Value of: PLD's trade value this summer with 1 RFA year left?

[TS Quint]

Nah... for what a 3C does, he fills that role well. I'm personally very content to have Dvorak at 3C as a bridge to Beck or another center who is developing.

Dvorak is not as bad as your are trying to make it be. It's border lining exaggeration in attempts to devalue. Two more seasons at $4.45M for a 3C is not horrible. May not the the type of center you prefer but he's not as bad as you are letting on.

The contract does not have to be Dvorak. But the contract you take is not one you will really value or like either. It's not the deal breaker part IMO. We are not asking you to take Gallagher

This isn’t about devaluation. Jets fans have him as a non starter. Its Habs fans trying their very best to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

He’s a 4C playing over his head. $4.45m for a player who has been out played his entire career is Highway robbery. He has the WORST Corsi of any regular player on the Habs. If this season was an outlier maybe you could fantasize about the problem not being with Dvorak but this is typical for him.

 

[Hunter368]

Fans saying the 20th pick and Pionk is close to the Panthers pick and Dach are reaching by a fairly wide margin. I agree, the closer comparison is Panthers 1st and Harris.

is it reaching?

Depends IMO

- If PLD says nope, I don't even want to talk or listen to all the other teams in the NHL and what they are offering me or what usage they have planned for me or what their team's current cup chances are now or over the next 5 years...........while I have to say thats highly unlikely any player would say that.........lets say he did, then i would say yeh its reaching a bit albeit not much. Dach started out hot but has slowed significantly and is starting to look more like middle six player which isn't much difference in value to a 2nd pairing RHD. Panthers pick is better then the 20th OA, but also depends how many teams PLD listens to and likes their offers/adds them to his list.

That being said, I do like Harris.

 

[Baksfamous112]

is it reaching?

Depends IMO

- If PLD says nope, I don't even want to talk or listen to all the other teams in the NHL and what they are offering me or what usage they have planned for me or what their team's current cup chances are now or over the next 5 years...........while I have to say thats highly unlikely any player would say that.........lets say he did, then i would say yeh its reaching a bit albeit not much. Dach started out hot but has slowed significantly and is starting to look more like middle six player which isn't much difference in value to a 2nd pairing RHD. Panthers pick is better then the 20th OA, but also depends how many teams PLD listens to and likes their offers/adds them to his list.

That being said, I do like Harris.

Not that it matters much but Dach have been a force every time he has been on the ice the past 10-15 games. A lot more involved then at the start of the season. He may not have been piling up points as fast as he was when he was on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield but he’s been a force out there lately. I would feel pretty confident to say he would be one of the untouchables in a trade for PLD. There are other assets that could intrigue Winnipeg that Hughes would be willing to move.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Not that it matters much but Dach have been a force every time he has been on the ice the past 10-15 games. A lot more involved then at the start of the season. He may not have been piling up points as fast as he was when he was on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield but he’s been a force out there lately. I would feel pretty confident to say he would be one of the untouchables in a trade for PLD. There are other assets that could intrigue Winnipeg that Hughes would be willing to move.

I agree with this. Not saying its a do or die type of deal from the Jets, You guys have built up assets over the years and I am sure something could be worked out. Not every single draft pick and prospect is untouchable

 

[pth2]

I could see Flroidas 1st + Harris + Dvorak but Dach is likely untouchable barring insane offers.

That's quite an offer, not that different from what Horvat fetched.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s the point everyone has seen it. You are not furthering the conversation by posting it for the 100th time.

You clearly you misrepresented your intentions of this thread of being “Value of” instead you want it to be “take this crap you don’t or want or need I’m offering from the Habs or “we” (you must have a mouse in your pocket) will wait for UFA.

You got your answer several times. Jet fans will let “you” wait until he’s a UFA. No more need to post the same thing.

I told you. I'll repeat it as many times as I have too. Deal with it and spare me your poster focus.

My value is what I posted. Panthers 1st, NHL contract (2 years left max), and a B+ prospect. Slightly more than one full RFA year.

You're getting upset that I am active. The information you seek is there because like you said, I have repeated it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

is it reaching?

