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Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

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If you had to make a decision on Kyle Dubas right now, would you extend him or let him walk?

  • Total voters
    506
  • Poll closed .
Mess said:
Most teams don't replace their Hockey Hall of Fame GM after setting a franchise best mark after only 2 years after finishing dead last overall.

Inheriting a 69 point team and drafting your teams franchise #1C Matthews and 2 season later are posting a 105 point record setting season with a game #7 round #1 loss.

That is a +36 point improvement in the standings.

While inheriting a 105 point team (along with a core of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly etc) and 4 seasons later while these kids are now in their primes produces a 115 point season that's only a +10 point improvement regular season with zero improvement/advancement in the playoffs.

That improvement alone could be chalked up the growth and maturation of those core players alone.

Core Before - Ages 19 - 23

View attachment 660169

Core After - Ages 23-27

View attachment 660172

Matthews alone the player Lou Lam drafted went from 63 points ( as part of 105 point team) to 60 goals (as part of 115 point result).

Matthews wins the Rocket (most goals) and Hart (league MVP) and Dubas is riding the coattails of the best player he inherited.

Back at you :) .. If Lou Lam wasn't given an opportunity after setting a franchise record points then why should Dubas be given more time?
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Touché. I walked right into that one.

But get out of here with the HOF accolades. Nothing he did with the leafs comes anywhere close to that. That waste of words is a ploy, or as we like to call in the business, a red herring. That dog don’t hunt as far as the leafs go.

As far as the core goes, you must have missed the part Dubas had to totally reshaped the roster apart from 4 players.

The walk up to the Everest base camp covers more ground, but is infinitely easier then shorter climb up to the peak.
 
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The Dubas-friendly media-driven narrative that "Dumbass has now done all he can and the responsibility rests with the players" is truly toxic. It's as if others can't completely disagree with the philosophy by which Dubas has assembled this team, and see the flaws of inexperience in his roster construction. He has gutted the future of this club for a roster that still has no identity and a floppy backbone, meaning defence and goaltending. Team identity begins from day one, and we're trying to recreate ourselves at the deadline, like a student suddenly cramming for a final exam the night before. The players we've brought in are solid, but are they (still) championship caliber? I don't believe so, but I really hope I'm wrong.

You can have your opinions on Dubas's moves, and I get the positivity to be honest, since Dubas likes making moves for the positive media and fanbase perception, more than the actual contribution to the team. Just don't act as if Dubas can't still be evaluated on these moves, and the rationale behind them.
 
Felix the Cat Potvin said:
The Dubas-friendly media-driven narrative that "Dumbass has now done all he can and the responsibility rests with the players" is truly toxic. It's as if others can't completely disagree with the philosophy by which Dubas has assembled this team, and see the flaws of inexperience in his roster construction. He has gutted the future of this club for a roster that still has no identity and a floppy backbone, meaning defence and goaltending. Team identity begins from day one, and we're trying to recreate ourselves at the deadline, like a student suddenly cramming for a final exam the night before. The players we've brought in are solid, but are they (still) championship caliber? I don't believe so, but I really hope I'm wrong.

You can have your opinions on Dubas's moves, and I get the positivity to be honest, since Dubas likes making moves for the positive media and fanbase perception, more than the actual contribution to the team. Just don't act as if Dubas can't still be evaluated on these moves, and the rationale behind them.
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Word salad of BS.

By the way, saying Dumbass reflects more on you than on him.
 
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Felix the Cat Potvin said:
The Dubas-friendly media-driven narrative that "Dumbass has now done all he can and the responsibility rests with the players" is truly toxic. It's as if others can't completely disagree with the philosophy by which Dubas has assembled this team, and see the flaws of inexperience in his roster construction. He has gutted the future of this club for a roster that still has no identity and a floppy backbone, meaning defence and goaltending. Team identity begins from day one, and we're trying to recreate ourselves at the deadline, like a student suddenly cramming for a final exam the night before. The players we've brought in are solid, but are they (still) championship caliber? I don't believe so, but I really hope I'm wrong.

You can have your opinions on Dubas's moves, and I get the positivity to be honest, since Dubas likes making moves for the positive media and fanbase perception, more than the actual contribution to the team. Just don't act as if Dubas can't still be evaluated on these moves, and the rationale behind them.
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What don't you like about the roster construction as it stands now?
 
Felix the Cat Potvin said:
The Dubas-friendly media-driven narrative that "Dumbass has now done all he can and the responsibility rests with the players" is truly toxic. It's as if others can't completely disagree with the philosophy by which Dubas has assembled this team, and see the flaws of inexperience in his roster construction. He has gutted the future of this club for a roster that still has no identity and a floppy backbone, meaning defence and goaltending. Team identity begins from day one, and we're trying to recreate ourselves at the deadline, like a student suddenly cramming for a final exam the night before. The players we've brought in are solid, but are they (still) championship caliber? I don't believe so, but I really hope I'm wrong.

