As a fan of the team from the beginning, over the past couple of years I have come to a depressing realization. David Poile will not be fired no matter how many mistakes he makes. I am not even sure Haslam would fire him. It has been 20+ years of one man's vision which has produced no Cups. What we have now is a team built in the worst way: Good enough to beat the bottom feeders and can occasionally beat a good team if the goalie goes God Mode. Stuck in wild card purgatory. Even if they miss the playoffs, no lottery draft picks to be had. If you are optimistic and like where this team is going my hat is off to you. Personally I see mediocrity for seasons to come.
Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23
- Thread starter nine_inch_fang
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I’m not sure when/if Poile will ever consistently identify good offensive talent.
Now to be fair the Tolvanen sample size with Seattle is small. We’ve also seen that with the Preds before. I just hope for his sake the new scenery helps him be consistently successful.
Now to be fair the Tolvanen sample size with Seattle is small. We’ve also seen that with the Preds before. I just hope for his sake the new scenery helps him be consistently successful.
I get why some people point to Edmonton or Buffalo when arguments are made against being bad for a couple of years in order to get a top-10 impact forward. But looking back at like the last 15 years the team that ended up winning it all almost always had a highly-drafted impact forward. Having a good goalie and a good d-man is nice, but unless you have some real top-end talent in your forward corps you are almost certainly not winning the Cup. Something this team has for the most part never had.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
You can stop right there.
Trust me. You do not want to live through that kind of hell.
Even our cup appearance in 16-17 was coming a couples years after we drafted seth jones 4th overall. I know seth wasnt on our team at the time but we traded him for a different high drafted player in his prime RyJo. Being bad a year or two doesnt condemn your team to mediocrity. Thats managements job.
You seem to be forgetting our 12-13 and 13-14 seasons where we were bad. Got Jones in the 13 draft and fiala in the 14 draft. Ryjo (Jones) played a big part in our run to the finals. Fiala didnt but hes a heck of a player (for another team because of reasons)
And its not just Edmonton or Buffalo. In the last 7 years the teams that have had the most picks in the top 10 are:
Buffalo - 7 with 2 #1 picks
Det - 6
New Jersey - 5 with 2 #1 picks
NYR - 4 with 1 #1 pick
Arizona - 4
Anaheim - 4
Ottawa - 4
Van - 4
Montreal - 3 with 1 #1 pick
Chicago - 3
Colorado - 3
Edmonton - 3
LA - 3
CBJ - 3
And a smattering of ones and twos. So how many of those teams would you trade places with? Right now the only team would probably be the Avs. Wouldn't take a bucket of pucks for the rest of them.
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
Carolina and Isles were also bad for many years and accrued high draft capital with nothing to show for it either. The Isles still basically have been bad, just not top 5 bad, outside of some stretches with Trotz and overachieving in the playoffs. Carolina is good, but a regular season paper tiger til they prove different.
Bringer of Jollity
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I'll add, you also just have to be lucky/fortunate to win a Cup as well. The '11-'12 Kings looked like the org had stalled after the teardown and draft high years and were on the verge of missing the playoffs that year. Sutter manages to come in and get them in as the 8th seed (though still not all that convincingly--they were 10th in the conference with a month to play) and they absolutely go on to wipe the table in the playoffs (16-4!!).
Now you can look at them and say "oh, they had high draft picks," "oh, they fired their coach," "oh, they made some good trades"--I mean, they did all of those things, and they also had some bad high draft picks, and they also made some iffy trades, and it wasn't clear at all that Sutter had really been all that much of an upgrade on Stevens. They got lucky/fortunate though, the things they did all lined up and fell into place at the right time. If Sutter comes in a few weeks later, if Quick's play drops off at all, if they don't scratch into that 8th seed, etc... Lombardi possibly gets fired that off-season and they go a different direction and end up another Buffalo, Islanders, Panthers, instead of winning 2 Cups.
Now you can look at them and say "oh, they had high draft picks," "oh, they fired their coach," "oh, they made some good trades"--I mean, they did all of those things, and they also had some bad high draft picks, and they also made some iffy trades, and it wasn't clear at all that Sutter had really been all that much of an upgrade on Stevens. They got lucky/fortunate though, the things they did all lined up and fell into place at the right time. If Sutter comes in a few weeks later, if Quick's play drops off at all, if they don't scratch into that 8th seed, etc... Lombardi possibly gets fired that off-season and they go a different direction and end up another Buffalo, Islanders, Panthers, instead of winning 2 Cups.
Ottawa is about the same place in the standings as us and has been held back till recently with cheap ownership. So looking at the age of their core maybe.... but their goaltending pipeline looks questionable which is a big part of the game.
Arizona shouldnt be compared to any other nhl team as it really does its own thing with no regard to being competitive.
Montreal and edmonton is filled questionable contracts, bad goaltending, and no defense. Granted edmonton has gotten further than us in the playoffs recently
I would say rangers future looks rather bright. Maybe them.
Theres alot to like on paper about the devils and LA as well. But once again.... goaltending. Only so much you can do when watermelons could find a way past your goalies.