Depends IMO

- If PLD says nope, I don't even want to talk or listen to all the other teams in the NHL and what they are offering me or what usage they have planned for me or what their team's current cup chances are now or over the next 5 years...........while I have to say thats highly unlikely any player would say that.........lets say he did, then i would say yeh its reaching a bit albeit not much. Dach started out hot but has slowed significantly and is starting to look more like middle six player which isn't much difference in value to a 2nd pairing RHD. Panthers pick is better then the 20th OA, but also depends how many teams PLD listens to and likes their offers/adds them to his list.

That being said, I do like Harris.

I believe it is reaching.

Panthers pick will not be 20th. It's more like 12-18 range. Personally, I have them just missing the playoffs so if you want a smaller range, 12-16 range. That's 4-8 picks better than the 20th pick in a deep draft that likely extends to mid range. Edge to the Panthers pick in this case. Not massive but the Panthers pick has higher value.

Pionk at the time of the Trouba trade just does not have close to the value Dach has today. That is a massive reach IMO. If Habs fans tried this angle in reverse, we would be accused of overrating our own and laughed off the thread.

Regardless, we are not trading Dach in a Dubois trade package. Not happening.

 

[Hunter368]

Not that it matters much but Dach have been a force every time he has been on the ice the past 10-15 games. A lot more involved then at the start of the season. He may not have been piling up points as fast as he was when he was on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield but he’s been a force out there lately. I would feel pretty confident to say he would be one of the untouchables in a trade for PLD. There are other assets that could intrigue Winnipeg that Hughes would be willing to move.

No issues with that, no one is saying it has to be Dach. Dach is a no from Habs fans, just like Jets fans are saying its a no to Dvorak/Andersen, both are fair comments. All we're saying is take our needs into consideration and offer things that fill a need now or in the near future, no one is asking for some unrealistic return of Suzuki+ or CC+ or anything even remotely like that.

Assets I personally like from the Habs are:

- Evans, lower value bottom 6 guy, allows Habs to dump cap without it being a negative to the Jets albeit Evans doesn't have much value in any trade at least he's useful.
- Beck
- Roy
- Harris
- Barron
- Panthers 1st rd pick, it can be after the lottery not expecting a wild card at 1st OA.
- Rating prospects IMO is one of the most subjective things on HFB, I consider all those prospects B level prospects albeit I prefer some more then others. To get a rating of an A level prospect from me a prospect needs to be a sure thing, a NHL lock and high performer aka top 6 forward as example........I don't see any of those guys as a A prospect. But I get some people rate prospects as C, B, A, A+, bluechip, etc.......I don't have all those levels of ratings.
- Also nothing saying the Jets, who have a fair bit of trade currency in futures couldn't trade a futures piece back filling needs for both teams and/or balancing out the trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dvorak has been 30-38 point guy on some really bad teams who could afford to give him more TOI in quality situations, he wouldn't get those TOI or quality situations on the Jets. Lowry (Jets 3C) is out producing him with less TOI and less PP time, Lowry is a great leader on the ice and locker room, fights and lays out big hits on a reg basis..........literally the only thing Dvorak beats Lowry at is he's 2% better at the FO and Lowry's cap hit is 1.2 million less then Dvorak and Lowry is paid significantly less real money. Sorry I don't see Dvorak as a good or even average contract when I call Lowry's contract average for a 3C and Lowry literally out performing Dvorak in all areas (but one) while doing it with less TOI and less quality situations.

You're trying to compare it to Lowry but not all 3C's are created equal. Dvorak is not overpaid. But yeah, it's fine if you rather take another contract or the Habs try to move guys in another trade. We are not trying to dump Dvorak (believe it or not). He is a good bridge for us at 3C for how long it will take Beck or Kidney to develop.

Like I said, the NHL contract (max 2 years in term) is not going to be the deal breaker IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No issues with that, no one is saying it has to be Dach. Dach is a no from Habs fans, just like Jets fans are saying its a no to Dvorak/Andersen, both are fair comments. All we're saying is take our needs into consideration and offer things that fill a need now or in the near future, no one is asking for some unrealistic return of Suzuki+ or CC+ or anything even remotely like that.

