Post Deadline Transactions and Signings

[Kiwi]

That is all well in good but I think it is fairly clear that we do not play in an equitable league in that regard. For whatever reason, conspiracy or otherwise, we get a bad reputation when we try to play or even just simply respond to dirty plays.

We push back, we get penalized or suspended. Other teams push back, and it is usually fine.

It is also proven that having tough guys in the lineup really does nothing to prevent most dirty players from being dirty as well. If anything, they get riled up and play dirty even more. Or we get distracted by it.

I do agree we that we need guys who can play through it better though. Laugh it off, ignore it, or whatever. Stand up when you absolutely need to, which I think we do (as much as we can without having the book thrown at us all of the time anyways). At the end of the day, those bullies pay by playing through their BS and making them lose... Engaging with their antics is often exactly what they want.

I've watched Tavares, Matthews and Marner get manhandled and punched in the head during the playoffs and take it like a bunch of p***yes

It's the ******* playoffs, of course that sort of crap is going to be let go and everybody knows it because it happens every single year

You don't need to be an enforcer, McKinnon isn't a tough guy but he isn't taking **** from anybody

That's why when series get nasty and tough our guys disappear, if you aren't prepared to defend yourself nobody else is going to do the protecting for you at that time of the year

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I've watched Tavares, Matthews and Marner get manhandled and punched in the head during the playoffs and take it like a bunch of p***yes

It's the ******* playoffs, of course that sort of crap is going to be let go and everybody knows it because it happens every single year

You don't need to be an enforcer, McKinnon isn't a tough guy but he isn't taking **** from anybody

That's why when series get nasty and tough our guys disappear, if you aren't prepared to defend yourself nobody else is going to do the protecting for you at that time of the year

Not sure that is really why they disappear, and it is not like they are really exempt from the retribution penalties either (see Matthews' 2 game suspension for doing something that most people only get fined for despite being a squeaky clean player).

I'd just like to see them play smarter and cleaner (in terms of execution) rather than tougher. MacKinnon has been tough at times. He has also hurt himself, and occasionally his team, doing so. What made him win was being smart and clean with his play. Matthews gets golden chances and misses them. Tavares ties himself up in front of the net and doesn't get into space enough. Marner does a whole host of cringy things.

Sometimes you may have to get involved or stick up for yourself, and if they are smart about it, I think that is a necessary part of the game as well. But their issue is that they haven't been able to play through those things like Cup winning players have done in the past and the solution to playing through it is not to get mixed up in it even more. We have had some terrible luck, and they have been able to get away with some lack of execution in the past, but I think 7 years is long enough to say that they need to start acting on some more of these lessons that they've learned.

 

[613Leafer]

(1) Fire Keefe
(2) Re-sign ROR, Acciari, Schenn, and Kampf
(3) Trade one of the "Core Four"
(4) Re-sign Samsanov, move Murray, and go with Samsanov-Woll next season

That would essentially be my gameplan for the offseason. I don't think we need to rebuild over multiple years, but I do think we need to give up on the ~50% of the cap tied up in four forwards experiment.

At some point you do simply need change for the sake of change IMO. I think the core group is carrying too much psychological baggage from so many repeated failures (except for Rielly and Nylander, who of our core are the ones who most consistently perform well in the playoffs), and giving the locker room a shakeup (while also re-distributing our cap a bit) could do wonders for this team in the playoffs.

Look at Florida for example - they were swept in the 2nd round last year. Did they blow it up entirely? No, but they also didn't run it back.They made one big move, moving Huberdeau/Weegar out for Tkachuk, and they changed the coach. Now they're in the Conference finals. If Huberdeau was still with his weak playoff performances / lack of physical play, they don't make it out of the first round.

 

[Stephen]

Not sure that is really why they disappear, and it is not like they are really exempt from the retribution penalties either (see Matthews' 2 game suspension for doing something that most people only get fined for despite being a squeaky clean player).

I'd just like to see them play smarter and cleaner (in terms of execution) rather than tougher. MacKinnon has been tough at times. He has also hurt himself, and occasionally his team, doing so. What made him win was being smart and clean with his play. Matthews gets golden chances and misses them. Tavares ties himself up in front of the net and doesn't get into space enough. Marner does a whole host of cringy things.

Sometimes you may have to get involved or stick up for yourself, and if they are smart about it, I think that is a necessary part of the game as well. But their issue is that they haven't been able to play through those things like Cup winning players have done in the past and the solution to playing through it is not to get mixed up in it even more. We have had some terrible luck, and they have been able to get away with some lack of execution in the past, but I think 7 years is long enough to say that they need to start acting on some more of these lessons that they've learned.

The lesson I'm learning as a fan watching this stuff happen year after year is not that these players need to play in difficult situations, play clean in the face of aggression and try to play smarter and cleaner in the playoffs... these are more or less passive, turn the cheek, take a beating virtues.

What I'm learning is the Leafs need to be the team that turns up the heat on others and decides how much of a beating their stars get, how their goalies get roughed up, their rookies get mugged. The other team needs to persevere playing Toronto.

