Management POHO Staios/GM D̶o̶r̶i̶o̶n̶/Front Office Thread - Part X [Mod Warning in post 1)

[AchtzehnBaby]

They use Microsoft Project which produces a GANTT chart and/or a critical path analysis in multi-billion dollar that I've been involved with. Nice try.

Real projects do not use ms project.

P6

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Real projects do not use ms project.

P6

Sure, there are multiple different software packages besides MS Project. You are getting hung up on something tangental (what tool is used) and doesn't negate the point or points I was making. Can't see the forest for the trees. In the large projects (see #275) that I worked on, the client usually told us what software tool they wanted used as part of the RFP & Primavera was required in some.

 

[BankStreetParade]

As usual you resort to ad hominem attacks and stawman arguments when faced with the slightest pushback.

No one has said Dorion has done nothing good. I liked many moves he's made.

He added and then re-signed Zub, made a smart decision to sell high on Pageau and got excellent value, the Chychrun trade was a good (assuming he re-signs, which I'm hopeful he will given his ties to Ottawa) and picking Forsberg off waivers and re-signing him looks like a great move.

My point has always been that the good is outweighed heavily by the bad, and the aspects of the job where a GM makes the biggest difference and speaks most to their competence (acquisitions via trade/signing) are what he is worst at.

Try to keep up with your own argument, champ.

"when you dig below the surface even slightly and it becomes obvious that we're in this position in spite of Dorion's work, not because of it."

Again, I agree with you that it is in fact the point you are making. We agree that what you are saying is your position on this subject. I don't know how there can be so much f***ing back and forth when we agree about the thing you're claiming to be saying.

A lot of the talking heads are also saying that this year Ottawa has to make some noise as well. We haven't played a game yet. The potential part I agree with & the team does look poised as well. Let's hope we can put our 2C & 3C into games and resolve the cap issues without too much detrimental long term impact.

Exactly. Hence, we start judging him now on regular season results. After that, if he's still here, we judge him on postseason results. There's no excuse not to make the playoffs this year, it's time for this roster to put up or shut up.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Exactly. Hence, we start judging him now on regular season results. After that, if he's still here, we judge him on postseason results. There's no excuse not to make the playoffs this year, it's time for this roster to put up or shut up.

after 8 years of being GM we can only START judging dorion NOW?

 

[Bileur]

While he was far from my ideal target in the DeBrincat trade, I actually get why Dorion went after Kubalik. We needed more depth scoring and he got a stop gap option in the short term.

He didn’t know Tarasenko would sign so it makes sense to cover his bases.

What’s more questionable is to then sign Tarasenko to that dollar amount knowing how close they were to the cap.

It’s also bizarre to double dip with two guys who are relatively similar offensively in that they rely on their shot and aren’t play drivers who create their own offense.

Tatar isn’t an ideal fit but having him at three million right now, + Pinto in the lineup, would certainly look better than Tarasenko. He’s also got more of a playmaking flavour which would fit better with Norris or Pinto. He’s also a natural LW which fits more of a need.

 

[swiftwin]

While he was far from my ideal target in the DeBrincat trade, I actually get why Dorion went after Kubalik. We needed more depth scoring and he got a stop gap option in the short term.

He didn’t know Tarasenko would sign so it makes sense to cover his bases.

What’s more questionable is to then sign Tarasenko to that dollar amount knowing how close they were to the cap.

It’s also bizarre to double dip with two guys who are relatively similar offensively in that they rely on their shot and aren’t play drivers who create their own offense.

Tatar isn’t an ideal fit but having him at three million right now, + Pinto in the lineup, would certainly look better than Tarasenko. He’s also got more of a playmaking flavour which would fit better with Norris or Pinto.

Agree 100%.

Signing Tarasenko was a miss on Dorion's part. I was not a fan. I was very surprised when he was signed.

I hope I'm proven wrong and Tarasenko lights it up.

 

[Tuna99]

after 8 years of being GM we can only START judging dorion NOW?

Only real fans can judge him. Sorry. Not sure if you are qualified yet.

 

[HF Reader]

Maybe, but that doesn't address the sequencing question.

Do you commit so much money to wingers (i.e., Tarasenko) or bottom of roster players when you have your 2C returning from surgery and your 3C without a contract?

Professional project managers plan & strategize (use GANTT charts, critical path, etc.) the steps that are required to meet a goal and the sequence in which they need to occur. Sequencing is very important and not addressing it correctly is often the cause of failed projects.

