Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Predsanddead24]

Any mention of a Fabbro trade?

Nope Tomasino was the only really interesting thing.

Other things they talked about:
Jiri Fischer heart attack in relation to the Damar Hamlin situation
Forsberg heating up
What has surprised him most about this team? Inconsistency. Feels we can be good but it doesn't happen every night
Jeannot's struggles, but he's still playing the right way and expects him to breakout offensively

Poile talk starts at 1:08 or so in the full video here:

 

[herzausstein]

Our current crop of centers:

Parssinen - 4A in last 5 games
Glass - 3A in last 5 games
Novak - 2G 1A in last 5 Games
Granlund - 2A in last 5 games
Joey - 1G in last 5 games

Joey has done some thing that led to goals that didnt end up on the scoresheet (good screens, puck retrieval, etc). Young guys are producing and theyre being put in a position to produce

 

[nine_inch_fang]

The last couple games it has really stood out how bad "the core" of this team are at break outs and transitions. The $8M+ players and Granlund are just not intuitive enough passing or supporting the puck out of the Dzone and through the Nzone.

For all the minutes he plays and touches he gets I really don't remember a quick transition that came from Josi passing the puck up and out. Part of this might be that he defers to his partner on the breakout passes so he can join the rush but that just slows the play down and allows the opponent to adjust.

McDonagh is great at creating a transition most of the time and it's noticeable when he wins the puck and makes a quick pass to spring one of the younger guys.

Ekholm amd Carrier have been very good the last few games at starting the transition.

Fabbro makes some really nice passes but obviously is ineffective when watching from the pressbox.

The forwards seem to be getting it except for the Nines and 64. I watched the Vegas game Monday so I knew Forsberg had a hat trick and I was expecting a really good game from him but it was painful watching him trying to transition pucks from his halfwall to someone moving out of the zone with speed. It was almost like he didn't understand the concept and just wanted to be cherry picking in the Nzone rather than battling the opposing Dman for the puck. Another example of Forsberg not getting it is the play through the Nzone before the Sissons goal last night. When Parssinen gathered that puck and took off skating he was on his backhand and getting pressured from the middle of the ice, Forsberg should be cutting through the middle of the ice to split the two defenders and create a 2v1 against the near defender with Sissons. Instead, he stays on the far wall until, luckily, he realized the pass wasn't going to make it to him and the defender bobbled the puck, that's when he finally cuts through the center of the ice setting up the 2v1. That should have been a direct pass to him, it wasn't, but luckily it worked out.

Chris Mason commented on it being another saft pass through the Nzone and Forsberg bailed out Parssinen when really, he bailed himself out by adjusting his path at the last second.

Still amazes me that these simple concepts are so hard for "the core" to grasp but the kids come right in and make the plays instinctually.

 

[triggrman]

NIF, what's your take on Granlund's 200' game this season?

I think he chases the puck in the dzone worse than anyone and panicks in the neutral zone when he's carrying the puck.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

NIF, what's your take on Granlund's 200' game this season?

I think he chases the puck in the dzone worse than anyone and panicks in the neutral zone when he's carrying the puck.

I'm not sure that hasn't always been the case with him, though? It's just the... ?hustle?... with which he does the chasing seemed to dazzle Hynes right from Day 1?

 

[nine_inch_fang]

NIF, what's your take on Granlund's 200' game this season?

I think he chases the puck in the dzone worse than anyone and panicks in the neutral zone when he's carrying the puck.

I couldn't agree more, that's why his performance has been better since settling in at wing. And now being on a line with Glass and Nino lowers the amount of touches that he has to make in transition.

Several times last night the puck got up, out and into the Ozone quickly by going Ekholm to Nino to Glass or Carrier to Glass to Nino or some variation of that.

Granlund becomes more useful once in the Ozone and he can work hard retrieving pucks and putting them back in front of the night.

I'm not sure that hasn't always been the case with him, though? It's just the... ?hustle?... with which he does the chasing seemed to dazzle Hynes right from Day 1?

