Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think most people agreed 20-25 goals 50-60 points would be a reasonable bar for "great success" for Kovy. He was headed well for that before Willie D and STILL paced for 20 goals, 45 points on an abysmal Kings team.

Edit: Had he played 82 and hit the 45 he paced for, he would have been tied with Drew for 3rd in scoring, behind Brown and Kopitar.

 

[kovacro]

Dragooooooooooooooooooooo!

Makes me want to go hit the gym and get a workout in.

 

[Bandit]

Dragooooooooooooooooooooo!

Makes me want to go hit the gym and get a workout in.

But instead you're just gonna sit on the couch and eat cheesy poofs?

 

[BigKing]

I think most people agreed 20-25 goals 50-60 points would be a reasonable bar for "great success" for Kovy. He was headed well for that before Willie D and STILL paced for 20 goals, 45 points on an abysmal Kings team.

Edit: Had he played 82 and hit the 45 he paced for, he would have been tied with Drew for 3rd in scoring, behind Brown and Kopitar.

The problem is he's like a designated hitter on a team with no pitching, fielding or any other decent hitters. Tits on a bull.

Is only a fit on a team that just needs a little more offense and is a Cup contender. Blake signed him for three seasons based on the dead cat bounce that was 2018. Blake missed by a mile on this one and now has a 36 year old, slightly-washed winger at $6MM on a rebuilding team.

I don't even dislike the player and hope he can provide some sort of entertainment this upcoming season but he is completely pointless in regards to where the franchise is at.

 

[crassbonanza]

I don't even dislike the player and hope he can provide some sort of entertainment this upcoming season but he is completely pointless in regards to where the franchise is at.

Well, I mean you just explained why he is not pointless, the franchise still needs to provide some entertainment and Kovalchuk provides it.

He was a calculated risk that cost the team nothing other than cap space, these are the exact risks you want your GM taking. Since the team did not maintain as a contender they now have a solid veteran who could potentially be moved at some point in the future and essentially no negative consequences from the signing.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The problem is he's like a designated hitter on a team with no pitching, fielding or any other decent hitters. **** on a bull.

Is only a fit on a team that just needs a little more offense and is a Cup contender. Blake signed him for three seasons based on the dead cat bounce that was 2018. Blake missed by a mile on this one and now has a 36 year old, slightly-washed winger at $6MM on a rebuilding team.

I don't even dislike the player and hope he can provide some sort of entertainment this upcoming season but he is completely pointless in regards to where the franchise is at.

I agree. Just pointing out there's this myth that he's terrible/washed up or something when he was basically right on target for what anyone had reasonably hoped for despite getting Don Cherry'ed by Willie D.

 

[dman3474]

Look at what teams got last year at the trade deadline for a 50ish point guy, at worst we should be able to get a 2nd and a 3rd round pick. Thats even before factoring in another year and that we can retain money. how much would someone pay for a player thats going to score 40-50 and only cost 3 mil? an asset that didn't cost anything to acquire might be able to return us a couple more good picks/prospects shouldn't be bitched about.

 

[BigKing]

I agree. Just pointing out there's this myth that he's terrible/washed up or something when he was basically right on target for what anyone had reasonably hoped for despite getting Don Cherry'ed by Willie D.

The problem with just looking at points scored projections is ignoring his major shortcomings on defense and with turnovers, although the latter is off of memory so correct me if the stats show otherwise.

He isn't getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year at the deadline because next year is still attached to it: even with retention. It would take a major bounce-back in the areas of his game that were very lacking last season for a team to want to attach itself to him for another full 82.

As for him not being pointless because he provides entertainment: he doesn't provide $6MM worth of it. You can toss MacD out there for peanuts to provide entertainment. As it stands, he's going to go out there and do some stuff, the team will still suck and he will most likely block some kid from getting more minutes which--for entertainment purposes--is really all we have going for us: minutes for young players.

