Blue Jays Discussion: post-deadline, back-at-home edition

[Beaumaris]

I get fWAR penalizes home runs but sometimes I don’t get fWAR;

Taijuan Walker Today:
6 innings
3 ER
4 Hits
1 BB
1 K
3 HRs
-0.2 fWAR

Hyun-Jin Ryu Today:
3.2 innings
7 ER
10 Hits
1 BB
1 K
0 HRs
0.1 fWAR

Silly comparison.

 

[theaub]

It Mound Visits Remaining until a pitcher needs to be replaced.

Just to clarify on this, its total mound visits remaining for the game.

Although I'm still not entirely clear on what happens if a team runs out and still tries to do a visit.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Silly comparison.

Do you spend your time complaining about other's posts?

 

[Discoverer]

Just to clarify on this, its total mound visits remaining for the game.

Although I'm still not entirely clear on what happens if a team runs out and still tries to do a visit.

Before the mound visit limit was put in place, there was always a per-inning limit of one visit for coaches (it didn't apply to catchers). If they tried to make a second visit in the same inning, they were forced to replace the pitcher. I assume that would be the case here.

Before the new rule, I vaguely remember a manager - I want to say it was Girardi - came out to argue with the umps about something. While he was out there, he shouted something over to his pitcher. The umps counted that as a mound visit and since he had already visited the mound earlier in the inning, they had to replace him.

Edit: Fun twist! A team wants to pull the pitcher after he's only faced one batter. So they jog out to the mound several times, and when they're out of mound visits, they do it again. Are they forced to make a pitching change because of the mound visit rule, or are they not allowed to make a pitching change because of the minimum batter rule?

 

[Morgs]

Silly comparison.

Wasn't a comparison. He was stating that fWAR for pitchers is silly at times and showed two game logs as to why.

 

[FreeBird]

Wasn't a comparison. He was stating that fWAR for pitchers is silly at times and showed two game logs as to why.

Holy cow Martin hitting 400 for Twins AA

 

[Morgs]

Holy cow Martin hitting 400 for Twins AA

Why are you quoting me? Nothing to do with my post, and I am one of the few that's still very angry we traded him because I read the lack of power was due to a injury that caused a swing change. I also don't really care about a 28 PA sample size where he has a .421 BABIP and an even lower ISO than he had with the Jays.

Not to mention Berrios has been great.

 

[weems]

Holy cow Martin hitting 400 for Twins AA

Yep but still no power (0 homeruns in 6 games)

I mean he's a good prospect that's a quality hitter with a good eye so it's not suprising he hits for avg even tho the sample size is tiny.

He's on pace for 5 homeruns over the course of a full season and that's quite concerning.

 

[Discoverer]

Holy cow Martin hitting 400 for Twins AA

Holy cow Berrios with a 0.75 ERA for Jays MLB

 

[The Nemesis]

Just to clarify on this, its total mound visits remaining for the game.

Although I'm still not entirely clear on what happens if a team runs out and still tries to do a visit.

I'm pretty sure that once you use up the allotted mound visits then every subsequent visit can only be made to pull/replace the pitcher. So if the manager goes out to the mount once their mound visits have been burned through, that pitcher is out of the game before play can continue.

 

[Cor]

Holy cow, I can’t believe it’s not butter

 

[BlueForever75]

Yep but still no power (0 homeruns in 6 games)

I mean he's a good prospect that's a quality hitter with a good eye so it's not suprising he hits for avg even tho the sample size is tiny.

He's on pace for 5 homeruns over the course of a full season and that's quite concerning.

Your right on what your saying. I dont get these people that still cannot get over trading Martin. People need to understand that to win a championship these days you need 3 quality starters at minimum to succeed for that goal. Look at the rotations in LAD, SD, Hou, and NYM. If you cannot compete with them we get no where. Also, if the Jays can resign Berrios long term, and bring back Ray or sign another vet that will be part of the heavy FA market. This team is set for a long time giving us an opportunity to continue to draft and develop the eventual replacements. We can then focus on resigning our youth to long term deals. Which in the end leaves no space for Martin. Groshans will be the real deal at 3B. We have Springer locked up long term. We have nothing to worry about.

 

[stickty111]

Holy cow Berrios with a 0.75 ERA for Jays MLB

As soon as Martin was traded, Freebird started cheering for Martin to be a superstar.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Maestro84]

I also think the division is out of reach (because unlike the 2015 Yankees or these Red Sox, the Rays are a legitimately good team), but WC1 should be the goal.

The division, league, and players as a whole have all gotten better now compared to 2015 which is why I think going on a torrid run these coming months are going to take much much more than it did back then.

 

[Maestro84]

As soon as Martin was traded, Freebird started cheering for Martin to be a superstar.

I view Martin very highly but the Jays window opened much sooner than one would've expected when they drafted him over a year ago and unless he flies out of the gate after getting called up (which even Vladdy could not), it will take a while for him to grow into a high impact player.

If they can lock up Berrios long-term, this trade is a success for the Jays regardless how good Austin becomes.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[SDig14]

My only problem with the trade is if they fail to execute the plan going forward.

