Value of: PLD's trade value this summer with 1 RFA year left?

[Habs Halifax]

The comments were, sure he would love to play for the Habs or something similar, which of course most players would like to play for their home town but many don't do to money and other benefits.

Some Habs fans are acting like the Jets fans are asking for Suzuki+ (full value) which none of us are. If Habs want to dump Andersen and/or Dvorak due to cap reasons so they can sign younger Habs players and maybe PLD.........then simply trade them to some other team. Make an offer without one of those guys in the offer, Jets fans are sneakily trying to lower any value on either of those players we simply don't want them so people should stop trying to force a trade that is a poor fit and should just change the offer.

I think Armia is a logical piece going the other way. Jets know him well and $3.4M for two seasons is not horrible for a 3rd line guy. 11 pts with 4 goals in 37 games prorates to 24 pts and 9 goals. Seems shitty but he offers more on the ice with his size/forecheck than just looking at points. His career numbers are 29 pts and 14 goals. That's not a terrible contract at $3.4M for 2 seasons. Not ideal but not terrible is how I would describe it.

I know Gorton/Hughes are trying to get another 1st at this deadline but not sure they can at this point. Maybe someone offers us our asking price on Anderson and if that happens, we can use the futures in the Dubois trade and not send a contract back.

The contract going back (or not) is not a deal breaker IMO. There are many other options we can explore

 

[Snowman]

Pick one... Dvorak, Eddy, or Armia. You will be taking back a contract in any Dubois trade.

I'm actually content if we keep Dvorak at 3C. He's a good bridge for Beck's development. So then it's Eddy or Armia. Don't like that? Hoffman. We are not asking you to take on Gallagher bud. Won't even try. Would Anderson be involved? Possible. If Anderson is involved, the Panthers 1st is likely off the table. But I suspect you don't like the idea of taking Anderson as well. If we can't agree on the contract going the other way, then what? You try with other teams and the futures offered is less value?

Complain about the contract going back all day long. It's meaningless cause we have a flat cap and teams just can't fit in $8.5M+ that easily without sending a contract the other way. Beauvillier in the Horvat trade is one example of that.

As Jet fans have said before, Montreal's cap mismanagement problems are their issue, not Winnipeg's. No matter how much you wish it, the Jets have no obligation to take on dead cap from Montreal. You either move them elsewhere or if you want the Jets to take dead cap back, then you'll need to pay them to do so.

That would be Winnipeg's final offer on dead cap. Take it or leave it.

 

[Hunter368]

Not sure what the Habs or other fans would do but the contract going the other way (Dvorak, Eddy, or Armia) is not pieces we will take value credit for. Panthers 1st would be the prime piece we offer. Then a Grade B+ type on top. That's likely as far as we reach cause we are still in rebuild/transition years even if we add Dubois.

I get that the Jets feel like they deserve more. I would feel the same but this is clearly a leverage strategy the Habs will engage on. If the Trouba leverage is there. What do other GM's think when they hear Dubois wants to play for the Habs? Not sure but any team trading for him will likely want sign/trade and not take the chance the Jets tried with trying to convince him to stay. I do see GM's considering the one RFA year but in this case, the offers are less IMO. Probably late 1st and B+ prospect offers.

Habs strategy is to offer slightly more than one full RFA year in value. Panthers 1st (12-18) range is a good starting piece. Some Habs fans would not even offer it. Not sure what Gorton/Hughes offer to be honest.

Literally this has nothing to do with "deserving more" its pure business, I've stated a bunch of times Jets fans know they aren't getting full value literally no one is asking for that. What I've suggested multi times is using PLD's trade value at next years TDL as the basis to start any conversations on return or value bc multi teams would jump at PLD next TDL especially if the Jets retain 50% and they get a PPG (or nearly) physical center super cheap cap wise to help them push for the cup:

- If he's traded during the summer his value only increases by some amount

- If multi teams are bidding this summer it will increase his value

- Habs don't have to offer full value and no one is expecting them to, but they do have to make the most attractive offer that Chevy gets.

- Any GM trading for PLD this summer will want access to PLD agent beforehand to talk contracts & usage.........you think PLD is going to say no to multi teams offering him money and talking to him about usage on their team? Of course he isn't going to say no, he will absolutely listen and make whatever decision he feels is best for him, the only logical answer. Some of those offers will be in USA, if not all of them and some will have warm beaches and tax free states. Does that mean he wants the Habs or some other team, no one knows but all the Jets need is one other offer/team PLD is interested in and all the leverage Habs fans think they will have is gone or at least significantly less. It's going to be a fun summer for Jets fans and some lucky fan base will likely get PLD via trade, yet to be seen who that team is......Habs or someone else.