It has been the case but were there other options to use at top 6 center?

That's what they wanted Glass to do to start the year and brought Parssinen up in the first place, right?

 

[101st_fan]

It has been the case but were there other options to use at top 6 center?

That's what they wanted Glass to do to start the year and brought Parssinen up in the first place, right?

Sissons was an option at 2C to start the season which would have left McCarron and Glass as the bottom six centers on opening day (probably bumping Sherwood or Tolvanen from the Prague lineups) ... three of the better center options at the dot (Glass taking major strides with his faceoffs starting in December). Duchene and Granlund are better at the wing ... Jankowski and Parssinen called up provided options for centers up and down the roster.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I also saw this of Lavi with a Bud Light on the bench. Do you think Hynes would enjoy a nice cold brewski on the bench? I don't think so.

 

[drwpreds]

Just a couple of thoughts on the Canes game before we move on to the Caps game tonight.

First, there is no debating the fact that any win on the road against Carolina has to be considered a GREAT win. That is maybe the toughest building in the entire league to win. So I preface what I am about to say with that.

I hate to be the negative guy after a win, but for me I look at that game and just say thanks Saros for saving out behinds. Because for me that game was borderline a complete embarrassment despite the fact that we actually won the game. I have been watching hockey a long time and that is about as dominating a game as you will ever see.

67 shots is just complete insanity- the entire game- especially the last two periods- it basically felt like the Canes were on a 5 on 3 power play for two whole periods. We could have thrown the Admirals out there and there is no way they could have done much worse.

I have seen many Preds fans saying that was best, most fun game of the year, but for me it was only fun when Sissons scored the empty net goal and the horn went off. Before that it was like a car crash that you could not look away from- lol. I would not characterize it as fun at all- lol

On the positive side- full credit to the Preds for taking advantage and capitalizing on their scoring chances. That is something that we absolutely have been awful at until lately.

We are finally getting some offense- 21 goals in last 4 games. To put that into perspective before that stretch we had 21 goals in our last 10 games.

Having said all of that- (and one more thought on the game on a positive note) the expected goals for the game according to some of the analytic sites (and I know you have to take this with a huge grain of salt) was something like 6 goals for Carolina and 4 for the Preds. So the Preds had plenty of chances themselves.

So it can be argued that the actual game was not quite as lopsided as the shots on goal seemed to indicate.

But no matter how you look at it- still a great result and that is definitely the kind of win that can lead to a good run.

Really tough for us to have to turn around and play another top team on the road tonight- will be interesting to see how we do tonight after such an exhausting game.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Guys? Tell me about Cody Glass.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

With regards to Hynes and the teams performance. If the team keeps things turned around and makes the playoffs, you kinda have to give Hynes credit, unless you think with a different coach we would be much better and contending for the division title.

I know we question a lot of the individual coaching moves, but at the end of the day, results are all that matter.

When Fabbro was scratched a lot of posts were made assuming that he was done here and going to be traded, etc. But it sounds like the coaches thought he needed to watch a couple of games from the stands to help see what they needed from him, then last night, against a good team, he got put back in with instructions to be more aggressive and from what I'm reading from you guys he responded pretty well.

I'm just a dumb but passionate fan. When we were losing and looking like shit while losing I wanted to fire the coach because that's what fans do. But if we are winning, I am willing to give the coach credit and shut up and enjoy the ride.

Moving this discussion here so it doesn't get locked in the game thread.

In regards to Fabbro, it's interesting because Hynes has never elaborated on what the "more" is that he's expecting from Fabbro. He's only made statements like, "we've talked to him so he knows" and we heard the TV/ radio people refer to McKeown being brought up as a way to push Fabbro.

That left us wondering what exactly was wrong with Fabbro's play. We were looking for mistakes and bad things that coaches were trying beat out of him and left us wondering what the coaching points could possibly be that McKeown would perform better at. Turns out, last night Gil dropped the info that the coaches are looking for more offensive push and aren't punishing him for mistakes he's made.