Since it doesn't appear he is going anywhere, I hope he dispy-doodles his ass all over the offensive zone, cherry-picks and blasts one-timers on the power play. I'm also fine with him being shipped out for future considerations.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Kovalchuk came in and had 14 points in 15 games. (something like that, know that is close) He was not even playing with Kopitar and most of the points were even strength. What does this prove?
It proves he could play NHL hockey at a high level still...and was #1 or #2 in scoring on the team and not playing top line and the points were not PP padded. he also demonstrated he may still be BEST ON EARTH on shootouts. BFD? No! NOT BFD.
F'ing impressive. He's still in top shape, can skate, can score. He's not responsible on D. I think they should work with him with the system. Carter and Toffoli are not effective on D either
and 1 reason the PK was like last...they were one of the units. If Kovy plays with Kopitar and Brown, will have the puck more anyway.

So what happened?

1. WD happened. Dumazz.
2. Kopi whiny baby insisted on having Iafallo on his LW. Bullshit. Kovy not got a chance to play with Kopitar.
3. Kovy had that ankle surgery. Probably did not help and was already playing shtt minutes with AHL level players on lines 3 and 4.

What should happen?

He should get a shot at ##1 LW or at least #2 line and play with Prokhorkin on his line, as one linemate.
It's time to move Iafallo off the #1 line, no mater what...maybe Prokhorkin can be #1 LW?
Maybe Kovy gets a little trade value and can go to a playoff team at deadline...will only be 1 yr left.

I think TM will at least give him a fair shake.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The problem with just looking at points scored projections is ignoring his major shortcomings on defense and with turnovers, although the latter is off of memory so correct me if the stats show otherwise.

He isn't getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick this year at the deadline because next year is still attached to it: even with retention. It would take a major bounce-back in the areas of his game that were very lacking last season for a team to want to attach itself to him for another full 82.

As for him not being pointless because he provides entertainment: he doesn't provide $6MM worth of it. You can toss MacD out there for peanuts to provide entertainment. As it stands, he's going to go out there and do some stuff, the team will still suck and he will most likely block some kid from getting more minutes which--for entertainment purposes--is really all we have going for us: minutes for young players.

Since it doesn't appear he is going anywhere, I hope he dispy-doodles his ass all over the offensive zone, cherry-picks and blasts one-timers on the power play. I'm also fine with him being shipped out for future considerations.

Oh no, I'm definitely under no delusion that he provides additional value without the puck. He's been a flat-out liability, which I agree was the bigger problem.

I believe the philosophy was you take the #1 defensive team with zero shortage of defensively-aware forwards and add a wildcard offensive player...sound in theory, but unfortunately, Kovalchuk joined in time for a total f***ing sideshow and complete self-brainwashing of how to play defense as a whole.

I'm also indifferent on whether he stays or goes at this point. Would be nice to unlock a roster spot for youth, but Kovy entertains me too. I don't care about his salary/cap, that's not hurting us in any way at this point, and it's right in line with what 50-60 point UFAs would get anyway. I think my thing is just as far as expecations go, he pretty much nailed mine.

 

[BigKing]

Kovlachuk and Kopitar looked like oil and water right off the hop. Even the pre-season games were brutal.

Let's just play devil's advocate on the start to his season:

- you can't just extrapolate that out over 82 games.
- no surprise that an older player would be better at the start of the year than as the grind goes on
- Alex Iafallo had nine points in seven games last year so hot streaks happen

I really wanted it to work, but it didn't. Could it still work? Sure, on a personal achievement level for the player but it isn't going to do this team any favors in the grand scheme of things.

It's just funny to me that there is still so much complaining about WD's treatment of the guy when Kovalchuk is irrelevant when 11/8/32 are putting up the years that they did. Who cares at this point? The only thing we should worry about with Kovalchuk now is if they can get anything for him and how soon can it happen? I say that while wishing him nothing but the best.

While I rag on a big Blake misstep, let me just say that the Kempe signing is nice. Blake continues to do good work since the Muzzin trade. Hope it continues.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Kovlachuk and Kopitar looked like oil and water right off the hop. Even the pre-season games were brutal.