 

[Hunter368]

I think Armia is a logical piece going the other way. Jets know him well and $3.4M for two seasons is not horrible for a 3rd line guy. 11 pts with 4 goals in 37 games prorates to 24 pts and 9 goals. Seems shitty but he offers more on the ice with his size/forecheck than just looking at points. His career numbers are 29 pts and 14 goals. That's not a terrible contract at $3.4M for 2 seasons. Not ideal but not terrible is how I would describe it.

I know Gorton/Hughes are trying to get another 1st at this deadline but not sure they can at this point. Maybe someone offers us our asking price on Anderson and if that happens, we can use the futures in the Dubois trade and not send a contract back.

The contract going back (or not) is not a deal breaker IMO. There are many other options we can explore

GM's can get very creative when they want to I agree, Armia adds no value, not trying to Armia at lower value just no interest in him period at his cap hit. Not saying he couldn't be included in a trade but he adds no value to it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Literally this has nothing to do with "deserving more" its pure business, I've stated a bunch of times Jets fans know they aren't getting full value literally no one is asking for that. What I've suggested multi times is using PLD's trade value at next years TDL as the basis to start any conversations on return or value bc multi teams would jump at PLD next TDL especially if the Jets retain 50% and they get a PPG (or nearly) physical center super cheap cap wise to help them push for the cup:

- If he's traded during the summer his value only increases by some amount

- If multi teams are bidding this summer it will increase his value

- Habs don't have to offer full value and no one is expecting them to, but they do have to make the most attractive offer that Chevy gets.

- Any GM trading for PLD this summer will want access to PLD agent beforehand to talk contracts & usage.........you think PLD is going to say no to multi teams offering him money and talking to him about usage on their team? Of course he isn't going to say no, he will absolutely listen and make whatever decision he feels is best for him, the only logical answer. Some of those offers will be in USA, if not all of them and some will have warm beaches and tax free states. Does that mean he wants the Habs or some other team, no one knows but all the Jets need is one other offer/team PLD is interested in and all the leverage Habs fans think they will have is gone or at least significantly less. It's going to be a fun summer for Jets fans and some lucky fan base will likely get PLD via trade, yet to be seen who that team is......Habs or someone else.

If Dubois knows he will get the 7 or 8 year offer in the $8M - $9M range, he won't by pass it because other teams are offering it too. There is way too much context to ignore in terms of Dubois wanting to play for the Habs.

Asked out of Columbus and told the Jets he will explore his UFA options this past summer... news that came right around the time of the Dubois wants to play for the Habs information. Doesn't appear to want to change his mind.

I think Dubois would sign with the Jets if he didn't want to play for the Habs. Jets would be high on his list compared to any other team other than the Habs. That's how I feel about it.

GM's can get very creative when they want to I agree, Armia adds no value, not trying to Armia at lower value just no interest in him period at his cap hit. Not saying he couldn't be included in a trade but he adds no value to it.

We agree on this part. The focus should be the prime piece. I'm pretty sure like the Panthers pick if you can't get a young player like Dach offered from other teams. Habs won't offer Dach and I'm pretty sure they talked on draft day on a Dubois trade where the Jets asked for Dach.

If another team offers a Dach piece and are able to convince Dubois to sign a long term extension, I don't see the Habs going higher. We are interested but not desperate. Our best play is the Panthers 1st.

 

[Natey]

If Dubois REALLY wants to play for Montreal (I'd still be shocked to see it as a Montreal fan), the Jets are probably better to hold off and get a ransom from a playoff push team then settling for a package from Montreal where they'd probably have to take back some money.

 

[Hunter368]

If Dubois knows he will get the 7 or 8 year offer in the $8M - $9M range, he won't by pass it because other teams are offering it too. There is way too much context to ignore in terms of Dubois wanting to play for the Habs.

Asked out of Columbus and told the Jets he will explore his UFA options this past summer... news that came right around the time of the Dubois wants to play for the Habs information. Doesn't appear to want to change his mind.