I agree with your overall point (planning) but I suggest a pencil, a piece of paper and maybe an eraser would be sufficient to foresee the Pinto situation.

I confess I am old school.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

While he was far from my ideal target in the DeBrincat trade, I actually get why Dorion went after Kubalik. We needed more depth scoring and he got a stop gap option in the short term.

He didn’t know Tarasenko would sign so it makes sense to cover his bases.

What’s more questionable is to then sign Tarasenko to that dollar amount knowing how close they were to the cap.

It’s also bizarre to double dip with two guys who are relatively similar offensively in that they rely on their shot and aren’t play drivers who create their own offense.

Tatar isn’t an ideal fit but having him at three million right now, + Pinto in the lineup, would certainly look better than Tarasenko. He’s also got more of a playmaking flavour which would fit better with Norris or Pinto. He’s also a natural LW which fits more of a need.

Agree 100%.

Signing Tarasenko was a miss on Dorion's part. I was not a fan. I was very surprised when he was signed.

I hope I'm proven wrong and Tarasenko lights it up.

I'd rather have Tarasenko than Kubalik. In hindsight, would have been nice to get another prospect or something instead, but hard to say if Detroit was willing and the unknown of Tarasenko.

 

[swiftwin]

I'd rather have Tarasenko than Kubalik. In hindsight, would have been nice to get another prospect or something instead, but hard to say if Detroit was willing and the unknown of Tarasenko.

True, but I'd rather have Kubalik + Tatar (or other bottom 6 winger) instead of just Tarasenko.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

True, but I'd rather have Kubalik + Tatar (or other bottom 6 winger) instead of just Tarasenko.

I don't think I would tbh, I still think Tarasenko is gonna show out this year and prove to be important, but I see the reasoning for that line of thinking.

I actually thought Chartier played admirably last night and with a healthy roster the bottom 6 is fine, but our issue is missing our 2 and 3 centers. I think people are getting ahead of themselves and overreacting focusing on these wingers after one game. We aren't going anywhere without Norris AND Pinto. We need one or both back, simple as that and we might as well accept it if that doesn't happen. It would be a major feat to do any damage otherwise.

And I didn't see Tarasenko or Kubalik letting in that soft back breaking 4th goal.

 

[Xspyrit]

Seriously, it would be hard to believe that anyone who'd think that Dorion is actually good at this job, or even just "mid", exist for real.

Agree 100%.

Signing Tarasenko was a miss on Dorion's part. I was not a fan. I was very surprised when he was signed.

I hope I'm proven wrong and Tarasenko lights it up.

Dorion operates by name recognition, he doesn't know how to build a winning hockey team so he just get the biggest name he can possibly get and hope it sticks

 

[Hale The Villain]

Tarasenko signing is great in a vacuum. He's not the player he once was but he'll probably provide good 2nd line scoring. Maybe 50-60 points, albeit with some laziness and defensive issues.

The issue of course is that we just didn't have the cap space to fit him in, and after adding Kubalik we really didn't NEED another left-handed sniper.

Which begs the question, why the heck did Dorion sign Tarasenko knowing that Pinto wanted 2-2.5M? Well that answer seems obvious to me, given the 5.5M x 4YR contract he offered to Tarasenko earlier in the off-season.

Sens management and the pro-scouts are awful at identifying talent and still thought Tarasenko was a star and worth getting into cap trouble to rent for a year.

I think we'll find that probably isn't the case, especially since we'll need to deal Kubalik or (god forbid) Joseph to open up enough space to re-sign Pinto.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Tarasenko signing is great in a vacuum. He's not the player he once was but he'll probably provide good 2nd line scoring. Maybe 50-60 points, albeit with some laziness and defensive issues.

The issue of course is that we just didn't have the cap space to fit him in, and after adding Kubalik we really didn't NEED another left-handed sniper.

Which begs the question, why the heck did Dorion sign Tarasenko knowing that Pinto wanted 2-2.5M? Well that answer seems obvious to me, given the 5.5M x 4YR contract he offered to Tarasenko earlier in the off-season.

Sens management and the pro-scouts are awful at identifying talent and still thought Tarasenko was a star and worth getting into cap trouble to rent for a year.

I think we'll find that probably isn't the case, especially since we'll need to deal Kubalik or (god forbid) Joseph to open up enough space to re-sign Pinto.