You want to deal elite prospects? Fine. But then don't pinch your pennies and let Berrios, Ray or Semien walk if they want to be here long term. Don't pretend to be a big market transitioning into win now and then go back to being conservative.

Keep drafting and developing prospects so you have more of them to deal for help now and pay the money to keep this team competitive.

They made good commitments to Ryu and Springer, but they're going to need to pay Berrios, Ray and Semien or someone like Thor or another infielder to replace them to commit to being as good next year as they are to finish this year.

And when it comes time to pay Vladdy and Bo, don't lowball them. Write the cheque and be happy to have a winning team that will make a lot of money in return.

 

[Morgs]

My only problem with the trade is if they fail to execute the plan going forward.

You want to deal elite prospects? Fine. But then don't pinch your pennies and let Berrios, Ray or Semien walk if they want to be here long term. Don't pretend to be a big market transitioning into win now and then go back to being conservative.

Keep drafting and developing prospects so you have more of them to deal for help now and pay the money to keep this team competitive.

They made good commitments to Ryu and Springer, but they're going to need to pay Berrios, Ray and Semien or someone like Thor or another infielder to replace them to commit to being as good next year as they are to finish this year.

And when it comes time to pay Vladdy and Bo, don't lowball them. Write the cheque and be happy to have a winning team that will make a lot of money in return.

I don't think Semien makes a lot of sense going forward unless he takes a really team friendly deal or another short term one. Give him a QO and move on unless nobody seems to want to give him fair value.

The money to me needs to be spent on pitching and keeping the core together long-term. A Berrios extension needs to happen. Ray I'd love back too, but there are a lot of FA I'd also be interested in this upcoming off-season. If you're not getting Ray, you better get someone that can be at least comparable and not trying to fill his spot from within.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

With Bo gone it will give us a chance to evaluate Semien's defense at short. I think at some point we need Bo to move of short for the betterment of the team. Then again the Yankees won a bunch of titles with Derek Jeter rating poor defensively at various stages (96, 99, 00,).

 

[Hoverhand]

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Semien a big deal, but if they really want to big dick the offseason they could let Semien walk for the pick and sign Correa long term. Semien was better offensively than the entire shortstop free agency class but Correa is 4 years younger.

Either way, I want one of them at shortstop next season. It's time to have that uncomfortable conversation with Bo.

 

[ronzigato]

My only problem with the trade is if they fail to execute the plan going forward.

You want to deal elite prospects? Fine. But then don't pinch your pennies and let Berrios, Ray or Semien walk if they want to be here long term. Don't pretend to be a big market transitioning into win now and then go back to being conservative.

Keep drafting and developing prospects so you have more of them to deal for help now and pay the money to keep this team competitive.

They made good commitments to Ryu and Springer, but they're going to need to pay Berrios, Ray and Semien or someone like Thor or another infielder to replace them to commit to being as good next year as they are to finish this year.

And when it comes time to pay Vladdy and Bo, don't lowball them. Write the cheque and be happy to have a winning team that will make a lot of money in return.

I don't think this front office makes these moves without assurances that the dollars are there when they need them. Shatkins have been doubted repeatedly, but I'll be damned if they didn't put together something special here.

 

[djdev]

honestly, regardless of how they feel about martin, martinez and groshans (and possibly beltre) made this trade possible. front line starters in their 20s with barrios arsenal are rare, as long as we can resign him this team is looking really really good for the next 4 - 5 years, and by then hopefully the next wave are ready to contribute when vladdy and bo are in their primes. things looking good in jaysland!

edit: and i fully expect the jays to go out and address the 3rd(or whichever infielder they think fits best) base situation in the offseason too with a premier player.

 

[Discoverer]

My only problem with the trade is if they fail to execute the plan going forward.

You want to deal elite prospects? Fine. But then don't pinch your pennies and let Berrios, Ray or Semien walk if they want to be here long term. Don't pretend to be a big market transitioning into win now and then go back to being conservative.

Keep drafting and developing prospects so you have more of them to deal for help now and pay the money to keep this team competitive.

They made good commitments to Ryu and Springer, but they're going to need to pay Berrios, Ray and Semien or someone like Thor or another infielder to replace them to commit to being as good next year as they are to finish this year.

And when it comes time to pay Vladdy and Bo, don't lowball them. Write the cheque and be happy to have a winning team that will make a lot of money in return.

If nothing else, the fact that they were willing to make a couple high-risk moves (going to six years for Springer, dealing high-end prospects in a huge win-now move in the Berrios deal) at least suggests they're willing to go big. I can't imagine they're just going to stop there and not make any more big splashes to finish the job.

 

[SDig14]

Looking back on it, it's clear they zeroed in on Springer very early and went all in on their top target. I know the front office likely has a price for most guys in their model, but they never seemed to get a deal that made sense. We were apparently late in the running for LeMahieu and Bauer but the prices likely got too high for us.

So out of all free agents or trades next year, what player will be the Springer of next year?