Value of: PLD's trade value this summer with 1 RFA year left?

[Habs Halifax]

Cool, I mean none of us influence any trades and this is totally a theoretical discussion. Good chat, cheers i need to get back to work.

Agreed. Fun to talk about but after all, we are fans and don't have all the information our GM's have. I really do hope you guys go on a deep playoff run. Your coach has your team playing good team D for a change and you have the right amount of offense to be dangerous.

If Dubois is not traded to the Habs and to another team. I also wish you good luck. I've never wish the Trouba circumstance on anybody. If that happened to the Habs, I would not be happy about it.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Man why are we giving good assets up I don't understand you Habs Halifax. I respect you but I just don't see the rush

 

[pth2]

I am not sure why the obsession either. If PLD wants to be a Hab, then he can wait another year for that to potentially happen. In a year, PLD may not even be a need, and especially at the 9+M caphit he will command.

Habs are in no position to trade for PLD. Makes zero sense. For these reasons, i doubt he will ever play for the Habs unless he offers a significant hometown discount to do so.

Well, getting him earlier means signing him before the cap goes up, and means a 7 year deal doesn't include the oldest year it would if it were signed in a year.... and look at any Anderson thread to see how people freak out at the idea of an older player with a physical style of play.

Adding a core piece now also means it's possible for management to focus on other positions and gaps to be filled now rather than in a year. There's also that it seems that Dubois wants to play in Montreal right now, but he seems on the fickle side... so that could change. That also means I'd be careful not to give too much for a guy who seems to be high maintenance.

All that being said, I'm not sold on the idea of trading so much for him, either. The Florida pick, in particular, wouldn't be something I'd trade (though if they make the Cup finals, then it makes more sense).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Man why are we giving good assets up I don't understand you Habs Halifax. I respect you but I just don't see the rush

I've explained it a few times but here we go again..

1) I don't plan on getting all our pieces through the draft.

2) Panthers pick is not likely to be as good as Dubois. Possible it is but not probable.

3) Dubois is less than 1 year older than Suzuki and around 2.5 years older than Dach. He fits.

4) Dubois this summer could be signed to Hintz or Horvat deals (8x $8.5M). One more season later and once Agents know what the real cap is for 24/25? Cost could be $9M - $10M AAV range to sign him "for free". One more year can change things and I'm prepared for it but not banking on it... not if item 5 below is at play

5) Very much interested if it's a Trouba circumstance (20th pick and Pionk). Not interested if it takes Dach or Slaf type pieces. If the Rangers can trade for the young Trouba after his 50 pts season while they were rebuilding, Habs can trade for Dubois in our rebuild/transition years as well.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Crazy how Habs fans have taken PLD's agent's somewhat non-commital comments when he was basically ambushed and cornered on a MTL radio show as "he's gonna sign here in two years anyway"

He straight up started 'He doesn't have a contract, so I can say it...' which is pretty f***ing far from non-commital. In fact, it sounds like the exact sort of thing he'd say to cover his own ass when trying to force something.

Let alone that Murat Ates was saying that Dubois's been walking around telling everyone he wants to play in Montreal.

Try and keep up.

 

[Buffdog]

He straight up started 'He doesn't have a contract, so I can say it...' which is pretty f***ing far from non-commital. In fact, it sounds like the exact sort of thing he'd say to cover his own ass when trying to force something.

Let alone that Murat Ates was saying that Dubois's been walking around telling everyone he wants to play in Montreal.

Try and keep up.

Ates had to walk his piece back

His agent was cornered. It was the equivalent of your wife asking you if her jeans make her ass look big. What was he gonna say? "No, Pierre-Luc hates this shithole town"?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Man why are we giving good assets up I don't understand you Habs Halifax. I respect you but I just don't see the rush

Easy to see why if you don't pretend the NHL is a video game. There's a limit to what you give up but if there's a chance you can get the player you want early, you don't let time and possibilities fester. Dubois might very well have zero intention of signing long-term with anybody (which the Habs would have been made aware of last summer for sure) but folks here don't know that - though it's been hinted at.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, getting him earlier means signing him before the cap goes up, and means a 7 year deal doesn't include the oldest year it would if it were signed in a year.... and look at any Anderson thread to see how people freak out at the idea of an older player with a physical style of play.