I respect Tarasenko and what he has done and he has talent... I just don't think he is a great fit. He is slowing down ... His limited dimensions as a player he is good at .. Poor choice imo, to go over the cap with and not be able to sign your 3C with such a bright future.

Signing him with no roster plan in place is so much a Dorion move. The little mouse can only run so fast I presume.

I am not giving up on him but I don't know how many "good" games we get out of him with scoring or not.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

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[HoweHullOrr]

I agree with your overall point (planning) but I suggest a pencil, a piece of paper and maybe an eraser would be sufficient to foresee the Pinto situation.

I confess I am old school.

Yes, I agree. I mentioned that the software was NOT really necessary in a post a bit later (#275). The way things unfolded, you do have to wonder what the plan was, or whether there was one. The software bit was not the actual main point of the post. The main point was the importance of planning and that a good plan includes the sequencing of the steps that must occur. Ultimately I think it created a tangent that posters got focused on unfortunately. It's a lesson learned I suppose.

 

[Hale The Villain]

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Poor Dregs had a stroke during that segment but did manage to mention that they want to move Joseph but Dorion has had conversations about moving Brannstrom.

Still haven't heard anything about Kubalik being available, even though he should be the guy on the move. Disappointing but not unexpected.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Exactly. Hence, we start judging him now on regular season results. After that, if he's still here, we judge him on postseason results. There's no excuse not to make the playoffs this year, it's time for this roster to put up or shut up.

I think any GMs body of work will be part of any examination that is done as well. A POHO will be inclined to look at the dead cap as an example that has led to the current cap crunch situation. PD has been the GM for a while now, so there's a body of work to look at.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think any GMs body of work will be part of any examination that is done as well. A POHO will be inclined to look at the dead cap as an example that has led to the current cap crunch situation. PD has been the GM for a while now, so there's a body of work to look at.

Of course it should be and would be taken in to account for any assessment. 100%.

 

[Xspyrit]

I have been defending Sens fans on another forum as we are getting lambasted. I feel bad for saying this because I have nothing against Dorion as a person but in his GM role...

Another thing is I think external fans are not looking at the context for Sens fans. We are dealing with a clueless GM who rarely makes the right move and instead does stuff that makes little sense so we have no idea what is going to happen. All we can do is try to let others know what would make sense or not.

Of course, if you asked me this summer, I would have told you that the current situation doesn't make any lick of sense and "lol would never happen" but here we are today because we have Pierre Dorion as a GM in the real world. That's how bad he is.

I wrote it myself but that 2nd paragraph is troubling

 

[inthewings]

Tarasenko signing is great in a vacuum. He's not the player he once was but he'll probably provide good 2nd line scoring. Maybe 50-60 points, albeit with some laziness and defensive issues.

The issue of course is that we just didn't have the cap space to fit him in, and after adding Kubalik we really didn't NEED another left-handed sniper.

Which begs the question, why the heck did Dorion sign Tarasenko knowing that Pinto wanted 2-2.5M? Well that answer seems obvious to me, given the 5.5M x 4YR contract he offered to Tarasenko earlier in the off-season.

Sens management and the pro-scouts are awful at identifying talent and still thought Tarasenko was a star and worth getting into cap trouble to rent for a year.

I think we'll find that probably isn't the case, especially since we'll need to deal Kubalik or (god forbid) Joseph to open up enough space to re-sign Pinto.

It's the Stepan situation all over again. Dorion acquires a player for who he was years ago, and seems completely uninformed about who the player is right now.

 

[HF Reader]

Yes, I agree. I mentioned that the software was NOT really necessary in a post a bit later (#275). The way things unfolded, you do have to wonder what the plan was, or whether there was one. The software bit was not the actual main point of the post. The main point was the importance of planning and that a good plan includes the sequencing of the steps that must occur. Ultimately I think it created a tangent that posters got focused on unfortunately. It's a lesson learned I suppose.

I am with you and believe your initial point was clear (Dorion seems unable to plan and act with foresight). My response was my attempt to say the Pinto situation should have been obvious and planned for without the need for sophisticated planning.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think any GMs body of work will be part of any examination that is done as well. A POHO will be inclined to look at the dead cap as an example that has led to the current cap crunch situation. PD has been the GM for a while now, so there's a body of work to look at.

Ok. So will the, approximately, $14M+ of cap space next year with 15 roster players already signed be taken into account as well? Cause that seems like the kind of long term cap management that everyone wants, no?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion's swan song is very fitting.