I think Dubois would sign with the Jets if he didn't want to play for the Habs. Jets would be high on his list compared to any other team other than the Habs. That's how I feel about it.

No doubt Habs will be high on his list, not saying otherwise. But PLD still hasn't heard all the other teams offers and from their GM's..............when you get one person viewing your house for sale and get a offer, it often seems nice. Then when 10 more people view your house and get 5 more offers suddenly that first offer might not sound as good..........time will tell neither of us knows how it will play out. But it only takes one more team that that PLD is interested in and that change the entire dynamic of the situation.

Anyone thinking PLD signs a long term deal at this stage that starts with an 8, is going to be disappointed. Cap is going up next year and likely the year after that. PLD has had a break out year this year and likely will only continue to progress being only 24 years old. I suspect his agent starting demands will be starting with a 1, not an 8 and likely end up in the mid to high 9 range. PLD is going to be a very rich man, especially if he plays in a tax free state.

 

[Buffdog]

Lots of Habs fans in here sound as sure that PLD is gonna sign in MTL as that one Wings fan was that Trouba would only sign in Detroit lol

 

[TS Quint]

It's a real legit rumor which is why I created the thread. This story is not going away.

Habs are only interested if we have the Trouba leverage and trade value. If you want higher, we let you try and sit back waiting for a phone call back. If the phone don't ring, we are fine and will take our chances he reaches UFA. If he does a sign/trade with another team, we let him. We are interested in Dubois but not desperate. Habs are in rebuild/transition. Dubois fits but we are not emotionally tied to only him as an option with Suzuki up the middle.

I feel for the Jets but this is business. You would do the same to us if the situation was reversed.

How many times can you write the same post?

 

[Hunter368]

Lots of Habs fans in here sound as sure that PLD is gonna sign in MTL as that one Wings fan was that Trouba would only sign in Detroit lol

Personally i don't care where he ends up, Habs or otherwise I literally don't care if its not on the Jets. All i care about is the Jets getting whatever the best offer ends being is.......

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The Jet's got a 1st and quality young NHL player for Trouba after he said he would only go to the Rangers.

If Florida's pick is in the 15 to 20 Range then why not that and Dach coming back?

 

[TS Quint]

Lots of Habs fans in here sound as sure that PLD is gonna sign in MTL as that one Wings fan was that Trouba would only sign in Detroit lol

Lol, I believe it was Detroit, then Florida and then “see I told you it would be New York”!!

 

[Captain97]

Dvorak is below Lowry on our roster......Dvorak would have to play 4C or 3rd line wing........even playing 3rd line wing he's overpaid. Can't or certainly undesirable to pay 3rd liners wingers 4.5 million for low offensive out put.

Okay but he isn't overpaid, I'm not talking about his fit I'm arguing the he's overpaid narrative. He's a 15-20 goal 35-40 point centre who wins faceoffs. Those players cost 4-5 million now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How many times can you write the same post?

As many as I have to. Not my problem you don't like it.

 

[Captain97]

The Jet's got a 1st and quality young NHL player for Trouba after he said he would only go to the Rangers.

If Florida's pick is in the 15 to 20 Range then why not that and Dach coming back?

The Habs just acquired Dach I doubt they trade him. He's also looking to be coming into his own. He's out of the lineup now but has looked great.

Also Flroidas pick has been hovering around #10. So a 10-12th overall pick + player we just acquired for a 13th overall pick. The Habs aren't trading two top 15 picks for a player who wants to come here.

I could see Flroidas 1st + Harris + Dvorak but Dach is likely untouchable barring insane offers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Jet's got a 1st and quality young NHL player for Trouba after he said he would only go to the Rangers.

If Florida's pick is in the 15 to 20 Range then why not that and Dach coming back?

* Panthers pick (12-18 range) > 20th pick.
* Dach >> Pionk

Closer offer is Panthers 1st and Harris. Habs are not trading Dach who is trending well with us and looking like the guy we thought he could be on draft day.

Trouba had a 50 pts season as a D man. Dubois is on pace for a 79 pts season.

Habs will offer slightly more than a full RFA year of trade value. Dach won't be offered. Sorry. If another team offers it, we let them.

 

[Snowman]

The Habs just acquired Dach I doubt they trade him. He's also looking to be coming into his own. He's out of the lineup now but has looked great.

Also Flroidas pick has been hovering around #10. So a 10-12th overall pick + player we just acquired for a 13th overall pick. The Habs aren't trading two top 15 picks for a player who wants to come here.