Adding a core piece now also means it's possible for management to focus on other positions and gaps to be filled now rather than in a year. There's also that it seems that Dubois wants to play in Montreal right now, but he seems on the fickle side... so that could change. That also means I'd be careful not to give too much for a guy who seems to be high maintenance.

All that being said, I'm not sold on the idea of trading so much for him, either. The Florida pick, in particular, wouldn't be something I'd trade (though if they make the Cup finals, then it makes more sense).

Agreed. Remember some fans who said we should have kept the 13th pick after the Romanov trade and not trade for Dach? I bet you the it's the same fans who think it's a bad idea to trade for Dubois. Draft is important but not all pieces will come from the draft. Some fans just don't get it and think there are zero risks to signing him for "free" in the summer of 24. There are risks to any decision you make.

If this ends up a Trouba circumstance (which is what it's tracking)... Habs would be dumb to not engage. If it's not a Trouba circumstance and the cost is much higher, that's where we steer clear. Some fans are just not comprehending this well.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ates had to walk his piece back

His agent was cornered. It was the equivalent of your wife asking you if her jeans make her ass look big. What was he gonna say? "No, Pierre-Luc hates this shithole town"?

You have to ask yourself the question... Why was Brisson having a meeting with the Quebec media right after the Ates report and also after the news of Brisson/Dubois telling the Jets they will only honor their RFA years? He wasn't cornered and if he wanted to avoid it, he doesn't agree to the meeting and delays/avoids it. Brisson knows what he is doing bud and he would have to be an idiot to not know this question would be asked.

It's possible Brisson/Dubois are upset the Habs refused to trade Dach. Not much talk about this. I do think Dubois really wants to be with the Habs but what if the Habs dilly dally on it too much and offer less than the Trouba trade package? What message does this send to Dubois? Not sure but what I do know is Gorton/Hughes did have a lot of dialog with Brisson when Dubois was a RFA last summer. There is information there we just don't know.

 

[Huffer]

I'd be torn on Barron and Harris as well. Harris is smart and he knows how to move the puck and play the position. Not overly strong physical type but his hockey IQ/skating/vision is very good. Barron started in the AHL cause we wanted him to focus on his defensive play. After being called up, he's improving in that area but has a ways to go yet. His size/skating/shot and offensive skills are very good but has to mature on the D side.

Sign/Trade is an approach all teams make IMO. Jets getting their best return depends on it IMO. Sign/trades don't increase value too much but it can. How much more? Not sure. Depends on how many teams are in on him and how many teams Dubois is willing to extend with. Difficult to know for sure.

Harris or Barron
Beck or Roy
Panthers 1st (post lottery)
NHL contract (Armia... Jets are familiar with him).

Not sure we go this deep but it won't surprise me if it's close to this, less, or more. Would I complain too much if that was the actual trade? Not really but it's a value that is a little higher than what I have in mind personally. However, it's not a far reach for Jets to ask for that.

I think this is reasonable. And if the Panther's first goes lower, it wouldn't be offside to have the Jets add a small piece back. But getting a pick, and a F prospect and a RH D prospect helps. And seeing what it looks like the Sharks are asking for Meier (who they don't seem to be letting teams talk extensions with), a younger PLD at centre is a bigger add IMO. And as you've mentioned before, having the ability to lock PLD up for 8 years with 1 RFA year before hopefully he can ask for even more, and before other teams can throw offers at him has value.

Fully understand if other Habs fans would rather ride out another season and take a chance at him as a UFA as well.

 

[Buffdog]

You have to ask yourself the question... Why was Brisson having a meeting with the Quebec media right after the Ates report and also after the news of Brisson/Dubois telling the Jets they will only honor their RFA years? He wasn't cornered and if he wanted to avoid it, he doesn't agree to the meeting and delays/avoids it. Brisson knows what he is doing bud.

He was in town for the draft

And where did you hear that they told the Jets that? I can't find a single source quoting them or the Jets saying that. It's widespread speculation

Even so, his agent said he wouldn't mind playing there one day. That's a far cry from "he's 100% coming here once hits UFA"

My personal take is that PLD would like to play in a bigger city than Winnipeg or Columbus... but there are lots of those out there. He also wants to win. Unfortunately, until the Habs fix their D and goaltending, they're gonna suck for a while.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

If Dubois knows the Habs are very much interested in signing him as a UFA, why would he by pass this when he is repeatedly saying he wants to play for the Habs? It's not like the Habs won't offer him the Hintz or Horvat contract? Would he change his mind if some other team offers him $10M? Maybe but what team do you see doing this and has the cap space and assets to trade where it trumps the Habs offer?

