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GDT: Pre-Season Game #2: Toronto @ Montreal | 7pm

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fahad203 said:
We don't have a good defensive core. We may have a better defensive core than years prior but not a good one

Our D seriously lacks mobility and physicality. We don't have a legit point man on PP. Reilly can't shoot and Muzzin can't carry

Our D at best is above average
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False.

Trying to argue that this defensive team lacks mobility is a brutal take.
 
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SprDaVE said:
Holl is a solid 2M defenseman that can play a lot of defensive minutes pretty well.

We finally have a good defensive core and people can't stop whining that they didn't keep a middle line forward. Almost like dementia has been hitting a lot of people about what the defensive core was 3-5 years ago.
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Holl is mediocre.
I was only joking in that post, no need to be so defensive. Bottom line: others could take his spot and would they be more successful? Who knows. We have all seen enough of Holl to be able to realize his positives and his shortcomings at professional hockey.
 
fahad203 said:
We don't have a good defensive core. We may have a better defensive core than years prior but not a good one

Our D seriously lacks mobility and physicality. We don't have a legit point man on PP. Reilly can't shoot and Muzzin can't carry

Our D at best is above average
Click to expand...

It's one of the best dcorps in hockey. Three quality top pair dman and great depth of mobility and skill.

Not many teams can match it- which is why we're much better than most teams defensively.
 
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Guided by Veseys said:
Holl is mediocre.
I was only joking in that post, no need to be so defensive. Bottom line: others could take his spot and would they be more successful? Who knows. We have all seen enough of Holl to be able to realize his positives and his shortcomings at professional hockey.
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Answer is no. You wouldn't find a middle pairing defenseman for 2M that can play some tough defensive minutes like he can at a solid level. Is he great? No. Is he star? No. I'm not sure why people expect out of defenseman these days. People always need to complain about a defenseman or two on this team, always expecting perfection and superstar level IQ. Seems rather bizarre.
 
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The sky is falling with this pre season loss! Liked what I saw with Ritchie and Kase. Could be very good pick ups for us along with Bunting.

Gusev was meh, doesn't bring anything worth signing to a contract. Wayne Train was invisible, hard to bring his style of game to a meaningless pre season game.

Dermott and Moe were alright tonight too, again hard to judge regular lineup players in pre season. The way Sandin and Lilly are playing makes it wonder if Dermott or Holl will end up being healthy scratches throughout the season. One of Sandin or Lilly will have to learn to play on the PK though if that's the case.
 
SprDaVE said:
Answer is no. You wouldn't find a middle pairing defenseman for 2M that can play some tough defensive minutes like he can at a solid level. Is he great? No. Is he star? No. I'm not sure why people expect out of defenseman these days. People always need to complain about a defenseman or two on this team, always expecting perfection and superstar level IQ. Seems rather bizarre.
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Seems to me bizarre that you will defend him so vehemently when he hasn’t shown us much either way but that is something you wish to convey so fair enough. We haven’t tried others in that position so perhaps they may have done a better job. .
 
SprDaVE said:
Answer is no. You wouldn't find a middle pairing defenseman for 2M that can play some tough defensive minutes like he can at a solid level. Is he great? No. Is he star? No. I'm not sure why people expect out of defenseman these days. People always need to complain about a defenseman or two on this team, always expecting perfection and superstar level IQ. Seems rather bizarre.
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Holl is a good middle pairing defenceman only if that guy he's paired with is Muzzin. He's looked below average with anyone else he's played with.
 
Hard game to watch but thought Mrazek was great outside of the one goal that was 50/50 blame on Rielly. Still don't get how at 27 Mo still struggles with gap control.

Menell looked competent but he's clearly behind Dermott/Liljegren/Sandin, in that order. He'll most likely be waived. I liked his game but not sure I see a future for an OFD with no stand out offensive traits; he's a smart puck mover with good deception but that's about the extent of it. Only one game though.

Dahlstrom was a tire fire, i'd have Rubins ahead of him on the depth chart. Rubins was also subtly effective and would have liked to see how he did beside Holl.
 
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fahad203 said:
We don't have a good defensive core. We may have a better defensive core than years prior but not a good one

Our D seriously lacks mobility and physicality. We don't have a legit point man on PP. Reilly can't shoot and Muzzin can't carry

Our D at best is above average
Click to expand...
True
 
SprDaVE said:
Defending him by saying he's a solid defenseman with a 2M cap hit? Yeah... vehemently might not be the adjective to use here. I think I'd call myself level headed here.
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Singling comments out and using ad Homs is pretty much vehemence. Anyways, back to the subject, I think Hollsy is a poor player and you think otherwise: carry on.
 
Curious why the Leafs went with Dahlstrom and not Ben Hutton. Hutton's an NHLer, Dahlstrom seems to be filler material on a tanking team.
 
zeke said:
any team.
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You first.
He’s okay and he was held back by Babcock. I was joking to a certain degree because on that play imo he wasn’t showing decent awareness. I like him but he is obviously offensively inept and depending on your perspective: a mediocre defenceman.
your question is sort of elitist and I would appreciate a decent and honest perspective aside from a tedious stat listing that might prove otherwise.
 
Havoc said:
We agree with you that marner has been a playoff disgrace but you have zero facts to prove he's not offensive and relies on others to create offence. Your anger is making you just spit out nonsense right now
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Dave92 does nothing BUT spit out nonsense.
 
Guided by Veseys said:
You first.
He’s okay and he was held back by Babcock. I was joking to a certain degree because on that play imo he wasn’t showing decent awareness. I like him but he is obviously offensively inept and depending on your perspective: a mediocre defenceman.
your question is sort of elitist and I would appreciate a decent and honest perspective aside from a tedious stat listing that might prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

You're the one claiming Holl is not a good #4D. I thought it would be easy for you to name a bunch you like better.
 
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