Let's just play devil's advocate on the start to his season:

- you can't just extrapolate that out over 82 games.
- no surprise that an older player would be better at the start of the year than as the grind goes on
- Alex Iafallo had nine points in seven games last year so hot streaks happen

I really wanted it to work, but it didn't. Could it still work? Sure, on a personal achievement level for the player but it isn't going to do this team any favors in the grand scheme of things.

It's just funny to me that there is still so much complaining about WD's treatment of the guy when Kovalchuk is irrelevant when 11/8/32 are putting up the years that they did. Who cares at this point? The only thing we should worry about with Kovalchuk now is if they can get anything for him and how soon can it happen? I say that while wishing him nothing but the best.

While I rag on a big Blake misstep, let me just say that the Kempe signing is nice. Blake continues to do good work since the Muzzin trade. Hope it continues.

Far as I understand the resentment was WD was hurting his presumed value at the deadline.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

If the Kings are gonna tank this season to get another high draft pick, they’ll need to trade Kovi as soon as they can. He is money in the shootout. Might cost us a few points by winning some of those contests. Every point counts!

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

If the Kings are gonna tank this season to get another high draft pick, they’ll need to trade Kovi as soon as they can. He is money in the shootout. Might cost us a few points by winning some of those contests. Every point counts!

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Quit bringing facts to my rant! Putting all your plans in how a ping pong ball bounces is crazy, but you still need to play the percentages. Worst record gives you the highest chance of getting the #1 pick. Obviously, it doesn’t work out that way every time.

 

[BigKing]

Far as I understand the resentment was WD was hurting his presumed value at the deadline.

Maybe. I think it is a lot more of thinking the guy is not too far off from where he was when he left the NHL which is a case of ignoring his actual play and being enamored with the few flashes of skill and the desire for him to be great.

I mean, this Board lost its collective shit over him riding a stationary bike after a game and we are still getting workout vids of him. There is a large desire for him to be awesome: I get it since I wanted him to be awesome as well. He wasn't and I believe it is because he has lost a step or two and not simply due to bad coaching while some chalk it up to bad coaching and an anti-Russian conspiracy theory. The reality is a little bit of both but I feel it leans more to age catching up with him v. just being misused. He was atrocious outside the offensive zone and, to be honest, he biffed it a lot in the offensive zone as well. For me, that is where the lost step or two comes in to play since I feel the younger Kovalchuk would have buried more of the chances old Kovy saw last year.

Still money in the SO though because he has all the time in the world but he isn't as sharp when the game is moving fast. Can still pot 20 though but needs to be used efficiently. I think he wants to eat minutes though on a top line which will be a net negative in the end due to his shortcomings on defense. He should get all of the PP time he can handle and be used smartly at even strength, i.e. offensive zone starts and smart match-ups at home with last line change.

That trade deadline value would definitely be "perceived". Nobody wanted to give him three years so taking him at the last TDL would mean the acquiring team was on the hook for that 3rd year nobody wanted to sign up for to begin with. Now, I know the response will be "retained salary" but even $3MM isn't necessarily exciting for the 20-21 season.

 

[Mats26]

The way I see the biggest positive in getting Kovy is that it meant we didn't spend the rumored assets to get Pacioretty.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If the Kings are gonna tank this season to get another high draft pick, they’ll need to trade Kovi as soon as they can. He is money in the shootout. Might cost us a few points by winning some of those contests. Every point counts!

The good thing with Kovalchuk is that he has no signing bonus on July 1st, 2020, and he's only going to get $4.25m actual dollars next year. Those things make him easier to deal after this season. The bad part is that he gets to pick 7 teams to be traded to. Assuming he doesn't go back to the KHL, and assuming the 7 teams he would want to go to are good, those things will make him more difficult to trade. He's here for at least 1 more year, and only then will someone maybe take a chance on a 37 year old winger, and that's only if he's productive this year.

