Management POHO Staios/GM D̶o̶r̶i̶o̶n̶/Front Office Thread - Part X [Mod Warning in post 1)

[frightenedinmatenum2]

There isn't much point in firing Dorion in September. Had they taken over the team at the start of the off-season, then maybe it would make sense.

If you're going to fire Dorion, you keep that in your back pocket as a way to deflect from a possible bad start and bring optimism to the fan base. Blame him for the jumbled cap situation and how the injury of Norris was handled last year. Sell it as the point that the real positive changes start.

The big question to me is, whose side is Bruce on? Will Andlauer use Bruce and put out an order 66 on Dorion?, "The hockey world was baffled when Pierre signed an ageing scoring winger to a large contract after Steve Yzerman so graciously allowed Dorion to save face by giving Kubalik a chance to go to Ottawa where he expected there to be top 6 minutes available. While Tarasenko is a big name, he is not the player he was a few years ago, and his bloated cap hit contributed to Dorion's inability to ice a 23 player roster with Pinto signed. One unnamed sports franchise owner and his best friend, an unnamed hockey executive, said that this is all Dorion's fault."

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There isn't much point in firing Dorion in September. Had they taken over the team at the start of the off-season, then maybe it would make sense.

If you're going to fire Dorion, you keep that in your back pocket as a way to deflect from a possible bad start and bring optimism to the fan base. Blame him for the jumbled cap situation and how the injury of Norris was handled last year. Sell it as the point that the real positive changes start.

The big question to me is, whose side is Bruce on? Will Andlauer use Bruce and put out an order 66 on Dorion?, "The hockey world was baffled when Pierre signed an ageing scoring winger to a large contract after Steve Yzerman so graciously allowed Dorion to save face by giving Kubalik a chance to go to Ottawa where he expected there to be top 6 minutes available. While Tarasenko is a big name, he is not the player he was a few years ago, and his bloated cap hit contributed to Dorion's inability to ice a 23 player roster with Pinto signed. One unnamed sports franchise owner and his best friend, an unnamed hockey executive, said that this is all Dorion's fault."

where is the quote from?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

where is the quote from?

The future.

 

[Hale The Villain]

What does tenure have to do with results? Was the rebuild executed well? Because that's what you should be judging him on for most of his tenure. If you don't think so, tell us why. Most pundits, analysts and observers would say the rebuild was a huge success and that the team is brimming with young, star talent locked in on great deals. Now we start judging him on regular season results. After that, if he's still at the helm, he'll be judged on playoff results.

He traded away more talent than any other rebuilding team in recent history (an entire top 6 and a two time Norris winner, all in their mid-late 20s)
We missed the playoffs for 6 years straight, finishing bottom 3 in half of those years and never better than 12th worst
He then traded multiple 1st/2nd round picks in an attempt to push the team to the playoffs early, to no avail last season (possibly to save his own job)

Of course we have a bright future. Not even Mike Milbury could have prevented that given what I have outlined above.

You look into the moves he made as GM, most importantly what kind of trades/signings he has made that have put the team in a better or worse position, and it's extremely obvious he's hurt the team more than he's helped it.

The team managing to make the playoffs after 6 years of sucking won't change that fact, but it may convince less knowledgable fans that he deserves to remain at his post, despite his failures.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The future.

So make up a quote to strengthen a point you are trying to make. I see.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So make up a quote to strengthen a point you are trying to make. I see.

Lol, that's how I took it. Definitely not a real quote.

But they're probably right in general. Brucie knows what's up and he'll attempt cozy up to Andlauer and Staios over Dorion from here on out. Just not going as far as the order 66 implication, but I won't be surprised if the kid gloves come off a little wrt Bruce and PD.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lol, that's how I took it. Definitely not a real quote.

But they're probably right in general. Brucie knows what's up and he'll attempt cozy up to Andlauer and Staios over Dorion from here on out. Just not going as far as the order 66 implication, but I won't be surprised if the kid gloves come off a little wrt Bruce and PD.

A political move in more ways then one. Certainly would improve his credibility among many readers

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

where is the quote from?

The multiverse is the hypothetical set of all universes.[a] Together, these universes are presumed to comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy, information, and the physical laws and constants that describe them.

Multiverse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ouroboros]

No further information on the quote in question can be provided, so as to preserve the anonymity of the unnamed owner and his best friend, who this publication shall be referring to as Michael A and Beve Baios respectively.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The multiverse is the hypothetical set of all universes.[a] Together, these universes are presumed to comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy, information, and the physical laws and constants that describe them.

Multiverse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

So make up a quote to strengthen a point you are trying to make. I see.

The purpose of the post was to speculate that firing Dorion would have not been possible due to the timing of the sale. That even if they are at a point where they could fire him now, a month into their takeover, it would be more useful to wait because firing Dorion would be an opportunity to deflect the blame for a slow start.

The final paragraph was meant as a joke. A riff on the typical hit pieces we see from Garrioch. It was meant to speculate about whose side Bruce Garrioch would be on if they used Dorion as a scapegoat to take the blame for a slow start.

I thought the quote paragraph was over the top enough that I didn't need to tag it with silly emojis, but either I failed to communicate my point, or maybe it wasn't funny. That, or I have somehow mastered the voice of Bruce Garrioch...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

A political move in more ways then one. Certainly would improve his credibility among many readers

He would suit the role well. His undying loyalty for Melnyk was good practice.

 

[BankStreetParade]

He traded away more talent than any other rebuilding team in recent history (an entire top 6 and a two time Norris winner, all in their mid-late 20s)
We missed the playoffs for 6 years straight, finishing bottom 3 in half of those years and never better than 12th worst
He then traded multiple 1st/2nd round picks in an attempt to push the team to the playoffs early, to no avail last season (possibly to save his own job)

Of course we have a bright future. Not even Mike Milbury could have prevented that given what I have outlined above.