That's quite the revelation if true. It's not the beating down and breaking the confidence of a young developing player as much as a chance for him to get his mentality sorted and become more integrated in the offense which could actually lead to more mistakes. It's the coaches telling him he's being too safe and pushing for a higher standard of play they believe he can get to.

It's something that we talked about as a possible reason for the Lauzon Fabbro pairing in the first place, make Fabbro be THE man on a pairing. We did see him coming out of his shell and progressing but it seems that the coaching staff is pushing for much more and probably felt that he had stagnated. It'll be interesting to watch going forward.

If he can become a more impactful player in the offense along with the addition of the three centers things could really be looking up.

 

[101st_fan]

Moving this discussion here so it doesn't get locked in the game thread.

In regards to Fabbro, it's interesting because Hynes has never elaborated on what the "more" is that he's expecting from Fabbro. He's only made statements like, "we've talked to him so he knows" and we heard the TV/ radio people refer to McKeown being brought up as a way to push Fabbro.

That left us wondering what exactly was wrong with Fabbro's play. We were looking for mistakes and bad things that coaches were trying beat out of him and left us wondering what the coaching points could possibly be that McKeown would perform better at. Turns out, last night Gil dropped the info that the coaches are looking for more offensive push and aren't punishing him for mistakes he's made.

That's quite the revelation if true. It's not the beating down and breaking the confidence of a young developing player as much as a chance for him to get his mentality sorted and become more integrated in the offense which could actually lead to more mistakes. It's the coaches telling him he's being too safe and pushing for a higher standard of play they believe he can get to.

It's something that we talked about as a possible reason for the Lauzon Fabbro pairing in the first place, make Fabbro be THE man on a pairing. We did see him coming out of his shell and progressing but it seems that the coaching staff is pushing for much more and probably felt that he had stagnated. It'll be interesting to watch going forward.

If he can become a more impactful player in the offense along with the addition of the three centers things could really be looking up.

Now all we can do is watch and see how Fabbro reacts to sitting for a couple of games to watch ... if he internalizes the guidance and plays up to his ability AND within the way the staff wants or if he remains within his typical comfort zone.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Now all we can do is watch and see how Fabbro reacts to sitting for a couple of games to watch ... if he internalizes the guidance and plays up to his ability AND within the way the staff wants or if he remains within his typical comfort zone.

Comfort zone is a great way to put it. He's gotten comfortable playing solid defense and making quality first passes.

Is there more? The coaches seem to think so and, as you said, all we can do is wait.

 

[101st_fan]

Comfort zone is a great way to put it. He's gotten comfortable playing solid defense and making quality first passes.

Is there more? The coaches seem to think so and, as you said, all we can do is wait.

What the emerging details reveal about the handling of Fabbro is that none of it was punishment. It was to help transition him to the lead, not wingman, on a pairing with expectations that he could step up the offensive aspect of his game.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

What the emerging details reveal about the handling of Fabbro is that none of it was punishment. It was to help transition him to the lead, not wingman, on a pairing with expectations that he could step up the offensive aspect of his game.

It seems that way, I could be reading too much into the tidbits I've picked up on but that's what I'm going with rather than the doom and gloom.

 

[Kat Predator]

It seems that way, I could be reading too much into the tidbits I've picked up on but that's what I'm going with rather than the doom and gloom.

OK.

But then I don't understand the call up. McKeown isn't really an offensive defenseman. He's more a stay at home guy who can score a goal here and there. So what did they expect Fabbro to learn watching him? If they want him to be more like Jordan Gross (and I think they do) then why not bring Gross back up for a couple games?

 

[Scoresberg]

Guys? Tell me about Cody Glass.

Getting better by the game. Started off slow, and got lost in the shuffle with the likes of Sanford, Sherwood and McCarron.

Don't remember the exact game but about a month ago he got a chance in the top-six and looked good in that role. Obviously, his role has changed since but he's kept playing well so he's not gotten out of the lineup. Seems to have build some chemistry with Niederraiter, and Granlund is a great 3rd wheel on that line.