Don't you think the Jets would have considered trading him for higher value (Two RFA years) this past summer when he told your team he will explore his UFA options and only honor his RFA years left? I'm pretty sure the Jets already tried his trade value with other teams this past summer with no bites. Now they try again with one less RFA year. I think the play was to convince him to stay and based on what we are hearing, Dubois is not changing his mind.

Why would Dubois consider other teams than the Habs when he can just stay with the Jets? Think about that... I don't think he dislikes the Jets bud. He just wants to come home. It's not like the Jets are low balling him on a contract offer right? This is deeper than just money and Brisson/Dubois knows that the 7 or 8 year deals being offering by teams interested will be similar. So then I ask, why would he by pass the Habs in this case? Like it or not, it is tracking Trouba situation

Do you have one radio or tv clip of Dubois saying this with his own lips.
Let's define repeatedly - what would that be 5 times?
Let's see/hear the 5 times he has said this publicly.
Not the times other people have said it.
Him.

Dubois value after last year is not the same as it is this year.
You don't notice that he's playing better this year.
You don't think that has raised his value.
What other good young physical 1C power forwards are available to trade for this summer?
Chevy didn't get an offer he liked last year, that doesn't mean he can't get one this year.

Plus the low end offers we're seeing from many Montreal posts are worse than just keeping him as an own rental assuming we have our other pieces in place for next season.
Think of the cost of adding Dubois at the trade deadline.
If he's going to be traded this summer it's because Chevy got a good enough deal to move him.

If the Habs wait until UFA to sign Dubois you and I both know his AAV is going to spike.
Especially if he repeats/improves upon this season and has 1 or 2 successful playoff runs under his belt.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He was in town for the draft

And where did you hear that they told the Jets that? I can't find a single source quoting them or the Jets saying that. It's widespread speculation

Even so, his agent said he wouldn't mind playing there one day. That's a far cry from "he's 100% coming here once hits UFA"

My personal take is that PLD would like to play in a bigger city than Winnipeg or Columbus... but there are lots of those out there. He also wants to win. Unfortunately, until the Habs fix their D and goaltending, they're gonna suck for a while.

1) Ates's report was early July (before the draft).

2) Draft was July 7th and 8th.

3) Brisson's meeting with the Quebec media was mid July 13th. He knew that question would be asked and he was not blunt about the answer. He could have been vague.

Where was the report that he told the Jets he would not sign past his RFA years? Media reports yes but credible ones. If he was interested in a long term deal, he could have easily signed it last summer.

Remember when the Ates report came out and it was posted on HF boards? It was belittled and then more and more and more context kept coming. Brushing it all under the rug is wishful thinking at this stage.

“Pierre-Luc Dubois has informed the Winnipeg Jets that his current plan is to test unrestricted free agency when eligible in the summer of 2024,” Friedman said. “Now the Jets have control of the process until then, and what we’re also hearing though is that they wish to keep him and have him as a Jet for a long time to come.”
Sportsnet

Pierre-Luc Dubois has informed the Winnipeg Jets that he intends to test free agency in two years, despite the team reportedly hoping to sign him to a long-term contract, according to Scott Billeck of the Winnipeg Sun.

“There is nothing that can change his mind from what I am hearing,” Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos said that day. “He does not want to be there, long-term. I don’t think there’s anything that the Winnipeg Jets can do, including winning a Stanley Cup, that could change his mind.”

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do you have one radio or tv clip of Dubois saying this with his own lips.
Let's define repeatedly - what would that be 5 times?
Let's see/hear the 5 times he has said this publicly.
Not the times other people have said it.
Him.

Dubois value after last year is not the same as it is this year.
You don't notice that he's playing better this year.
You don't think that has raised his value.
What other good young physical 1C power forwards are available to trade for this summer?
Chevy didn't get an offer he liked last year, that doesn't mean he can't get one this year.

Plus the low end offers we're seeing from many Montreal posts are worse than just keeping him as an own rental assuming we have our other pieces in place for next season.
Think of the cost of adding Dubois at the trade deadline.
If he's going to be traded this summer it's because Chevy got a good enough deal to move him.

If the Habs wait until UFA to sign Dubois you and I both know his AAV is going to spike.
Especially if he repeats/improves upon this season and has 1 or 2 successful playoff runs under his belt.