Assets I personally like from the Habs are:

- Evans, lower value bottom 6 guy, allows Habs to dump cap without it being a negative to the Jets albeit Evans doesn't have much value in any trade at least he's useful.
- Beck
- Roy
- Harris
- Barron
- Panthers 1st rd pick, it can be after the lottery not expecting a wild card at 1st OA.
- Rating prospects IMO is one of the most subjective things on HFB, I consider all those prospects B level prospects albeit I prefer some more then others. To get a rating of an A level prospect from me a prospect needs to be a sure thing, a NHL lock and high performer aka top 6 forward as example........I don't see any of those guys as a A prospect. But I get some people rate prospects as C, B, A, A+, bluechip, etc.......I don't have all those levels of ratings.
- Also nothing saying the Jets, who have a fair bit of trade currency in futures couldn't trade a futures piece back filling needs for both teams and/or balancing out the trade.

Beck and Roy are likely not on the table.

Harris could be cause we have Hutson who is having a historic age 18/19 season in the NCAA. Our LD side is very deep.... even after flipping Romanov for Dach.

Not sure if Barron is available. Only two guys we have at RD are Barron and Mailloux and we likely prefer to keep them. Deal breakers? Probably not.

Panthers 1st is likely at play IMO. Some Habs fans say no but some say yes. I'd have that on the table as the prime piece.

Others like Kidney, Struble, Ylonen, Tuch, Kapanen could be on the table as well. Our pool is full of grade B+ types and it's very deep.

Not many even know who Engstrom is. He's one to watch as well. We really like how he performed at the WJC.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Similar to Horvat if you looking at a trade would be

Florida 1st + Harris/Barron + Beck/Roy/Farrell/Mesar + Salary back

 

[Hunter368]

I believe it is reaching.

Panthers pick will not be 20th. It's more like 12-18 range. Personally, I have them just missing the playoffs so if you want a smaller range, 12-16 range. That's 4-8 picks better than the 20th pick in a deep draft that likely extends to mid range. Edge to the Panthers pick in this case. Not massive but the Panthers pick has higher value.

Pionk at the time of the Trouba trade just does not have close to the value Dach has today. That is a massive reach IMO. If Habs fans tried this angle in reverse, we would be accused of overrating our own and laughed off the thread.

Regardless, we are not trading Dach in a Dubois trade package. Not happening.

Like I said in the other post to the other poster, Dach is not any deal breaker for Jets fans IMO. I agree Panthers pick is slightly better value then the 20th OA was, albeit is huge difference likely. Depends who you ask as far as Pionk value at the trade, The Jets scouts liked him a fair bit, others not as much........not unlike Dach at the time of the trade who had worn out some of his welcome or shine with the Hawks for a number of reasons but Habs scouts valued him so I don't see much if any difference but we can agree to disagree bc as we both say Dach is no deal breaker.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't see the need for the Habs to trade for PLD. Dach has really taken a huge step in his development. May as well wait another year to see where Dach and Suzuki are at in their development. And to see who the Habs get in the 2023 draft.

Trading for PLD shouldn't be a high priority for a rebuilding team like the Habs. They should NOT be giving up assets for PLD.

 

[TS Quint]

I told you. I'll repeat it as many times as I have too. Deal with it and spare me your poster focus.

My value is what I posted. Panthers 1st, NHL contract (2 years left max), and a B+ prospect. Slightly more than one full RFA year.

You're getting upset that I am active. The information you seek is there because like you said, I have repeated it.

Great bud. you’re derailing your own thread with your dishonesty.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Similar to Horvat if you looking at a trade would be

Florida 1st + Harris/Barron + Beck/Roy/Farrell/Mesar + Salary back

* Islanders 1st vs Panthers 1st: Very close

* Aatu Raty vs Harris/Barron: I'd say it's close.

* NHL Contract (Beau vs who? Could be one of Dvorak, Hoffman, Armia, Eddy). For all we know, it could be Pitlick. Hoffman would not be far off from Beau in the Horvat trade. I don't think this part is a deal breaker.

* ?????? vs Beck/Roy/Farrell/Mesar.