 

[Amadeus]

ROR was thoroughly unimpressive this series and is a pretty slow skater. Not sure I want him back.

 

[Puckstuff]

Trade Matthews extended for Fiala and Danault.


Fiala-Danault-Nylander
Tavares-O'Reilly-Marner
Knies-Monahan-Jarnkrok

I'd trade Tavares as well but we know that's not happening.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

ROR was thoroughly unimpressive this series and is a pretty slow skater. Not sure I want him back.

The man is playing with a bruised leg and broken finger. He did amazing for that id say

 

[Cor]

I'm more on the "trade Marner" bandwagon, personally.

I’m on the trade both bandwagon.

Both absolute no good losers

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The lesson I'm learning as a fan watching this stuff happen year after year is not that these players need to play in difficult situations, play clean in the face of aggression and try to play smarter and cleaner in the playoffs... these are more or less passive, turn the cheek, take a beating virtues.

What I'm learning is the Leafs need to be the team that turns up the heat on others and decides how much of a beating their stars get, how their goalies get roughed up, their rookies get mugged. The other team needs to persevere playing Toronto.

Well said! Bolded part is 100% what is needed to win a cup.

 

[Dragao6]

Stop playing games

U get conner hellebuyck
A proper pairing for Morgan rielly

 

[Martin Skoula]

I will say that if I were to keep Matthews, I'd want to know whats up with his wrist and back. Something is wrong / injured there. If it's not fixable, might be smart to move on.


And on top of this, I'd be willing to bench Tavares an entire season to force him out if I have to. Hopefully he just accepts that he needs to move on.

The big thing for me is whether his wrist problems are from getting slashed or his normal toe drag snap shot is putting too much wear and tear on the wrist. We haven’t really seen anyone with his shooting mechanics play out a career sustaining consistent high volume shooting like that, maybe wrists aren’t meant to move like that 8 times a night every 2 days.

 

[Stephen]

The big thing for me is whether his wrist problems are from getting slashed or his normal toe drag snap shot is putting too much wear and tear on the wrist. We haven’t really seen anyone with his shooting mechanics play out a career sustaining consistent high volume shooting like that, maybe wrists aren’t meant to move like that 8 times a night every 2 days.

Matthews stickhandling mechanics and wrist shot curls are quite unique. I could see how that torqueing could cause strain over time but how the greatest scorer in the game can't make adjustments. I didn't like seeing his reliance on the one timer and slap shot though. That never goes in for him. If he's making that adjustment he'll need to work on that aspect of his game to compensate for what he can't do with the wrist action.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Time to play NHL Be a GM mode since these f***ers are too busy golfing.

Matthews for Cooley + Crouse
Marner + Samsonov for Connor + Hellebuyck
28th overall pick + Liljegren for Faulk
Robertson for Ferraro
Murray to Robidas Island

Connor-Tavares-Crouse
Knies-Cooley-Nylander
Jarnkrok-ROR-Acciari

Rielly-Schenn
Brodie-Faulk
McCabe-Ferraro

Hellebuyck
Woll

 

[Martin Skoula]

Matthews stickhandling mechanics and wrist shot curls are quite unique. I could see how that torqueing could cause strain over time but how the greatest scorer in the game can't make adjustments. I didn't like seeing his reliance on the one timer and slap shot though. That never goes in for him. If he's making that adjustment he'll need to work on that aspect of his game to compensate for what he can't do with the wrist action.

Ovi is the only guy in his league for shot volume, I wouldn’t be surprised if relying on his slapshot so much is part of the key to his longevity. I guess you have Kessel on the other side of the shot mechanic spectrum but the man is a physical anomaly beyond what mortal men can achieve.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I don't expect a blow it up scenario. But if they did, do whatever you can to get the pick to draft Michkov. Tavares contract is done before he comes over. We suck for 2 years to get 2 more high picks and pray whoever the core ends up being next time they know how to score in the playoffs

 

[Apex Predator]

The ROR we see in the second round seemed slow. I would be hesitant in offering anything in the 3 plus year range.

 

[Stephen]

Ovi is the only guy in his league for shot volume, I wouldn’t be surprised if relying on his slapshot so much is part of the key to his longevity. I guess you have Kessel on the other side of the shot mechanic spectrum but the man is a physical anomaly beyond what mortal men can achieve.

All in the fat wrists.

 

[Leaffan1991]

Need to do something drastic. Can't keep running the same core 4 team.
We won round 1 but honestly Tampa was a much better team in all regards except goaltending.
Need a new coach who doesn't take bs, someone who demands from all players including the stars.

 

[Americanadian]

I posted it after game 3 but I'll go at it again. I see two scenarios for Matthews that make sense for both teams:

Option 1:
Matthews @50% to LAK for Byfield, Walker (cap dump), Clarke, Iafallo

LAK can use a #1C. They will run Matthews-Kopitar-Danault 1-3C and Matthews new contract lines up with Kopitar coming off the books. Maybe add Samsonov depending on what LAK want, but I think Samsonov stays. Leafs get a young LW/C in Byfield who will never be Matthews but can be a contributor for this team for the next 5-8 years. They get a potential top pair RD of the future in Clarke who will also be on the team for 5-8 years. Iafallo is included to balance cap and Walker is a cap dump which the Leafs eat for 1 year.

