People go to the Yankees, Barcelona, Cowboys, Knicks etc. this isn't just a leaf thing.
Hell, the fans threatening players and families sadly is rather common.
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Hell, the fans threatening players and families sadly is rather common.
Americanadian
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Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
HomelessPepper
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Americanadian
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I don't see the value for Arizona to acquire Matthews for their best asset when he will be UFA in 1 year and they aren't going to be competing. If he's going home, he's going home in UFA.
As far as the trade - I like it. Cooley is the real deal.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
HomelessPepper
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Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
.
Or Anaheim. They've got quite a nice collection of futures. Though LA could potentially offer more developed assets.
If they trade Matthews they really need to make sure a centre is coming back. Either as a blue chip prospect or as a young top 9 guy
Or Anaheim. They've got quite a nice collection of futures. Though LA could potentially offer more developed assets.
If they trade Matthews they really need to make sure a centre is coming back. Either as a blue chip prospect or as a young top 9 guy
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Marner is #1 for me but I deal both of them.
We're how many playoff disappointment with them not stepping up in the moment? I mean come on...
HomelessPepper
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I will say that if I were to keep Matthews, I'd want to know whats up with his wrist and back. Something is wrong / injured there. If it's not fixable, might be smart to move on.
And on top of this, I'd be willing to bench Tavares an entire season to force him out if I have to. Hopefully he just accepts that he needs to move on.
Just a few thoughts on the coming off-season:
> Marner needs to be traded. I think last year I said that we should hear what other teams have to offer; now, I just want him gone. He's a fantastic player but he has shown himself to be an absolute boat anchor during the playoffs. He may well find his playoff game elsewhere, away from the bright lights of his hometown, but I am out of hope that he'll find it here.
> Matthews' future needs to be decided this year. We need to know before his NMC clause kicks in whether he is willing to re-sign for Toronto, how (un)reasonable his contract demands are, and the status of his health. Because we can't let him walk for nothing and, although he was a good player by any objective metric this year, he was not at the level he has shown in past years. Is the wrist healthy? Is it going to be a recurring issue going forward? We shouldn't rush to trade him, but it may make sense to consider it depending on the answers to the questions above.
> Tavares is a problem with no good options. He's not being traded due to the NMC. Theoretically we could buy him out at virtually his cap hit but that does not make much sense either. I wonder if the best choice we have is for someone to sit him down in the summer, make it clear that he's going to have a lesser role on the team, and attempt to build a line addressing/offsetting his weaknesses (primarily foot speed).
> ROR should NOT be resigned. This will be controversial but the guy is 33yo, his offence seems to have dried up, and he's about as slow as Tavares out there. He wasn't even much of a difference maker in the playoffs, minus that one goal against Tampa. He can still be a valuable player for what he is, similar to JT in that way, but unless he's coming at a deep discount, I don't want him back.
> 50/50 on bringing back Samsonov. Again, controversial take, because he had a fantastic year and it's hard to argue against a .919SV%. The question is... do you think he can repeat that? There are certainly reasons to say "yes" (very good high danger SV%) and there are reasons to doubt. He didn't have the best playoffs, struggled on the road for some inexplicable reason, etc. If he wants a big contract, or if a team is willing to trade a 1st for his RFA rights, do you consider moving him? If next year is going to be a transition year without real plans to compete, does it matter if we keep Murray around?
> Marner needs to be traded. I think last year I said that we should hear what other teams have to offer; now, I just want him gone. He's a fantastic player but he has shown himself to be an absolute boat anchor during the playoffs. He may well find his playoff game elsewhere, away from the bright lights of his hometown, but I am out of hope that he'll find it here.
> Matthews' future needs to be decided this year. We need to know before his NMC clause kicks in whether he is willing to re-sign for Toronto, how (un)reasonable his contract demands are, and the status of his health. Because we can't let him walk for nothing and, although he was a good player by any objective metric this year, he was not at the level he has shown in past years. Is the wrist healthy? Is it going to be a recurring issue going forward? We shouldn't rush to trade him, but it may make sense to consider it depending on the answers to the questions above.
> Tavares is a problem with no good options. He's not being traded due to the NMC. Theoretically we could buy him out at virtually his cap hit but that does not make much sense either. I wonder if the best choice we have is for someone to sit him down in the summer, make it clear that he's going to have a lesser role on the team, and attempt to build a line addressing/offsetting his weaknesses (primarily foot speed).