Skill is evident, I think he still needs to add some physicality and toughness to his game. He's a big guy, so he should use his size more.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

OK.

But then I don't understand the call up. McKeown isn't really an offensive defenseman. He's more a stay at home guy who can score a goal here and there. So what did they expect Fabbro to learn watching him? If they want him to be more like Jordan Gross (and I think they do) then why not bring Gross back up for a couple games?

I don't think Fabbro watching his direct replacement is the point. And I don't think they'd use Gross as an example either.

In theory it's a mental break giving time to watch tape of himself then compare it to what he sees top defensemen doing during live games. It's the same concept used if you're trying to get rid of bad habits but in this case it's to encourage more involvement and creativity.

The choice of McKeown over Gross is probably a choice between a safe defensive player that will be given 11 minutes or a riskier player.

 

[triggrman]

Lauzon and Gross would be a train wreck. Again, Fabbro is the youngest defenseman on the roster by a year. At 24, Carrier was placed on and cleared waivers.

 

[herzausstein]

Lauzon and Gross would be a train wreck. Again, Fabbro is the youngest defenseman on the roster by a year. At 24, Carrier was placed on and cleared waivers.

Carriers first full nhl season was at age 25. At age 24, this is fabbros 4th. Defensemen tend to develop slower than forwards. Fabbro makes bad choices from time to time and ive mentioned trading him mainly because i think we are submarining his value and hes been chosen as odd man and will be shipped out for cap reasons. Probably a dumb decision long term for in short term win now mode the older dmen are better than fabbro

I don't think Fabbro watching his direct replacement is the point. And I don't think they'd use Gross as an example either.

In theory it's a mental break giving time to watch tape of himself then compare it to what he sees top defensemen doing during live games. It's the same concept used if you're trying to get rid of bad habits but in this case it's to encourage more involvement and creativity.

The choice of McKeown over Gross is probably a choice between a safe defensive player that will be given 11 minutes or a riskier player.

Mckeown vs gross i think also plays into mckeown is only up here temporarily and i think they dont want to risk sending gross through waivers

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Moving this discussion here so it doesn't get locked in the game thread.

In regards to Fabbro, it's interesting because Hynes has never elaborated on what the "more" is that he's expecting from Fabbro. He's only made statements like, "we've talked to him so he knows" and we heard the TV/ radio people refer to McKeown being brought up as a way to push Fabbro.

That left us wondering what exactly was wrong with Fabbro's play. We were looking for mistakes and bad things that coaches were trying beat out of him and left us wondering what the coaching points could possibly be that McKeown would perform better at. Turns out, last night Gil dropped the info that the coaches are looking for more offensive push and aren't punishing him for mistakes he's made.

That's quite the revelation if true. It's not the beating down and breaking the confidence of a young developing player as much as a chance for him to get his mentality sorted and become more integrated in the offense which could actually lead to more mistakes. It's the coaches telling him he's being too safe and pushing for a higher standard of play they believe he can get to.

It's something that we talked about as a possible reason for the Lauzon Fabbro pairing in the first place, make Fabbro be THE man on a pairing. We did see him coming out of his shell and progressing but it seems that the coaching staff is pushing for much more and probably felt that he had stagnated. It'll be interesting to watch going forward.

If he can become a more impactful player in the offense along with the addition of the three centers things could really be looking up.

It doesn't sound like enough to go on for me to believe that's really their plan. Fabbro played really well last year, and yet before the season even started it seemed like they had hatched a plan to reduce his role and minutes, and I don't see how they could have thought that would inspire confidence or make him feel like he could take more chances? And then when he did get to play something like his old role and minutes for those 5 or 6 games or whatever it was that McDonagh was hurt, I thought Fabbro started to look almost immediately like his old self again. Then he was right back down, and even worse scratched. It still doesn't seem to add up to me.

Also if Fabbro is a conscientious and intelligent defender in general, which he seems to be, and if Lauzon has some lapses at times, you would kind of expect Fabbro to be trying to help cover those, not suddenly jump up and become another offensive guy and exacerbate things.

