the head scratcher. Yes, Hynes *did* show a willingness to play younger players. There was a really bad stretch of injuries there where he played a ton of depth, and it played very well.

But the confusing part was that on opening day this season, some of those same younger prospects didn't make the opening day roster. Glass is now being given an extended look at has responded. Tomasino seems like his development took a step or three backwards? And Tolvanen was an investment that just failed.

Hynes has changed his tune though with Parssinen and Novak getting their chances while Sherwood and Sanford were sent down to AHL tweener depth pieces and not top 6 forwards.

He didn't have a choice but to play younger players during the injury stretch that year, is the point. It helped us transition into a new mindset that almost seemed to be paying off... for a little while.

But yes, the main issue this year has been that opening day "WTF!!!" that came out of nowhere. Suddenly, guys who were looking good (Tomasino as a young potential top-6 RW, Fabbro as a nice top-pair bulwark to Josi) were straight out of the blue pushed aside. For no apparent gain. Smith has become a red herring in this argument. He may be the one grinder who actually fits. The issue is just WTF happened out of the gate that caused Hynes to make these other mysterious decisions, stick with them so long, and still never be willing to revisit some of them (Fabbro and Tomasino). He took "ain't broke" to "broke", for no apparent reason, and by the time he has looked back a little with a couple other players like Parssinen and Novak, the team is too dysfunctional to recover from it, the iceberg was already hit, the players know it.

That's how a team loses faith in a coach. When they see stuff that simply doesn't make sense to anybody, it's hard to put your faith back in that guy.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

When he started playing them there were several. That same time was when they waived Tolvanen as well which is why it made us scratch our heads because we didn't need the roster spot at the time.

If I'm putting it all together right at the time you had McCarron's issue, Tolvanen got waived, Boro, Carrier, McDonagh and Jankowski all had injuries. Sherwood and Sanford had already been sent down.

I honestly can't remember why Novak came up. May have just been by the time all of that got sorted out and Tolvanen waived we had an open spot.

Prior to all of that Glass for sure wasn't playing and neither was Tolvanen.

In prior years when Carrier and all of those guys got their shot it was due to injury. At one point in that season Ekholm was the only Day 1 NHL Dman playing.

Glass had a rough November sitting in the pressbox watching Parssinen take his spot. Glass started getting back in the lineup in December and Granlund moved to wing.

Jankowski and 3 defensemen being injured have absolutely nothing to do with the younger players getting a chance to play.

Novak was brought up because he showed the ability to score goals, especially PP goals, in the AHL and they wanted to see if he had progressed enough for that success to translate to the NHL. So far it has and now we see 3 young centers that have earned their way on to the NHL roster.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Here's my expectations: Sissons and Lanky to Calgary. Let Askarov and Cooley (who is not dog crap) share the back up role.

Nuclear option, trade both Saros and Lanky, do the above trade, then call the Habs see if they would do something insane; Saros for both of Montreal's top 10 picks. 2.25 years. (Florida is hovering at 8, MTL 9, NSH 10. with odds to move up to Beddard) {Do I expect this? OH HELL, NO! This is a fan driven, crackhead idea.}

 

[herzausstein]

I think the idea here is going to be focusing on Tarasov rather than paying a fortune for Saros.

Makes sense but the gm spent alot this summer hoping to compete which i why i picked them.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Here's my expectations: Sissons and Lanky to Calgary. Let Askarov and Cooley (who is not dog crap) share the back up role.

Nuclear option, trade both Saros and Lanky, do the above trade, then call the Habs see if they would do something insane; Saros for both of Montreal's top 10 picks. 2.25 years. (Florida is hovering at 8, MTL 9, NSH 10. with odds to move up to Beddard) {Do I expect this? OH HELL, NO! This is a fan driven, crackhead idea.}

If Calgary had goaltending issues, maybe they would trade Markstrom for Saros? Markstrom is the one who has had an off year. They are satisfied with their backup in Vladar and have the best goalie prospect in the world in Wolf. But maybe since Markstrom is 32 and has a big contract, they'd be willing to cash him in for Saros? Surely they wouldn't do it just for Lankinen, who isn't THAT proven yet. Markstrom may have an NMC, but he'd waive it to come to Nashville, wouldn't he? Nicer place to ride into the sunset? Saros for Markstrom is the deal there.

Montreal is tanking they WANT their top picks, don't they? But you could trade them for Carey Price, I bet. Maybe even Price *AND* a little extra? Not a top pick. But they have lots of other contract junk they probably want to liquidate. Saros and Lankinen for Price and Allen?