> ROR should NOT be resigned. This will be controversial but the guy is 33yo, his offence seems to have dried up, and he's about as slow as Tavares out there. He wasn't even much of a difference maker in the playoffs, minus that one goal against Tampa. He can still be a valuable player for what he is, similar to JT in that way, but unless he's coming at a deep discount, I don't want him back.
> 50/50 on bringing back Samsonov. Again, controversial take, because he had a fantastic year and it's hard to argue against a .919SV%. The question is... do you think he can repeat that? There are certainly reasons to say "yes" (very good high danger SV%) and there are reasons to doubt. He didn't have the best playoffs, struggled on the road for some inexplicable reason, etc. If he wants a big contract, or if a team is willing to trade a 1st for his RFA rights, do you consider moving him? If next year is going to be a transition year without real plans to compete, does it matter if we keep Murray around?
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BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
The team is at a critical point - either go for it again, or be willing to take a step back and re-tool.
If Matthews' isn't on board, deal him before the draft. But even at that point he's an expensive re-sign. If you'er paying that much you have to rely on him to be able to carry the team, which he hasn't been able to.
I agree Marner's days should be done .. his playoff body of work has been enough.
Sammy's worth keeping because goalies are voodoo and he shouldn't be an expensive re-sign. And Woll's emergence gives some good competition in goal.
ROR probably wants to win, so he likely walks if the Leafs want to take a step back. I agree he looks slow out there but playing with JT makes you look even slower. I really hate Keefe for forcing that. It worked for like 1 game in the regular season.. Just poor coaching. He can work with good complimenting speedy wingers who an crash/bang.
the real Fox mulder
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Matthew (50% retained and sign extension with LA) +Liljegren
for
Byfield
Clarke
Vilardi
Petersen (Buyout, $5,166,667 cap hit next season, then $1,166,667 for 2 more season)
2023 2nd rd pick
2023 3rd rd pick Pit
2024 1st rd pick La
Use pick to trade Murray
for
Byfield
Clarke
Vilardi
Petersen (Buyout, $5,166,667 cap hit next season, then $1,166,667 for 2 more season)
2023 2nd rd pick
2023 3rd rd pick Pit
2024 1st rd pick La
Use pick to trade Murray
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Agreed on the poor coaching. It actually makes the decisions this off-season that much more difficult, IMO.
Because there was definitely moments this year, especially in the playoffs, where Keefe just seemed to have no idea how to adjust or get the most out of this team.
It would have been better if we fired Keefe last season and at least got a look at this team under a new coach. Yes, we saw them under Babcock, but Babcock was fired in 2019. It is been close to 4 years under Keefe.
It is not like there was not ample reason to fire him either. Dubas was just overly loyal to his friend.
(EDIT: I should be clear that I am not making excuses for the core. They are paid to produce and didn't).
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Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
100% need to re-sign Acciari. Man's a gamer. ROR depends on the contract. Would like him to come back and take over for Tavares at 2C and have Johnny move to the wing full time.
SeaOfBlue
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I think this is really overblown. There were a lot of fingers getting pointed about him getting "outcoached" but I just saw us go up against two coaches who made next to no adjustments regardless of how their team was doing.
Now he may get axed just because the team wants to switch things up, but a lot of the Leafs' issues in this series came down to a lack of executing basic plays. Not completing simple passes. Not being able to convert opportunities. Making timely mistakes. Doesn't help when everyone on the backend except Rielly and Schenn looked terrible for the vast majority of the playoffs. A little bit of the goaltending too but Woll was excellent and Samsonov gave the team a chance most nights even though he did get outplayed by Bobrovsky (who really was Florida's only consistently good player in this series).
Keefe probably got everything he could out of his players, and we can extend this to Dubas too by giving these core guys a team that they should have been able to take further than they have. This is where they've taken us. We were close, but not good enough. Our 4th line with 2 full-time guys on it were able to convert more than our top line, and genuinely outplayed them far more often than they should have too in this series. There is only so much the coach and GM can do to fix that before we just realize that Marner and Matthews especially have to be held accountable.