The context being reported is not gullible types but you can act like it is. The context we have come to know is very deep. Acting like these are false or massive rumors is ignorance.

Dubois is trending well. You saying I don't notice it is your own spin. His value is RFA years left. Value increases a bit if he is open to sign/trade with 4 teams (lets say). Value does not increase if he does not play nice in sign/trade. His value is basically a bit higher than the Horvat trade because it's a full RFA year, not partial.

Habs offers are based on Trouba circumstance. You don't have to like it but at least comprehend it better. I get it, you clearly don't want it to be a Trouba circumstance but it could be. I can post all the context and do it all over again but I'd be wasting my time. You will ignore it completely

 

[Snowman]

Do you have one radio or tv clip of Dubois saying this with his own lips.
Let's define repeatedly - what would that be 5 times?
Let's see/hear the 5 times he has said this publicly.
Not the times other people have said it.
Him.

From his other posts in this thread, Habs Halifax believes that if he repeats it over and over it is exactly the same as Dubois saying it over and over.

He prefers his ignorance of the situation to reality and believes if he repeats the same thing enough, it has to be true.

He just prefers to ignore reality.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He straight up started 'He doesn't have a contract, so I can say it...' which is pretty f***ing far from non-commital. In fact, it sounds like the exact sort of thing he'd say to cover his own ass when trying to force something.

Let alone that Murat Ates was saying that Dubois's been walking around telling everyone he wants to play in Montreal.

Try and keep up.

Sometimes we have to wonder if some fans know the actual context or if they are ignoring it? Hard to tell sometimes.

 

[pth2]

Habs offers are based on Trouba circumstance. You don't have to like it but at least comprehend it better. I get it, you clearly don't want it to be a Trouba circumstance but it could be. I can post all the context and do it all over again but I'd be wasting my time. You will ignore it completely

I think a lot of Jets fans are sorely hoping that our perception that Dubois is dead set on Montreal is entirely wrong, since otherwise they do have to deal with a limited return, not only in terms of absolute value, but also in terms of available assets (ie, Armia, Dvorak and Anderson don't tickle their fancy, but that's pretty much the list of contracts to pick from).
And to be fair, it's possible that he is indeed open to other options (there is so much we just don't know), but they shouldn't expect Montreal offers to reflect that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think a lot of Jets fans are sorely hoping that our perception that Dubois is dead set on Montreal is entirely wrong, since otherwise they do have to deal with a limited return, not only in terms of absolute value, but also in terms of available assets (ie, Armia, Dvorak and Anderson don't tickle their fancy, but that's pretty much the list of contracts to pick from).
And to be fair, it's possible that he is indeed open to other options (there is so much we just don't know), but they shouldn't expect Montreal offers to reflect that.

Agreed. Your last statement is key. And to be fair (more)... Even some Habs fans don't understand our interest that well.

 

[Captain97]

Similar to Horvat if you looking at a trade would be

Florida 1st + Harris/Barron + Beck/Roy/Farrell/Mesar + Salary back

I wouldn't do Barron just because we lack RD prospects. Beck and Roy I wouldn't want to do bit aren't deal breakers.

Also if the Habs are doing a solid young player + prospect the Cap going back likely wouldn't be Dvorak unless we can get a mid round pick back as well.

But I'd definitely do Florida's 1st + Harris + Mesar/Farrell + Cap

For

Dubois + pick (depends on Cap player)

 

[EveryDay]

Logan M is a non starter with the Jets, they would never take him in a trade IMO.

Thank god since he's not available, he's MTL best RD and he looks amazing in the OHL this year. He might make the NHL next year.

 

[ole ole]

His mom and dad live in Winnipeg, so it's not necessarily family. I don't think anyone would begrudge him wanting to play at home anyway. 95% of Jets fans are understanding of Trouba and why he wanted to play in New York.



See, this is your thread originally, so it feels like your intent is less "what is Dubois' trade value?" and more "This is all Montreal will offer so take it or leave it".

Those NHL contract pieces and prospects are mostly not worth trading Dubois for - Armia can barely stick in your lineup, Edmundson plays a position the Jets are overstocked at. Dvorak is at least a direct replacement but objectively worse. As for prospects, I'm unfamiliar with your system but the only ones I know of you've listed as "off the table", and I only know Mailloux for his off the ice stuff so I'm not super interested in him anyway.