You added a 3rd future that was not part of the Horvat trade? I'm open to it cause it's a full RFA year but the prospects we offer in replace of Beck, Roy, Farrell, Mesar, are Kidney, Kapanen, Struble, Tuch. We have others that could be on the table as well. Ylonen and Engstrom are two others.

Great bud. you’re derailing your own thread with your dishonesty.

Nah, you are doing the derailing. I'm having good conversations with others even in disagreements. You're playing a poster focus card and it's against the rules.

Get back to Dubois trade talk now please. Information being repeated? Sure, get over it.

 

[Hunter368]

Similar to Horvat if you looking at a trade would be

Florida 1st + Harris/Barron + Beck/Roy/Farrell/Mesar + Salary back

I see it similar also, including taking a contract back from the Habs if its a guy like Armia he has negative value albeit he can at least PK.

IMO its:

Harris>Barron, albeit we need RHD more then LHD
Beck/Roy > Farrell/Mesar, not fond of such tiny players

 

[TS Quint]

I don't see the need for the Habs to trade for PLD. Dach has really taken a huge step in his development. May as well wait another year to see where Dach and Suzuki are at in their development. And to see who the Habs get in the 2023 draft.

Trading for PLD shouldn't be a high priority for a rebuilding team like the Habs. They should NOT be giving up assets for PLD.

Completely reasonable. I 100% agree. Its weird Habs Halifax has such an obsession over a player that really might not be a fit for the Habs at this stage or even going forward.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't see the need for the Habs to trade for PLD. Dach has really taken a huge step in his development. May as well wait another year to see where Dach and Suzuki are at in their development. And to see who the Habs get in the 2023 draft.

Trading for PLD shouldn't be a high priority for a rebuilding team like the Habs. They should NOT be giving up assets for PLD.

Totally legit strategy/option

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Completely reasonable. I 100% agree. Its weird Habs Halifax has such an obsession over a player that really might not be a fit for the Habs at this stage or even going forward.

I am not sure why the obsession either. If PLD wants to be a Hab, then he can wait another year for that to potentially happen. In a year, PLD may not even be a need, and especially at the 9+M caphit he will command.

Habs are in no position to trade for PLD. Makes zero sense. For these reasons, i doubt he will ever play for the Habs unless he offers a significant hometown discount to do so.

 

[Hunter368]

Sorry @Habs Halifax I screwed up your post in error purely a mistake. My bad, I was trying to reply and edited in error and I don't want to miswrite what you said so I just deleted it. Too many mod buttons for my old eyes. Sorry

 

[Habs Halifax]

I see it similar also, including taking a contract back from the Habs if its a guy like Armia he has negative value albeit he can at least PK.

IMO its:

Harris>Barron, albeit we need RHD more then LHD
Beck/Roy > Farrell/Mesar, not fond of such tiny players

Barron/Harris would be two that would hurt for us to move but are not untouchables. I don't see us trading Beck or Roy to be honest. Maybe Beck but if he gets in the package, not sure the Panthers 1st is in play. We may swap that to the Flames 1st or something else.

Our RD is thin after Savard, Barron, Mailloux but we do have several guys that can play both sides. Harris and Xhekaj. So for as much as I would not want to trade them, They could be on the table... Harris or Barron.

 

[Boxertim]

I am not sure why the obsession either. If PLD wants to be a Hab, then he can wait another year for that to potentially happen. In a year, PLD may not even be a need, and especially at the 9+M caphit he will command.

Habs are in no position to trade for PLD. Makes zero sense. For these reasons, i doubt he will ever play for the Habs unless he offers a significant hometown discount to do so.

This is the best analogy I can make for people who don't want to trade at a reasonable value....

You have a girlfriend already....but the really nice looking awesome girl you went to school with and grew up in your area says to you 'i think you are cute, dump your girl and go out with me' You say 'nah, i'll get back you you when this relationship ends naturally'

I'm pretty sure that hotty is gone when you are ready....in fact, why would she even consider dating you in a year. You had your chance with her, she made her intentions known and you decided it was best that she waited for you and accepted your offer to date when you were ready.