We have the defense and we hand the goaltending, a center like bedard could really put this team over the top. Bad thing is... we have the goaltending and we have the defense.... this basically ensures we wont ever end up with bedard unless theres a major injury to goaltending and defense.
Since you already did the work once, would you mind doing it again but this time push the search back for teams with most top 10 picks over a 5 year span starting 10 years ago and ending 5 years ago. That would show the teams where those top 10 picks should be entering their primes. Outside of grand slam picks likes mcdavid, most top picks still take a few years to really have big impacts. Would be interesting which teams land in that area.
A huge difference for this team right now is the performance of the PK. And again, I'm not sure if this is a difference in what the coaches are asking or if it's the players executing the plan properly because it's not a complete system change.
They still use a chaser out high but the second forward is out higher and not so tied to the bumper in the mid slot, the bumper is passed off to one of the Dmen a little bit more now too. This puts that forward in a better position to cut off passing lanes and to switch with the chaser quicker and not leave the gap they used to.
Now as the puck is on the halfwall or below the 2 Dmen and the one forward stack themselves in a line (not a straight line but kinda staggered) out from the net to prevent those "through the box" passes.
The Dmen are also more prepared to release from the front of the net to engage the backdoor one-timer either by breaking up the pass or being right in position for the block.
If you're going to use that triangle with a chaser scheme we're now seeing it executed properly. The triangle has to be more aggressive and rotating with the position of the puck.
They still use a chaser out high but the second forward is out higher and not so tied to the bumper in the mid slot, the bumper is passed off to one of the Dmen a little bit more now too. This puts that forward in a better position to cut off passing lanes and to switch with the chaser quicker and not leave the gap they used to.
Now as the puck is on the halfwall or below the 2 Dmen and the one forward stack themselves in a line (not a straight line but kinda staggered) out from the net to prevent those "through the box" passes.
The Dmen are also more prepared to release from the front of the net to engage the backdoor one-timer either by breaking up the pass or being right in position for the block.
If you're going to use that triangle with a chaser scheme we're now seeing it executed properly. The triangle has to be more aggressive and rotating with the position of the puck.
Not sure why my post got quoted for this (accidental?) but I’ll bite on the reply. If you look at this in a vacuum I wouldn’t trade. But I wouldn’t mind being Chicago if we get the previous years of success too. Same for a few of the others.
Some franchises ride the wave well. Others stay underwater. We basically sort of doggie paddle most years. Not all that exciting but I guess not drowning is ok.
Kat Predator
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- Nov 28, 2019
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Yep. Four (or five) guys tuning their fiddles in front of the net wasn't working. Ever.
Here you go:
Buf - 5
Edm - 4 with 1 #1 pick (McDavid)
Van - 4
Avs - 4 with 1 #1 pick (Mac)
Carolina - 3
Toronto - 3 with 1 #1 pick (Matthews)
Florida - 3 with 1 #1 pick (Ekblad)
Calgary - 3
Devils - 2 with 1 #1 pick (Hischier)
CBJ - 2
Peg - 2
Stars - 2
Phi - 2
With a few teams having a single year in the that time frame like the Preds, Vegas, NYR, Det and Habs.
BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Roman Yoshi
#164303
Boy do we disagree there. NYR are having a down year, but they are going to be a force to be reckoned with for a while. The Kings are actually a very good team with great young players coming up. New Jersey I'm not totally sold on but much of that has to do with their goaltending.
Sports, again, is cyclical. I'd happily trade places with LA who has two cups in the last almost decade and who had to go through a rebuild now.
I'd happily have Chicago's cups and go through the rebuild now.
For every team that is a consistent bottom feeder there are teams that just aren't. It isn't a zero sum game.
Scoresberg
Perpetual Mediocrity
The Rangers got lucky as hell, essentially winning the lottery two years in a row and having Panarin sign only with them. Other than that, I think they're a product of Shesterhkin as much as anything else. Last year they overachieved.
I think LA did it properly. They kept guys like Kopitar, Doughty, Brown and Quick around and rebuilt the core with them overseeing the transition. They accumulated draft picks in other ways, they made smart trades and well-thought UFA signings. They had two top-five picks in 2019 and 2020, but neither of Turcotte nor Byfield are much of a contributors yet. Time will tell.
On the NYR- I mean, they are on pace for a 104 point season, so not really too much of a down year
So is there official word on the reason behind the askarov recall? I know we are playing Montreal but it would seem like a bad idea to arbitrarily bring him up. Maybe they want him to get time with nashvilles goalie coach? Idk but would seem ill advised to play him when lankinen and saros are doing so well and we need every point possible.
Porter Stoutheart
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Was it not already said that Lankinen is feeling sick? Did I imagine that, or ... ?
I thought that was speculation. Wasnt he on the bench last night? Would seem odd if he was ill to have him in that close of proximity for that long.Was it not already said that Lankinen is feeling sick? Did I imagine that, or ... ?
Predsanddead24
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- Mar 7, 2019
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Here's the official word from the Preds. Could mean anything was potentially wrong with Lankinen so who knows.
BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
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