He also gets like zero PP time. Not even the token 2nd unit stuff that Carrier sometimes does, and certainly not the spotlight usage that Gross got when he was up. I would think if you're trying to inspire a little offensive progress in a player, maybe you at least occasionally put him on the PP?

Through it all, Fabbro has seemed to retain some slightly decent metrics, like last time I looked he was still a bit on the positive Corsi side, while the replacements were generally getting caved in. So again, even if you think he could benefit from a chance to watch the game from above... we're in a playoff race here, and putting minor leaguers who are getting hemmed into their own zone onto the ice instead of a guy who is statistically holding his own is kind of a weird call.

I dunno, Hynes throws out some pretty big word salads when he actually is pinned down to talk about anything publicly, and I think I'm learning not to take much of what he says seriously. The way he talks, you kind of want to start nodding your head with what he's saying, but then when you step away and look at games it's hard to see the correlation. If he talks as much as I imagine he does to the players, I can easily see them getting some mixed messages trying to decipher it all.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

It doesn't sound like enough to go on for me to believe that's really their plan. Fabbro played really well last year, and yet before the season even started it seemed like they had hatched a plan to reduce his role and minutes, and I don't see how they could have thought that would inspire confidence or make him feel like he could take more chances? And then when he did get to play something like his old role and minutes for those 5 or 6 games or whatever it was that McDonagh was hurt, I thought Fabbro started to look almost immediately like his old self again. Then he was right back down, and even worse scratched. It still doesn't seem to add up to me.

Also if Fabbro is a conscientious and intelligent defender in general, which he seems to be, and if Lauzon has some lapses at times, you would kind of expect Fabbro to be trying to help cover those, not suddenly jump up and become another offensive guy and exacerbate things.

He also gets like zero PP time. Not even the token 2nd unit stuff that Carrier sometimes does, and certainly not the spotlight usage that Gross got when he was up. I would think if you're trying to inspire a little offensive progress in a player, maybe you at least occasionally put him on the PP?

Through it all, Fabbro has seemed to retain some slightly decent metrics, like last time I looked he was still a bit on the positive Corsi side, while the replacements were generally getting caved in. So again, even if you think he could benefit from a chance to watch the game from above... we're in a playoff race here, and putting minor leaguers who are getting hemmed into their own zone onto the ice instead of a guy who is statistically holding his own is kind of a weird call.

I dunno, Hynes throws out some pretty big word salads when he actually is pinned down to talk about anything publicly, and I think I'm learning not to take much of what he says seriously. The way he talks, you kind of want to start nodding your head with what he's saying, but then when you step away and look at games it's hard to see the correlation. If he talks as much as I imagine he does to the players, I can easily see them getting some mixed messages trying to decipher it all.

I don't blame people for being pessimistic about the team, I just try to be more positive, to each their own.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I don't blame people for being pessimistic about the team, I just try to be more positive, to each their own.

I am trying but emotions, man, emotions.

 

[Scoresberg]

The team is playing better lately, although most wins have come off of huge performances from Saros. After starting slowly, he’s now up to over 20 goals saved above expected and that’s 4th in the league. Where would this team be even with league-average goaltending let alone a bad one?

Even so, my opinion on Hynes has not changed. He’s mediocre, always been, always will be. His teams will be close to playoff race year in year out (well, again mostly because Saros has started to play Vezina-worthy again) but I believe this team could be more than that. On paper, we should be able to run with the big dogs in the division.

For me, continuing with Hynes just signals that the ownership/Poile are content with what we’re seeing on the ice. A cold streak there, a hot streak there that leads you to overall mediocrity keeping you in the playoff race artificially.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't blame people for being pessimistic about the team, I just try to be more positive, to each their own.

I feel like I'm "optimistic about the team" (because I think they're a lot better then we've seen for the past calendar year) and at the same time "realistic about the coach" (because he's awful and if he was fired my optimism about the team would at least have some chance of being realized).