Even after the last lottery, people are still worried about a few extra wins here or there? I don't think that's a huge thing we have to worry about. The current lottery really does cancel out the significant benefit of tanking. If Kovalchuk gets to smile a couple times this year, enjoy it. He's an old man still doing what he loves to do.

 

[bland]

Kovlachuk and Kopitar looked like oil and water right off the hop. Even the pre-season games were brutal.

Let's just play devil's advocate on the start to his season:

- you can't just extrapolate that out over 82 games.
- no surprise that an older player would be better at the start of the year than as the grind goes on
- Alex Iafallo had nine points in seven games last year so hot streaks happen

I really wanted it to work, but it didn't. Could it still work? Sure, on a personal achievement level for the player but it isn't going to do this team any favors in the grand scheme of things.

It's just funny to me that there is still so much complaining about WD's treatment of the guy when Kovalchuk is irrelevant when 11/8/32 are putting up the years that they did. Who cares at this point? The only thing we should worry about with Kovalchuk now is if they can get anything for him and how soon can it happen? I say that while wishing him nothing but the best.

While I rag on a big Blake misstep, let me just say that the Kempe signing is nice. Blake continues to do good work since the Muzzin trade. Hope it continues.

That pairing was never going to work, and some of us spent loads of time explaining why both here and elsewhere.

Kopitar is unique among centers in that he piles up assists while not being a "playmaker". He is like an option quarterback who needs players very close to him as he holds the puck as long as possible, drawing defenders to him before he dishes. His offense comes largely from attrition, and it requires wingers that can play off of him at close distances. Its why so many of his points are secondary assists - he is a facilitator, not a playmaker.

Kovalchuk is most definitely not that player. He won't put in that close knit cycle work and wants to present himself as an outlet. Both do their best work with the puck and aren't especially effective off of it.

Thing is, Blake should have known this. Perhaps he thought of Kovalchuk playing alongside a healthy Vilardi, whose style is a much better fit.

And i don't blame Desjardins one damn bit. If you are going to be integrating young players into a lineup bent towards the future, the last thing you need is a primadonna not pulling his weight in all of the areas that you are trying to teach to a bunch of impressionable kids. I am certain he knew he had no future in LA beyond a few months, and i have zero doubt that Willie was going rogue here. Benching Kovalchuk had to be coming from above.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Like Phaneuf, Kovalchuk is a miss by Blake whose bill will take time to come due. I think it’s a coin toss at this point as to whether Carter or IK is the next buyout.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The #1 goal of the Kings and TMac should be to pump up everybody's numbers in order to trade them. The only player who would suffer in a more open, up tempo system is Quick. Wait, and Forbort.

 

[kingsfan28]

If the Kings are gonna tank this season to get another high draft pick, they’ll need to trade Kovi as soon as they can. He is money in the shootout. Might cost us a few points by winning some of those contests. Every point counts!

Yeah, because finishing in the bottom 3 worked out so well last year. expect NJ to win the lottery again even though they'll finish in 20th place.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I feel like NJ is going to make the playoffs but land another 1st round pick from a team just outside the playoffs and THAT pick will win the lottery even as NJD wins the Cup!

Sort of like a pseudo-Avs

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Finally, a coach who is going to hold some of these crybabies accountable of their effort.

I think Tyler’s got to put himself in that position, not me. He’s going to have to come in and have a real good training camp, he’s going to have to lead the team in practice. He was quite vocal about practices and the commitment level at them, so I’m going to look at him to lead and to push the team and push himself as an individual.

And it is refreshing to hear the organization even admit that their camp and preseason just started off poorly, something a few posters on here severely downplayed.

Reporter: Rob said last year’s camp wasn’t good. What would a good camp look like to you?
Todd McLellan: A good camp will have some pace, there will have some passion in it, it won’t just be going through the motions.

 

[kingsfan28]

Like Phaneuf, Kovalchuk is a miss by Blake whose bill will take time to come due. I think it’s a coin toss at this point as to whether Carter or IK is the next buyout.

Kovy, when being played actually produced, Dion did not. I don't see either of them being bought out, too much cash AEG is not going to want to give out for nothing.