You can have your opinions on Dubas's moves, and I get the positivity to be honest, since Dubas likes making moves for the positive media and fanbase perception, more than the actual contribution to the team. Just don't act as if Dubas can't still be evaluated on these moves, and the rationale behind them.
Click to expand...

Well, it seems the mAiNStReaM mEDia shell game histrionics have fully crossed over into the domain of sports now, too.
 
Felix the Cat Potvin said:
You can have your opinions on Dubas's moves, and I get the positivity to be honest, since Dubas likes making moves for the positive media and fanbase perception, more than the actual contribution to the team. Just don't act as if Dubas can't still be evaluated on these moves, and the rationale behind them.
Click to expand...
The rationale behind these moves is that it makes them better. in his mind. Time will tell whether he's correct or not.

But that's the only reason he's making these moves. Insane to suggest that he's only done it to change perception or with the media/fans on his mind. Nothing he's done since he arrived here suggests he gets influenced by media or fan opinion.
 
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I don’t think he has it in himself to deal one of the big 3 if we lose this time around in the first round . So I’d rather get a guy who does
 
ALine said:
Timo Meier’s only chance of being on the top line here is because we traded away a better top line winger to replace him with.
Erik karlsson, while having a good year offensively on a bad team, still can’t defend, and would be the highest paid player on the team. Be honest with me and yourself, have you ever said anything negative about the Leafs very tight, and sometime precarious cap situation? Because this adds to that precarity without adding much value over what we have.

For all we gave up, we got a 2C because we have 1 80+ point winger and another all situation, 2X first team all star winger. Now our 70-80 point 2C can slide to winger because we acquired a similar profile C to play with him there. Plus a top 4D, and some depth. You understand the leafs were already one of the best defensive teams in the league right? We also needed to improve the bottom 6 and have done just that. A glaring weakness from years passed. Surely you know this?
Three full years of draft picks? Your being apoplectic, and disingenuous, for no discernible reason because that’s patently false. We have up some good picks and received some good players. None of which cost us our 1st line winger for a downgrade or a boat anchor contracted defensemen.

Sandin trade was a shrewd move to get back into the first round to draft this year, and for a player sandin might become one day, for a guy who held out in training camp, didn’t want to be here and because he thought he was better than Rielly, Giordano, and Muzzin.
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I really hope you aren't trying to tell me Michael Bunting is a better player than Meier.

If O'Reilly ends up as 3C, as he probably will, was it worth the price of admission bringing him in?

keonsbitterness said:
He has successfully led his team to a massive struggle for 32nd spot. Why should I trust him to be 'the guy" when the games really count?
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He can't do it alone.

Even though he almost did in Ottawa, bringing them to a conference finals, largely because of his outstanding play.
 
Outside of the Buffalo game (who happens to be a bottom team defensively with one of the worse goalies that night), RoR has been underwhelming… it’s almost as if his trainwreck season in stlouis wasn’t a fluke…
 
CabanaBoy5 said:
I could not disagree more on many of the things you've said. Dubas identified a need to get players who compete and/or have speed and experience on the bottom 6 and he has done that. He identified a need for more depth on the defence and he has found that. The core, which is one of the best in the league, just needed to be surrounded by these kinds of players. You need the supporting characters to advance and win the Stanley Cup.

You think he mortgaged the future now, imagine if he would have made a play for Meier or Karlsson. Yeah, you'd be going all in but at the expense of gutting your entire prospect pool. Meier would have been a pure rental, no way we'd be able to sign him without getting rid of one of the core 4. Sorry, but I think Nylander is a better player than Meier so let's focus on resigning him. He also still has all his prospects, and a 2023 and 2024 1st. Those would be gone and more. Expensive and stupid would be to gut your prospect pool for only one run at this. With the team he has now, we have a few years with a legitimate opportunity to win the Cup.

You can't fault him for trying to improve the goaltending. Samsonov has worked out ok, Murray the jury is still out. He may still come in and play great in the playoffs. You also can't fault him for not having a Vasi who can steal you a series singlehandedly. These kind of goalies are difficult to find, and the teams that have them won't trade them.
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When Keefe runs the first two lines 20+ minutes a game, which history shows he will, then those guys on the bottom of the roster become pretty useless playing five minutes a night.

Depth in defense doesn't matter. They got like nine defensemen. They didn't need any more depth defenseman.

What they needed was an elite Norris caliber defenseman.

Not McCabe and Gustafsson.

If the defense is significantly improved with the addition of those two, then the defense must have been pretty shoddy to start with.

Otherwise incremental improvements isn't enough.
 
Shanny: Hey Dubas, we need more fluid trade assets, flip Sandin into picks we can use please.

Dubas: *Trades for the worst 1st round pick in the entire league at this moment you can possibly go for, package overall less than Sandin's value*


Fans: Extend that genius.
 
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