 

[Hunter368]

Barron/Harris would be two that would hurt for us to move but are not untouchables. I don't see us trading Beck or Roy to be honest. Maybe Beck but if he gets in the package, not sure the Panthers 1st is in play. We may swap that to the Flames 1st or something else.

Our RD is thin after Savard, Barron, Mailloux but we do have several guys that can play both sides. Harris and Xhekaj. So for as much as I would not want to trade them, They could be on the table... Harris or Barron.

TBH I'm torn between which I would want more Harris or Barron, I like both and both bring different things to the Jets.

I'm not sure if there is a likely trade I personally would agree to if I was the GM without either Roy or Beck in it, we're trading our best center and our 1C who is 24 years old......needs to be a good center prospect coming back IMO.

How about this:

PLD, you get access to him to talk contracts before any trade so there is no risk to him not signing or wanting too much.


for

Harris/Barron & Beck/Roy & Panthers 1st rd picking after the lottery draw is done, then you know your not giving up on 1st OA, this assuming Panthers hang around the 13th-18th OA pick, right now I think they are about 17th OA pick. If Panthers suddenly tank hard and their pick gets much better well then we can adjust the offer accordingly.
Armia, so you have some cap relief and takes a iffy contract off your team.


Again sorry for editing/deleting your post in error, my bad.

 

[Habs Halifax]

TBH I'm torn between which I would want more Harris or Barron, I like both and both bring different things to the Jets.

I'm not sure if there is a likely trade I personally would agree to if I was the GM without either Roy or Beck in it, we're trading our best center and our 1C who is 24 years old......needs to be a good center prospect coming back IMO.

How about this:

PLD, you get access to him to talk contracts before any trade so there is no risk to him not signing or wanting too much.


for

Harris/Barron & Beck/Roy & Panthers 1st rd picking after the lottery draw is done, then you know your not giving up on 1st OA, this assuming Panthers hang around the 13th-18th OA pick, right now I think they are about 17th OA pick. If Panthers suddenly tank hard and their pick gets much better well then we can adjust the offer accordingly.
Armia, so you have some cap relief and takes a iffy contract off your team.


Again sorry for editing/deleting your post in error, my bad.

I'd be torn on Barron and Harris as well. Harris is smart and he knows how to move the puck and play the position. Not overly strong physical type but his hockey IQ/skating/vision is very good. Barron started in the AHL cause we wanted him to focus on his defensive play. After being called up, he's improving in that area but has a ways to go yet. His size/skating/shot and offensive skills are very good but has to mature on the D side.

Sign/Trade is an approach all teams make IMO. Jets getting their best return depends on it IMO. Sign/trades don't increase value too much but it can. How much more? Not sure. Depends on how many teams are in on him and how many teams Dubois is willing to extend with. Difficult to know for sure.

Harris or Barron
Beck or Roy
Panthers 1st (post lottery)
NHL contract (Armia... Jets are familiar with him).

Not sure we go this deep but it won't surprise me if it's close to this, less, or more. Would I complain too much if that was the actual trade? Not really but it's a value that is a little higher than what I have in mind personally. However, it's not a far reach for Jets to ask for that.

 

[Hunter368]

I'd be torn on Barron and Harris as well. Harris is smart and he knows how to move the puck and play the position. Not overly strong physical type but his hockey IQ/skating/vision is very good. Barron started in the AHL cause we wanted him to focus on his defensive play. After being called up, he's improving in that area but has a ways to go yet. His size/skating/shot and offensive skills are very good but has to mature on the D side.

Sign/Trade is an approach all teams make IMO. Jets getting their best return depends on it IMO. Sign/trades don't increase value too much but it can. How much more? Not sure. Depends on how many teams are in on him and how many teams Dubois is willing to extend with. Difficult to know for sure.

Harris or Barron
Beck or Roy
Panthers 1st (post lottery)
NHL contract (Armia... Jets are familiar with him).

Not sure we go this deep but it won't surprise me if it's close to this, less, or more. Would I complain too much if that was the actual trade? Not really but it's a value that is a little higher than what I have in mind personally. However, it's not a far reach for Jets to ask for that.

Cool, I mean none of us influence any trades and this is totally a theoretical discussion. Good chat, cheers i need to get back to work.