People bring up Trouba consistently as a return framework but no one brings up Tkachuk this past offseason as one.

If it's the Panthers 1st, a cap dump and a B prospect, personally, I'd rather just shop him around as a 1 year rental at the draft or even keep him as our own rental next year.

This is the reason i wouldn't pay what the Jet fans are asking.
The Jets best option i believe will come next trade deadline where the Jets should retain 50% of his contract and take the best offer from a top contender. Than as a RFA
PLD will then see what is offered for his services. I see the Habs offering enough that he comes here. AKA Tavares Was offered more but went with the Leafs.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I agree with this. Not saying its a do or die type of deal from the Jets, You guys have built up assets over the years and I am sure something could be worked out. Not every single draft pick and prospect is untouchable

Exactly. I’m sure they can/will be able to find a common ground.

No issues with that, no one is saying it has to be Dach. Dach is a no from Habs fans, just like Jets fans are saying its a no to Dvorak/Andersen, both are fair comments. All we're saying is take our needs into consideration and offer things that fill a need now or in the near future, no one is asking for some unrealistic return of Suzuki+ or CC+ or anything even remotely like that.

Assets I personally like from the Habs are:

- Evans, lower value bottom 6 guy, allows Habs to dump cap without it being a negative to the Jets albeit Evans doesn't have much value in any trade at least he's useful.
- Beck
- Roy
- Harris
- Barron
- Panthers 1st rd pick, it can be after the lottery not expecting a wild card at 1st OA.
- Rating prospects IMO is one of the most subjective things on HFB, I consider all those prospects B level prospects albeit I prefer some more then others. To get a rating of an A level prospect from me a prospect needs to be a sure thing, a NHL lock and high performer aka top 6 forward as example........I don't see any of those guys as a A prospect. But I get some people rate prospects as C, B, A, A+, bluechip, etc.......I don't have all those levels of ratings.
- Also nothing saying the Jets, who have a fair bit of trade currency in futures couldn't trade a futures piece back filling needs for both teams and/or balancing out the trade.

I don’t watch the Jeta enough to know what their needs would be. I guess you know better than I (or any other habs fans) what the Jets needs are.

Out of the assets you listed, the most likely to be available are Harris and Beck.

With the emergence of Guhle and Xhekaj and having Matheson (who’s still young-ish) enough to be here for a couple more years and having Hudson on its way at some point in the coming years, it makes Harris a bit more available. I’m not sure if management feel the same way about him since they just signed him to an extension though. He’s a good, young LHD player and a nice asset.

Beck is another one who I think might be available due to us having too much talented Center. From what I heard, chances are he will be NHL ready as soon as next season but with Dach, Suzuki and PLD already established in the NHL, that will make his path to a top 6 role a little bit harder although I think he could easily end up being a top 6 center by the time he is 21. This is one of the prospect who I would hate to lose though. Hard pill to swallow.

Doubt Roy or Barron would be move. One is a local kid and the other one play a position of weakness for us (RHD) so I doubt he would be available.

I think it’s a given that Florida’s first will be included unless they go on a huge losing streak/win the lottery. What we need to figure out is what the other assets are going to be. One thing I know for sure is Beck + Florida first would probably make me balk.

Ideally, Florida’s first, Harris, another prospect (Ylonen, maybe?) and another pick (3rd rounder?) could be very close to what make sense… At least from Montreal point of view.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

His mom and dad live in Winnipeg, so it's not necessarily family. I don't think anyone would begrudge him wanting to play at home anyway.

Yes hes dad currently works for the Jets AHL team thats why they traded for him thinking that would help him sign longterm but PLD's dad wont work for Winnipeg hes whole life Montreal is home for them Dubois said it himself he lives 10 min away from the Bell Center

 

[ole ole]

The Jet's got a 1st and quality young NHL player for Trouba after he said he would only go to the Rangers.

If Florida's pick is in the 15 to 20 Range then why not that and Dach coming back?

We are not trading Florida's pick and Dach. That's a Jets pipe dream.

 

[Guffman]

Then no trade to be made. Simple as that.

We’ve been saying that for almost a year to Habs fans and yet here we are, reviewing the same garbage on a thread created by a Habs fan.

Can you guys push off and just hold onto your “free in 2024“ dream, while other team fans can actually come up with the assets for a more realistic trade?