Option 2:
Matthews @50%, Roberton to DAL for Johnston, Marchment, Stankoven

DAL brings in a 1C to give them one of the best 1-2C duos in the NHL and push them over the top. This assumes DAL doesn't win a cup this year but makes it far enough that they think this will push them over the edge. Leafs get a 19 year old future 1C in Johnston. They get a Robertson-esque prospect in Stankoven but without the injury history. Stankoven also played on the same team as Minten the last 3 seasons so there is some chemistry there moving forward. Marchment is added for cap balancing purposes and I personally like him. Robertson for me is a throw-in prospect in this trade but I believe DAL will take a gamble on him given their success with the family.

Both trades are cap neutral in year one but save cap space moving forward while adding multiple impact pieces to the Leafs roster.

I understand there will be links to ARI but I just don't see them dishing out prospects for Matthews right now when they are nowhere near a cup. They should wait for him in UFA and I think they will.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Need to do something drastic. Can't keep running the same core 4 team.
We won round 1 but honestly Tampa was a much better team in all regards except goaltending.
Need a new coach who doesn't take bs, someone who demands from all players including the stars.

So Keefe? We don't need a coach that just "demands" from his players. Keefe is already doing that. If you want to actually improve, you need a coach who can actually get something out of those players... But I suspect that coaching may not be the solution to that, because it is not like Keefe is not already setting these guys up with opportunities that they are just failing to take.

And all of these coaches who "demand" everything from their players, or at least the successful ones, are giving many of the same opportunities to players like our Core 4. The difference between the ones who have had success and the ones who have not are those forwards end up making the most of those opportunities. Ours do not.

And as far as I am concerned, that is on the players now. We've had a player's coach who still demands accountability but had his players let him down time after time. We've had an old-fashioned coach who really just didn't get enough out of his players. Players typically do not last beyond two coaches, and two GMs, with this kind of success without some kind of major shakeup.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Laff and Kakko are good buy low options.
Worst case they perform like Matthews and Marner in the post season.

 

[Americanadian]

Two scenarios for Marner that make sense for both teams:

Option 1:
Marner to CAR for Jarvis, Morrow

CAR has a ton of cap space and they are the perfect team for Marner. They play strong defensively and can always use more offensive creativity. They refuse to trade for rentals which is why I don't believe Matthews is a good fit here. Leafs get back a 21 year old RW in Jarvis who will never be as good as Marner but might be 75% of Marner. Jarvis will obviously be significantly cheaper and the Leafs will get him during his prime rather than extending Marner through his 30s. The Leafs also get a 20 year old RD prospect in Morrow who can potentially play in their top 4 for the next 5-8 years. Morrow will join the NHL as a 22 year old in the 24/25 season and be on a 2 year ELC which will be perfect for his development and the Leafs cap structure.

Option 2:

Marner to NJ for Mercer, Bastian

This one is iffy because NJ can't afford all of Meier/Marner/Bratt but I belive Bratt will be moved. The Leafs get a 21 year old C/RW coming off a 27 goal/56 point season. Mercer would immediately be the fastest skater (except Lafferty) on the Leafs as well which they can use. Mercer will probably never be as good as Marner but he can realistically be a 2C for the next 5-8 years while also being significantly cheaper than Marner. Bastian is a 3/4RW that brings nastiness that is missing on the Leafs. Bastian is consistently an analytics darling while also finishing top 40 among forwards in hits/60 each of the last 2 seasons. He is basically Acciari but 6 years younger.

Both deals save the Leafs a significant amount of cap space and make them significantly younger while acquiring players that will have a legitimate impact on the roster.

Matthews stickhandling mechanics and wrist shot curls are quite unique. I could see how that torqueing could cause strain over time but how the greatest scorer in the game can't make adjustments. I didn't like seeing his reliance on the one timer and slap shot though. That never goes in for him. If he's making that adjustment he'll need to work on that aspect of his game to compensate for what he can't do with the wrist action.

Is his next contract going to be based on his old shooting mechanics or his adjusted shooting mechanics?

 

[Amadeus]

Jarmo has been a Marner supporter for a long time.

I'd consider a deal around Zach Werenski, Sean Kuraly and the 3rd overall pick.

 

[Americanadian]

Jarmo has been a Marner supporter for a long time.

I'd consider a deal around Zach Werenski, Sean Kuraly and the 3rd overall pick.

Why would CBJ do that and what would the Leafs do with 5 LHD next year? Rielly and Werenski would cannibalize each other's value - it would be similar to the Sharks running Burns/Karlsson.

 

[Leaffan1991]

Why would CBJ do that and what would the Leafs do with 5 LHD next year? Rielly and Werenski would cannibalize each other's value - it would be similar to the Sharks running Burns/Karlsson.

Werenski, Rielly and McCabe on the left side would be pretty damn nice though.
Lilly, Brodie and Schenn on right