And ultimately, Keefe and Dubas' greatest sins are probably trusting those core forwards to figure it out... Which is probably something most people in their position would do. But if you are going to let them go for that, because in all honesty, that would be the only justifiable reason for doing so beyond just switching things up for the sake of switching things up, then there is really no way for the core to survive too. Because you are either bringing in someone who isn't going to continue doing what they have done, or you need to make a jolt in the actual team if you are switching things up for the sake of switching things up.
In the grand scheme of things, this organization is not in that bad of a place so I am not overly worried in any case. I just hope that Dubas or whoever is in his place starts going for speed, skill, and energy over size and grit because his pursuit of the latter was an even greater sin than his commitment to this core, even though it is the latter that likely gets him killed. That being said, I am completely fine with ROR, Acciari, and Schenn coming back next year. I agree that ROR and Tavares should not be on the same line but I think ROR on the 3rd line is probably better than any alternative we will realistically find. Schenn has earned himself another shot with a mostly impressive playoff performance and he probably fits on our defensive depth chart the best out of anyone in UFA anyways; not super expensive and a guy who could easily rotate with Timmins in the lineup next year depending on what we need.
SeaOfBlue
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I don't think they are putting on the best FO guys in the league on the wing. Leafs are not a team that has their centers really be the primary puck carriers on their lines anyways... And regardless, ROR has pretty much the same weaknesses as Tavares anyways.
He doesn't need much but all of times he has trouble converting goals, he is usually tied up in front and can't get his stick free (or nobody can get him a clean enough pass). His best work is in tight, but the man has hands and can move well enough to use them both on the cycle and on the rush. When he is able to move around a little bit and find pockets of space down low, that is when he was able to score. Just look at the series winner against Tampa, or the called back goal in Game 7 last year against Tampa, and then look at where he was when he was getting his high danger chances against Florida. He is getting good chances, but he is usually in too tight to do anything except jam the puck and Bobrovsky was good at stopping those chances.
Resign Schenn, Acciari, O'Rielly
Unfortunately we are stuck with JT..
find out what Matthews and Nylander want for next contracts and if they even want to be here. So that's really big moves if they don't want to stay.
If they do, you have to trade Marner and I would think the islanders would be interested.
Pulock or Dobson plus Pageau for Marner. Pageau is a bit overpriced but he's an absolute playoff warrior. Adding a nice to 4 RHD in Pulock and Dobson would also help.
Brodie traded for a forward maybe or prospects.
Knies Matthews Nylander
JT ROR Jarnkrok
Robertson Pageau (FA or trade)
Lucic Acciari Lafferty ( I think this would be a hard line to play against as much as people don't like Lucic)
McCabe Pulock or Dobson
Rielly Schenn
Giordano Lilly
Samsonov
Woll
Unfortunately we are stuck with JT..
find out what Matthews and Nylander want for next contracts and if they even want to be here. So that's really big moves if they don't want to stay.
If they do, you have to trade Marner and I would think the islanders would be interested.
Pulock or Dobson plus Pageau for Marner. Pageau is a bit overpriced but he's an absolute playoff warrior. Adding a nice to 4 RHD in Pulock and Dobson would also help.
Brodie traded for a forward maybe or prospects.
Knies Matthews Nylander
JT ROR Jarnkrok
Robertson Pageau (FA or trade)
Lucic Acciari Lafferty ( I think this would be a hard line to play against as much as people don't like Lucic)
McCabe Pulock or Dobson
Rielly Schenn
Giordano Lilly
Samsonov
Woll
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
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Leafs fans would chew Dobson to shreds.
1) He makes far too many defensive mistakes.
2) His PP QB skills leave a lot to be desired despite being arguably his most valuable feature. He is not entirely to blame, but Sebastian Aho (the defenseman) outplayed him as a PP QB in the playoffs and the Islanders literally had a 0% net PP% against Carolina with only 1 PP goal scored in 6 games; not to mention the 2nd worst rating in the entire NHL.
3) He would be the softest guy on our blueline despite being a big guy... And it wouldn't even be debatable.
He is young with upside and he has a big shot, but he is not the centerpiece in a Marner trade. Not without a lot more than Pageau, who is far from an attractive second piece. Islanders don't have the assets to land Nylander, let alone Marner.
As for Pulock. Nice defenseman. Would fit well with Rielly. Still wouldn't trade Marner for him. Maybe Nylander, but I don't think the Islanders move Pulock or Pelech right now. Both are far too important if they want to compete.