You look into the moves he made as GM, most importantly what kind of trades/signings he has made that have put the team in a better or worse position, and it's extremely obvious he's hurt the team more than he's helped it.

The team managing to make the playoffs after 6 years of sucking won't change that fact, but it may convince less knowledgable fans that he deserves to remain at his post, despite his failures.

You pretend to present an objective narration of events but your post is almost all emotion based. Hard pass on "debating" your version of events. I get it, you think he's a bumbling idiot who's lucked his way into the roster we have today and the players think he's incompetent and ready to be replaced. You can go scream that shit into a dumpster somewhere, if you feel so strongly about it.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Bowness as interim would have been fine until Darche was free to come in. There are many ex-GMs who could have come in as advisors to Bowness for a year.

How do we know Bowness as interim would have been fine? What if he's part of the problem?

That's why you dont come in and chop the head off

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You pretend to present an objective narration of events but your post is almost all emotion based. Hard pass on "debating" your version of events. I get it, you think he's a bumbling idiot who's lucked his way into the roster we have today and the players think he's incompetent and ready to be replaced. You can go scream that shit into a dumpster somewhere, if you feel so strongly about it.

No different than someone painting the job he has done as amazing or a slam dunk. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[BankStreetParade]

No different than someone painting the job he has done as amazing or a slam dunk. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

So the core of the team, assembled through the rebuild and developed by the organization, does not merit the GM a high grade for the work he did to assemble it? Cause it sounds kinda unanimous to me hearing pundits, analysts and observers say the core of the team is extremely exciting and full of high quality, star level talent.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So the core of the team, assembled through the rebuild and developed by the organization, does not merit the GM a high grade for the work he did to assemble it? Cause it sounds kinda unanimous to me hearing pundits, analysts and observers say the core of the team is extremely exciting and full of high quality, star level talent.

Well I absolutely think context still matters ya. I'm not even giving my own opinion here, but there's an argument they could both be in the position they're in, and bursting at the seams with a lot more and/or higher quality assets in tow. Dorion has "spent" a lot over the years. Maybe that ends up being the difference and we look back one day wondering where it went wrong.

Some of Hale's points do matter, but the argument that another GM may have fumbled the bag and not landed here is also applicable.

He is largely responsible for the current cap situation for some things that didn't work out as well, but we'll see how much that ultimately matters.

I just don't see any black and white argument here.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You pretend to present an objective narration of events but your post is almost all emotion based. Hard pass on "debating" your version of events. I get it, you think he's a bumbling idiot who's lucked his way into the roster we have today and the players think he's incompetent and ready to be replaced. You can go scream that shit into a dumpster somewhere, if you feel so strongly about it.

And yet I, along with several other posters who feel similarly, are the only ones actually examining his moves, while those who believe he's done a good job typically rely on what I would consider far more emotion-based arguments.

Certainly they are far less comprehensive arguments and are incredibly surface level. The average fan may buy them, as the team is unquestionably on the rise and has a bright future, but when you dig below the surface even slightly and it becomes obvious that we're in this position in spite of Dorion's work, not because of it.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

So the core of the team, assembled through the rebuild and developed by the organization, does not merit the GM a high grade for the work he did to assemble it? Cause it sounds kinda unanimous to me hearing pundits, analysts and observers say the core of the team is extremely exciting and full of high quality, star level talent.

If Kings picked Stutzle the rebuild would be in shambles.

 

[swiftwin]

And yet I, along with several other posters who feel similarly, are the only ones actually examining his moves, while those who believe he's done a good job typically rely on what I would consider far more emotion-based arguments.

Certainly they are far less comprehensive arguments and are incredibly surface level. The average fan may buy them, as the team is unquestionably on the rise and has a bright future, but when you dig below the surface even slightly and it becomes obvious that we're in this position in spite of Dorion's work, not because of it.

Hilarious.

The entire hockey world is emotional and wrong, but you are right.... Especially with your track record of being consistently wrong over the years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A bumbling idiot. Sure I'll go along with that.. I would not have said that exactly but its close enough

 

[GCK]

How do we know Bowness as interim would have been fine? What if he's part of the problem?

That's why you dont come in and chop the head off

Again, I have seen Dorion make forced trades, I don’t like the results. Anything would be better.

 

[swiftwin]

If Kings picked Stutzle the rebuild would be in shambles.

If the Pens didn't win the lottery in 2006.
If the Leafs didn't win the lottery in 2016.
If the Devils didn't win the lottery twice... (edit: 3 times actually!, forgot 2022)

We got a tiny bit of luck to make up for our total lack of luck on the lottery front.

The fact that we've done a rebuild in 6 years without winning a single lottery with one of our picks says alot. I don't want to hear about "luck" when we've been this unlucky.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Again, I have seen Dorion make forced trades, I don’t like the results. Anything would be better.

That's a short term view, which is exactly what gets you into binds like this

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If the Pens didn't win the lottery in 2006.
If the Leafs didn't win the lottery in 2016.
If the Devils didn't win the lottery twice...

We got a tiny bit of luck to make up for our total lack of luck on the lottery front.

The fact that we've done a rebuild in 6 years without winning a single lottery with one of our picks says alot. I don't want to hear about "luck" when we've been this unlucky.

I think this is fair. If you're going to make an argument against PD, tear down what you didn't approve of, not focus on and discredit luck given the lottery luck they've had.

Losing the lottery could probably be considered good fortune in hindsight. They may not have landed on Tkachuk, Stutzle if not, or they may not have given up the lottery pick from the Duchene deal in lieu of the next, thus no Tkachuk again.