I think those revised two deals might be acceptable to Montreal and Calgary?

 

[Armourboy]

Glass had a rough November sitting in the pressbox watching Parssinen take his spot. Glass started getting back in the lineup in December and Granlund moved to wing.

Jankowski and 3 defensemen being injured have absolutely nothing to do with the younger players getting a chance to play.

Novak was brought up because he showed the ability to score goals, especially PP goals, in the AHL and they wanted to see if he had progressed enough for that success to translate to the NHL. So far it has and now we see 3 young centers that have earned their way on to the NHL roster.

It absolutely does because with those injuries, Tolvanen being waived, and McCarron's issue he had absolutely no choice but to play Glass, which is how he got back in the line up. There was no else left on the roster unless he wanted to stick another AHL defenseman in a forward position.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

It absolutely does because with those injuries, Tolvanen being waived, and McCarron's issue he had absolutely no choice but to play Glass, which is how he got back in the line up. There was no else left on the roster unless he wanted to stick another AHL defenseman in a forward position.

You ought to check your facts before making foolish hyperbolic statements.

Of the last 17 games the Preds have played, reaching back to 11/19 Glass has played in 15 of them missing only the December 2nd and 8th games.

Like I said, the stretch that Glass really sat for a significant amount of games is when Parssinen first came up.

 

[Predsanddead24]

You ought to check your facts before making foolish hyperbolic statements.

Of the last 17 games the Preds have played, reaching back to 11/19 Glass has played in 15 of them missing only the December 2nd and 8th games.

Like I said, the stretch that Glass really sat for a significant amount of games is when Parssinen first came up.

The 2nd and 8th were the two games prior to all the injuries piling up leading to us waiving Tolvanen and only having 12 active forwards. Maybe check your facts too.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

So anyway, one thing that has stuck with me the last couple games is how slow Josi and Granlund play when they have the puck. Not every time they have the puck but many times they slow down, stop moving their feet, and over stick handle while looking for a pass. That type of play has been the most important problem that has plagued the PP for years and now it's showing up at 5v5 in transition as well.

There's no way of knowing what's causing this issue without being in the room but it is something that has to be addressed. Those two get way too much icetime and puck touches to be so indecisive.

The 2nd and 8th were the two games prior to all the injuries piling up leading to us waiving Tolvanen and only having 12 active forwards. Maybe check your facts too.

Well, he did play the 10th. Tolvanen got waived the 11th and claimed the 12th, right? And Glass played the previous 5 games, so what, 6 out of 8 before Tolvanen being waived? Yep, sounds about right.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Can we all agree, regardless of the circumstances around Glass, that he is showing that he belongs in the NHL, has been playing very well for the month of December and appears to be one of the players that are going to be the foundation of this organization for years to come?

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Can we all agree, regardless of the circumstances around Glass, that he is showing that he belongs in the NHL, has been playing very well for the month of December and appears to be one of the players that are going to be the foundation of this organization for years to come?

In what has, to this point, been a disappointing season the 3 young centers are definitely a bright spot!

I do think there is a potential for things to be turning around especially if your evaluation of Tomasino is spot on and he gets the call.

 

[ShagDaddy]

In what has, to this point, been a disappointing season the 3 young centers are definitely a bright spot!

I do think there is a potential for things to be turning around especially if your evaluation of Tomasino is spot on and he gets the call.

Without knowing the internal discussions that take place regarding players, I’m assuming the reason that the Admirals moved Tomasino back to wing is based off the play of Parsinnen, Glass and Novak at center. That would be the logical explanation for moving Tomasino back to wing to develop more at that position.

 

[Scoresberg]

Glass has now 5 points in his last 5 games. He's looked terrific especially during that stretch.

 

[Predsanddead24]

For those who can't listen Poile said this about Tomasino:

1. Felt they maybe rushed him last year and he looked off in camp so they sent him down
2. Expected he might be back in the lineup sooner but inconsistent play early on and the injury kept him in Milwaukee
3. Deserving of a callup and should get games this season but unsure when that will happen

 

[nine_inch_fang]

For those who can't listen Poile said this about Tomasino:

1. Felt they maybe rushed him last year and he looked off in camp so they sent him down
2. Expected he might be back in the lineup sooner but inconsistent play early on and the injury kept him in Milwaukee
3. Deserving of a callup and should get games this season but unsure when that will happen

Any mention of a Fabbro trade?