Also, absolute hard no to Lucic. Even in his prime he is too slow for what this lineup needs, and he is even more washed and useless than he was before. He is effectively in Simmonds territory now and the last thing this team needs is another Simmonds. We need to get faster and harder to play against. More energy. Better on the forecheck. Not waste more time on chasing size and grit which gets caved in and brings down the 4th line and can't even skate well enough to get in on the forecheck and tight areas to be effective. People crap on ROR and Tavares for their skating ability but they can at least do that, and are elite hockey players capable of doing a lot more. Lucic is not. Even Tampa's and the Islanders 4th line, pretty much the only two lines that still regularly deploy those kinds guys with any kind of success, are getting caved in with those guys out there and are likely transitioning away from those types of players. Those lines are not hard to play against anymore. Maybe a pain in the ass to play against, if they catch you, but if your guys are doing their jobs, then they can't catch you and after that... You pretty much are forced to roll 3 lines because your 4th is getting killed.
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SeaOfBlue
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Jarnkrok - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - ROR - Acciari
Holmberg - Kampf - Lafferty
McMann
Rielly - Schenn
McCabe - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins
Samsonov - Woll
Trade Murray @ 50% for a mid-round pick. Goalie market is weak. I don't think we need to buy him out. I can see a team like DET having some interest in having him split with a guy like Husso, who wasn't all that great last year.
This is much of the same lineup as last year, and the rest of the changes depend on what contract demands are and whether we shake up the core. There are some question marks (Schenn, depth scoring and especially Robertson's health) but it is certainly one we can afford to keep together with a good amount of depth on the Marlies too. Or we even have enough money to completely change up the look of that 3rd line if we want some more speed and certainty on it.
Of course, we could also look at core changing moves too but the possibilities are endless on that so I will just assume we run it back again
Knies - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - ROR - Acciari
Holmberg - Kampf - Lafferty
McMann
Rielly - Schenn
McCabe - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins
Samsonov - Woll
Trade Murray @ 50% for a mid-round pick. Goalie market is weak. I don't think we need to buy him out. I can see a team like DET having some interest in having him split with a guy like Husso, who wasn't all that great last year.
This is much of the same lineup as last year, and the rest of the changes depend on what contract demands are and whether we shake up the core. There are some question marks (Schenn, depth scoring and especially Robertson's health) but it is certainly one we can afford to keep together with a good amount of depth on the Marlies too. Or we even have enough money to completely change up the look of that 3rd line if we want some more speed and certainty on it.
Of course, we could also look at core changing moves too but the possibilities are endless on that so I will just assume we run it back again
This team needs a retool, I'd prefer a rebuild but I'm realistic enough to know that isn't happening
We are to old and to slow
Experience is useful but Tavares, ROR, Gio etc looked there age and got more unproductive as the series progressed
I have zero problem getting rid of Matthews, Marner or Nylander as well but I'd want them traded for young roster players or prospects rather than just picks
I also want to get some players with a bit of jam, watching our guys get punched in the face with zero pushback pisses me off, bullies thrive on weakness and our top guys reek of it
We are to old and to slow
Experience is useful but Tavares, ROR, Gio etc looked there age and got more unproductive as the series progressed
I have zero problem getting rid of Matthews, Marner or Nylander as well but I'd want them traded for young roster players or prospects rather than just picks
I also want to get some players with a bit of jam, watching our guys get punched in the face with zero pushback pisses me off, bullies thrive on weakness and our top guys reek of it
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
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That is all well in good but I think it is fairly clear that we do not play in an equitable league in that regard. For whatever reason, conspiracy or otherwise, we get a bad reputation when we try to play or even just simply respond to dirty plays.
We push back, we get penalized or suspended. Other teams push back, and it is usually fine.
It is also proven that having tough guys in the lineup really does nothing to prevent most dirty players from being dirty as well. If anything, they get riled up and play dirty even more. Or we get distracted by it.
I do agree we that we need guys who can play through it better though. Laugh it off, ignore it, or whatever. Stand up when you absolutely need to, which I think we do (as much as we can without having the book thrown at us all of the time anyways). At the end of the day, those bullies pay by playing through their BS and making them lose... Engaging with their antics is often exactly what they want.
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