I could see Flroidas 1st + Harris + Dvorak but Dach is likely untouchable barring insane offers.

You'll need to pay the Jets to take Dvorak. He's dead cap and will require Winnipeg to be compensated.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Then they likely trade him to a team that will pay more. I can see a few teams that will want a shot at him and probably could convince him to sign long term

 

[TS Quint]

Okay but he isn't overpaid, I'm not talking about his fit I'm arguing the he's overpaid narrative. He's a 15-20 goal 35-40 point centre who wins faceoffs. Those players cost 4-5 million now.

And is dominated on the ice. he plays the game in his own end. He’s not good And he is very overpaid. Even with his faceoff ability he get destroyed in shot share.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The Habs just acquired Dach I doubt they trade him. He's also looking to be coming into his own. He's out of the lineup now but has looked great.

Also Flroidas pick has been hovering around #10. So a 10-12th overall pick + player we just acquired for a 13th overall pick. The Habs aren't trading two top 15 picks for a player who wants to come here.

I could see Flroidas 1st + Harris + Dvorak but Dach is likely untouchable barring insane offers.

Fans saying the 20th pick and Pionk is close to the Panthers pick and Dach are reaching by a fairly wide margin. I agree, the closer comparison is Panthers 1st and Harris.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Doubt the Jets trade PLD this season based on how they are playing. Looks like playoffs this season. However, what's going to happen this summer?

PLD recently said it's not out of the question he can stay with the Jets and resign but when I look at the direction, it looks like a rebuild or mini reset is in the future cards?

* PLD has one RFA year left
* Scheifele has 1 year in term left then UFA
* Hellebuyck has 1 year left in term then UFA
* Wheeler has 1 year left in term then UFA
* Ehlers has 2 years left then UFA
* Key parts signs past 2 more years are Connor and Morrissey

Based on structure on contracts with PLD first to extend (possibly), I think he still forces his way to UFA. If the Jets trade him this summer (Maybe draft day), what is his value?

Is Debrincat for the 7th pick close in value? Jets are not strangers to trading someone with one RFA year left that wants out... Trouba returned the 20th pick and Poink.

Are all people supposed to remember what PLD stands for?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Are all people supposed to remember what PLD stands for?

Yes. Most who know anything about the player yeah.

 

[TS Quint]

As many as I have to. Not my problem you don't like it.

That’s the point everyone has seen it. You are not furthering the conversation by posting it for the 100th time.

You clearly you misrepresented your intentions of this thread of being “Value of” instead you want it to be “take this crap you don’t or want or need I’m offering from the Habs or “we” (you must have a mouse in your pocket) will wait for UFA.

You got your answer several times. Jet fans will let “you” wait until he’s a UFA. No more need to post the same thing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And is dominated on the ice. he plays the game in his own end. He’s not good And he is very overpaid. Even with his faceoff ability he get destroyed in shot share.

Nah... for what a 3C does, he fills that role well. I'm personally very content to have Dvorak at 3C as a bridge to Beck or another center who is developing.

Dvorak is not as bad as your are trying to make it be. It's border lining exaggeration in attempts to devalue. Two more seasons at $4.45M for a 3C is not horrible. May not the the type of center you prefer but he's not as bad as you are letting on.

The contract does not have to be Dvorak. But the contract you take is not one you will really value or like either. It's not the deal breaker part IMO. We are not asking you to take Gallagher

 

[Hunter368]

Okay but he isn't overpaid, I'm not talking about his fit I'm arguing the he's overpaid narrative. He's a 15-20 goal 35-40 point centre who wins faceoffs. Those players cost 4-5 million now.

Dvorak has been 30-38 point guy on some really bad teams who could afford to give him more TOI in quality situations, he wouldn't get those TOI or quality situations on the Jets. Lowry (Jets 3C) is out producing him with less TOI and less PP time, Lowry is a great leader on the ice and locker room, fights and lays out big hits on a reg basis..........literally the only thing Dvorak beats Lowry at is he's 2% better at the FO and Lowry's cap hit is 1.2 million less then Dvorak and Lowry is paid significantly less real money. Sorry I don't see Dvorak as a good or even average contract when I call Lowry's contract average for a 3C and Lowry literally out performing Dvorak in all areas (but one) while doing it with less TOI and less quality situations.